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Old 02-20-2018, 04:34 PM   #81
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Great stuff, and all 1 part foam, is not corrosive to metal. This is a common misnomer. If it traps moisture during expansion that moisture certianly does corrode, hence the common misconception and my cautionary statements.

The area i initially sprayed were closed on 3 sides, with the top most area open. Each section was ~ 1'H × 2'L × 2.5"W. The foam expanded to fill the area without any buckling. It also cured to a crisp stiff finish as far as observation allowed.

I have since continued building wall height and foaming accordingly, but will stab a long length of metal strip down in one to test the foams cure at depth and let you know.

So far it is indeed perfect for this use.

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Old 02-20-2018, 05:42 PM   #82
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I've also used canned foam in closed areas. It did expand fully and it did cure very well. I've tested it multiple times by inserting an icepick size rod into the foam. There were no cavities.

I shot foam in and it squirted back out through other holes indicating the cavity was full. Wherever all those mandrels from the rivets went, they won't be rattling in this bus. I've even used canned foam like caulk by squirting it into gaps. A bread knife cleans up the excess easily the next day. It doesn't load up on water even when a cut edge is exposed to the elements. I've had all good luck with it, except if you try to store cans of foam they won't work several months later. The foam is still good but the nozzels go bad within a few months.

OP, I'm curious to know if you were aware of the foam kits you can order through the mail? The kits are expensive but you can shoot your bus interior pretty quickly once you've got it all taped off. You've got to be getting a sore finger by now with all those cans.
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Old 02-20-2018, 05:53 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xalv36963 View Post
Great stuff, and all 1 part foam, is not corrosive to metal. This is a common misnomer. If it traps moisture during expansion that moisture certianly does corrode, hence the common misconception and my cautionary statements.

The area i initially sprayed were closed on 3 sides, with the top most area open. Each section was ~ 1'H × 2'L × 2.5"W. The foam expanded to fill the area without any buckling. It also cured to a crisp stiff finish as far as observation allowed.

I have since continued building wall height and foaming accordingly, but will stab a long length of metal strip down in one to test the foams cure at depth and let you know.

So far it is indeed perfect for this use.

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Common misnomer or not?
I do many various types of steel piping for a living and have been sent to fix many piping wall penetrations that were foamed?
The ones that were insulated and caulked properly were 40 plus years old the spray foamed ranged from 10-15 years old.
Don't know what brand was used so I can't blame a name cause there are many.
But I can say that in what I have dealt with the steel pipe is ate up everywhere along the length of where the foam touched it (wall,floor penetrations 8"-4") but the old school ROXUL,rock wool,plain old fibre glass stuff caulked lasted as longer and some about the same depending on the installers sealant work.
Just check/read the manufacturers MSDS that won't tell you what we are discussing but will keep you safe and then call them specifically and ask to talk to an engineer. Yes they have engineers that will tell you what it is compatible with.
Loos like you have already done your research on compatible materials and are set in your ways.
Good luck and hope you have fun.
Please let us know what it's like in 5-10 years?
I guess you are the great stuff theory participant?
Please don't keep us in the blind.
You know inquiring minds want to know the Truth.
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Old 02-20-2018, 06:07 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jolly Roger bus 223 View Post
Common misnomer or not?
I do many various types of steel piping for a living and have been sent to fix many piping wall penetrations that were foamed?
The ones that were insulated and caulked properly were 40 plus years old the spray foamed ranged from 10-15 years old.
Don't know what brand was used so I can't blame a name cause there are many.
But I can say that in what I have dealt with the steel pipe is ate up everywhere along the length of where the foam touched it (wall,floor penetrations 8"-4") but the old school ROXUL,rock wool,plain old fibre glass stuff caulked lasted as longer and some about the same depending on the installers sealant work.
Just check/read the manufacturers MSDS that won't tell you what we are discussing but will keep you safe and then call them specifically and ask to talk to an engineer. Yes they have engineers that will tell you what it is compatible with.
Loos like you have already done your research on compatible materials and are set in your ways.
Good luck and hope you have fun.
Please let us know what it's like in 5-10 years?
I guess you are the great stuff theory participant?
Please don't keep us in the blind.
You know inquiring minds want to know the Truth.
I promise to keep you updated, but truth be told if in 10+ years i need to do significant repairs to some sheet metal that'll justify the up front cost savings in my mind.

I have indeed consulted the MSDS for both "great stuff big gap filler" and an off brand i cant remember the name of and as far as can be told steel is fine.

I respect your industry experience and posit the trapping of moisture against steel by improper application of 1 part foam as the recognized culprit of the corrosion youve routinely observed - just like many products proper application is vital.

Thank you for your advice and concern for my bus freind

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Old 02-21-2018, 04:26 PM   #85
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Just an update the off brand i tried, "fill & seal", works SIGNIFICANTLY better than Great Stuff big gap filler. It expands much more filling 2x area for 75% cost.

If i had tried this product 1st my costs wouldve been even less, perhaps around $100 for wall insulation.

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Old 02-21-2018, 09:53 PM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jolly Roger bus 223 View Post
Common misnomer or not?
I do many various types of steel piping for a living and have been sent to fix many piping wall penetrations that were foamed?
The ones that were insulated and caulked properly were 40 plus years old the spray foamed ranged from 10-15 years old.
Don't know what brand was used so I can't blame a name cause there are many.
But I can say that in what I have dealt with the steel pipe is ate up everywhere along the length of where the foam touched it (wall,floor penetrations 8"-4") but the old school ROXUL,rock wool,plain old fibre glass stuff caulked lasted as longer and some about the same depending on the installers sealant work.
Just check/read the manufacturers MSDS that won't tell you what we are discussing but will keep you safe and then call them specifically and ask to talk to an engineer. Yes they have engineers that will tell you what it is compatible with.
Loos like you have already done your research on compatible materials and are set in your ways.
Good luck and hope you have fun.
Please let us know what it's like in 5-10 years?
I guess you are the great stuff theory participant?
Please don't keep us in the blind.
You know inquiring minds want to know the Truth.
Seems like if the metal were primed first the foam wouldn't be in contact with the metal and would resolve this issue. Thoughts? I certainly don't like the idea of my insulation eating my bus!
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Old 02-21-2018, 09:58 PM   #87
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Yes, a good coat of rustoleum is a very good idea, and offsets any potential for problems

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Old 02-28-2018, 12:13 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jolly Roger bus 223 View Post
Common misnomer or not?
I do many various types of steel piping for a living and have been sent to fix many piping wall penetrations that were foamed?
The ones that were insulated and caulked properly were 40 plus years old the spray foamed ranged from 10-15 years old.
Don't know what brand was used so I can't blame a name cause there are many.
But I can say that in what I have dealt with the steel pipe is ate up everywhere along the length of where the foam touched it (wall,floor penetrations 8"-4") but the old school ROXUL,rock wool,plain old fibre glass stuff caulked lasted as longer and some about the same depending on the installers sealant work.
Just check/read the manufacturers MSDS that won't tell you what we are discussing but will keep you safe and then call them specifically and ask to talk to an engineer. Yes they have engineers that will tell you what it is compatible with.
Loos like you have already done your research on compatible materials and are set in your ways.
Good luck and hope you have fun.
Please let us know what it's like in 5-10 years?
I guess you are the great stuff theory participant?
Please don't keep us in the blind.
You know inquiring minds want to know the Truth.
What do you think about using it in an open area where the metal was coated with Rust-Oleum first? Did any of the buildings where you saw issues have a coating on the metal? Almost none of them do in my (very limited) experience.

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Old 02-28-2018, 02:02 PM   #89
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As an update, the great stuff i put in my walls finished expanding.

It expanded enough to remove all the wood planks i had put up to form it in place, jutting inward about 4" past the line.

If i were to do this again id use the same product, but apply it to the steel wall directly letting it cure completely before doing any interior wall work.

The foam itself is nice and dense, with almost no voids. Just needs to be trimmed down some.

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Old 02-28-2018, 02:41 PM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xalv36963 View Post
Just an update the off brand i tried, "fill & seal", works SIGNIFICANTLY better than Great Stuff big gap filler. It expands much more filling 2x area for 75% cost.

If i had tried this product 1st my costs wouldve been even less, perhaps around $100 for wall insulation.
Dow Fill & Seal is an open cell foam, which allows moisture penetration and doesn't have as good an R value per inch of thickness. Most of the knowledgable recommendations I have read for our application say closed cell is best. I haven't done mine yet, but unless I read something that changes my mind, I will go with closed cell.
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Old 02-28-2018, 02:47 PM   #91
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There is another name for "Open Cell Foam".

A sponge.

Filling your walls with sponges is a bad idea.

Stick with all closed cell.
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Old 04-16-2018, 11:33 PM   #92
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There is another name for "Open Cell Foam".

A sponge.

Filling your walls with sponges is a bad idea.

Stick with all closed cell.
So I just read about the working temperatures of different insulation options and I am a little concerned that XPS which is what I planned to use on my floor, is thermoplastic above 165. If I park the bus in the summer in the sun, I can see the inside getting to 165 pretty easily. I have the white reflective coating on the roof and if I were going to leave it in the sun on purpose for a while I might put the sun shades up, but what if it were parked in an airport parking lot for days in say, Phoenix? The floor should be less hot than the ceiling area, so perhaps it won't ever get that hot?
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Old 04-16-2018, 11:50 PM   #93
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Rockwool is used in hydroponics because it will hold a ton of water. It's great at wicking and holding water
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Old 05-20-2018, 11:46 PM   #94
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Thanks for the info! Im out in sarasota in the process of treating some rust but will definitely be interested in contacting your guy in the near future to get some insulation sprayed in !
Thanks again!
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Old 07-20-2019, 06:34 AM   #95
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This is an awesome thread and your exploding can sounds like something I would do, ( by accident ). Glad you weren’t hurt and I laughed my a%$$ off.
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Old 07-20-2019, 09:41 AM   #96
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Rockwool is used in hydroponics because it will hold a ton of water. It's great at wicking and holding water
Rockwool insulation is impregnated with oil to improve its water resistance. Here is a how it's made video on the stuff:

Check out 3:25 for a demonstration of its water resistance.
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Old 07-20-2019, 09:55 AM   #97
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I think rock wool is a terrible idea..as is pretty much all sheet or loose insulation. The closed cell sf sprays against the wall to seal them In and leaves no air gaps that can hold moisture,mold,dust ect. Closed cell is the only way to go in my opinion.everything else is just experimentation with the risk of having to pull it apart and do it all again. Save yr pennies and do it the right way.Just my2˘
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Old 07-20-2019, 01:01 PM   #98
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Rockwool insulation is impregnated with oil to improve its water resistance. Here is a how it's made video on the stuff:

Check out 3:25 for a demonstration of its water resistance.
sure an improvement over the old style rockwool that was produced in very loose bats - seems to me there were some safety concerns about the rockwool produced in the 40's and 50's - I don't remember what they were, but possibly about breathing the fibers
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Old 07-20-2019, 01:03 PM   #99
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Easily ignited, prolly.
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Old 07-20-2019, 01:58 PM   #100
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no not easilly ignighted.
used in all commercial construction UL RATED and tested in all firestop fireproofing systems.
very water resistant but not waterproof overtime
extremely fire resistant.
but as an open cell insulation it needs thickness without being compressed to make its effective rated R value
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