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04-29-2022, 02:53 AM
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#1
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Mini-Skoolie
Join Date: Apr 2022
Posts: 68
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Help me decide.
Im trying to decide between two buses.
1. '94 chevrolet/blue bird 8 window 366 chevy motor and allison at545 trans this has been sitting a while but has 93k miles
2. '99 international 3800 blue bird 7 window with dt466e unknown trans. Great service record, tires, inspection etc but has 161k miles.
My two concerns are how mechanical work will the chevy need after sitting. How expensive/complicated will the dt466e to repair/maintain compared to the chevy
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04-29-2022, 03:29 PM
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#2
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Skoolie
Join Date: Oct 2021
Location: Peru. IN
Posts: 184
Year: 1992
Coachwork: Collins
Chassis: NB18FD Oshkosh
Engine: 5.9 Cummins
Rated Cap: 18,500
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I would take the IHC in a heartbeat. It most likely has a 2000 allison trans. That gives you 5 or 6 speed trans with lockup converter. Depending on the programing in the TCM. The 545 of the other bus is a non-lockup converter without OD in the trans. The DT466 will get better milage than the gasser will.
Both engines are electronic controlled. Both will require a scanner of some type. The DT466 might require a heavy truck shop to scan. I am not sure on the chevy. It might be ODB2 so any scanner works, to some extent.
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04-29-2022, 03:40 PM
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#3
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Eustis FLORIDA
Posts: 23,829
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Freighliner FS65
Engine: Cat 3126
Rated Cap: 15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Desertsparky
Im trying to decide between two buses.
1. '94 chevrolet/blue bird 8 window 366 chevy motor and allison at545 trans this has been sitting a while but has 93k miles
2. '99 international 3800 blue bird 7 window with dt466e unknown trans. Great service record, tires, inspection etc but has 161k miles.
My two concerns are how mechanical work will the chevy need after sitting. How expensive/complicated will the dt466e to repair/maintain compared to the chevy
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a 99 7 window with a 466 is almost surely the same 545 as the gas engine bus.
That said I'd go for the diesel. Good resale value. 161k isn't bad. How many hours on it?
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04-29-2022, 04:43 PM
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#4
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Mini-Skoolie
Join Date: Apr 2022
Posts: 68
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I have the vin but cant seem to get info for trans and unfortunatly it is a 5 hour drive to go look for myself. Not sure on hours.
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04-29-2022, 05:16 PM
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#5
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Swansboro,NC
Posts: 3,125
Year: 86
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Ford B700
Engine: 8.2
Rated Cap: 60 bodies
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5 hours away is not that bad to look at a possible investment that is going to need work after you purchase regardless of which bus.
maybe try to schedule a mobile mechanic in the area to meet you there and look over the workings while you look around the body chassis.
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04-29-2022, 05:19 PM
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#6
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Bus Geek
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 19,850
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilipE
I would take the IHC in a heartbeat. It most likely has a 2000 allison trans. That gives you 5 or 6 speed trans with lockup converter. Depending on the programing in the TCM. The 545 of the other bus is a non-lockup converter without OD in the trans. The DT466 will get better milage than the gasser will.
Both engines are electronic controlled. Both will require a scanner of some type. The DT466 might require a heavy truck shop to scan. I am not sure on the chevy. It might be ODB2 so any scanner works, to some extent.
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allison 1000 / 2000 was not released until mid year 2000, there were plenty of low-spec 466E's sold with AT545's.. the higher HP 466E got a 643.. and the MD3060 was available also for those..
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04-29-2022, 05:47 PM
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#7
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 583
Year: 1992
Coachwork: Bluebird Mini-Bird 24'
Chassis: Chevy P30
Engine: Chevy 6.2L Diesel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Desertsparky
Im trying to decide between two buses.
1. '94 chevrolet/blue bird 8 window 366 chevy motor and allison at545 trans this has been sitting a while but has 93k miles
2. '99 international 3800 blue bird 7 window with dt466e unknown trans. Great service record, tires, inspection etc but has 161k miles.
My two concerns are how mechanical work will the chevy need after sitting. How expensive/complicated will the dt466e to repair/maintain compared to the chevy
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I'd take the DT466 (even if it is an "E") over a gasser any day of the week.
93K on a gas motor--even for that block, is 1/3 or more of it's lifespan, compared to 161K on a motor that is known for a million miles... yeah, man... I don't think it's really a choice. Spend some money and go over it well, and do the more expensive but less frequent maintenance on it and you should be gold.
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04-29-2022, 05:50 PM
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#8
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Eustis FLORIDA
Posts: 23,829
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Freighliner FS65
Engine: Cat 3126
Rated Cap: 15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Albatross
I'd take the DT466 (even if it is an "E") over a gasser any day of the week.
93K on a gas motor--even for that block, is 1/3 or more of it's lifespan, compared to 161K on a motor that is known for a million miles... yeah, man... I don't think it's really a choice. Spend some money and go over it well, and do the more expensive but less frequent maintenance on it and you should be gold.
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agreed. Bud I'd disagree on this- the DT is not a million mile motor and especially in a school bus.
Its a good engine capable of a lot more than 160. I'd buy one with 250 or so if well kept. But in a school bus they're usually well beat by 350k. The good thing about a DT is you can in-frame it. But if the timing covers ever need to be replaced that's a huge horrible job.
Not to poo on the DT. Its one of the best engines available in a school bus.
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04-29-2022, 06:11 PM
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#9
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Bus Geek
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 19,850
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EastCoastCB
agreed. Bud I'd disagree on this- the DT is not a million mile motor and especially in a school bus.
Its a good engine capable of a lot more than 160. I'd buy one with 250 or so if well kept. But in a school bus they're usually well beat by 350k. The good thing about a DT is you can in-frame it. But if the timing covers ever need to be replaced that's a huge horrible job.
Not to poo on the DT. Its one of the best engines available in a school bus.
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100%.. school bus life is considered SEVERE duty for a drivetrain... due to all the starts / stops, cold to hot cycles (some climates the engine barely warms up before its put away)..
while I love the Chevy 366 and ot was an excellent school bus engine.. a world traveller its not.. sure you could take it across the country and it would do fine (but slow).. however its longevity is in its ability to handle the stop and go and cold / hot cycles better than a diesel.. ie in town travelling..
a diesel 466 is a far better engine for highway travelling and mountainness travel... a diesel doesnt care if you put your foot to the floor climbing a hill.. as long as you dont lug it, it will get you there... gasoline engines hate being run on the floor for more than a short time...
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04-29-2022, 08:48 PM
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#10
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Bus Nut
Join Date: May 2006
Location: mid Mo.
Posts: 942
Year: 1976
Coachwork: bluebird
Chassis: F33695
Engine: 427 chevy converted to 466
Rated Cap: 84
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high hours engines
The C7 I pulled out of the 2005 BB bus had 8500 hours and 255,000 miles on it and ran great. They had got it hot and cracked the head so I got another head, (cylinders and pistons looked great, oil pressure good) had the injectors rebuilt and put it in my service truck, runs perfect, starts perfect and very little blow by. Now this is supposed to be a 300,000 mile motor but I think this one will go more unless I screw something up. I always put the troublesome parts in new on a swap like this. New air compressor, water pump, $800 worth GMC coolant hoses (no auto parts store stuff), $400 fan clutch, alt, dual disc clutch with TO bearing, oil lines, power steering hose, belt and idler, starter, virtually anything that will shut you down. The one thing I didn't change was the block heater....guess what's leaking. I chose to buy a motor and renew it (took a year) so I wouldn't be down for weeks or months waiting to get machine shop work done. It took a week to change the engines out, I can't be down for any time at all because of the lost revenue and mad customers.
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04-29-2022, 11:01 PM
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#11
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Mini-Skoolie
Join Date: Apr 2022
Posts: 68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sportyrick
The C7 I pulled out of the 2005 BB bus had 8500 hours and 255,000 miles on it and ran great. They had got it hot and cracked the head so I got another head, (cylinders and pistons looked great, oil pressure good) had the injectors rebuilt and put it in my service truck, runs perfect, starts perfect and very little blow by. Now this is supposed to be a 300,000 mile motor but I think this one will go more unless I screw something up. I always put the troublesome parts in new on a swap like this. New air compressor, water pump, $800 worth GMC coolant hoses (no auto parts store stuff), $400 fan clutch, alt, dual disc clutch with TO bearing, oil lines, power steering hose, belt and idler, starter, virtually anything that will shut you down. The one thing I didn't change was the block heater....guess what's leaking. I chose to buy a motor and renew it (took a year) so I wouldn't be down for weeks or months waiting to get machine shop work done. It took a week to change the engines out, I can't be down for any time at all because of the lost revenue and mad customers.
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Im a self employeed electrician so I can relate to that.
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04-30-2022, 10:47 AM
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#12
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Jun 2021
Location: Baja often, Oregon frequently
Posts: 464
Year: 1996
Coachwork: Our hot little grubbies...
Chassis: Ford CF8000 ExpeditionVehicle
Engine: Cummins 505ci mechanical
Rated Cap: Five Heelers
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Before I can offer an opinion, I need to see your RequirementsStatement:
* How many souls aboard?
* Full-time live-aboard, a few weekends annually?
* Terrain, weather?
* Budget for time and money?
* Experience?
.
As an example, we scribbled our RequirementsStatement on a brown-paper grocery-bag.
Looking at our inventory of needs, we quickly realized the type of vehicle, the size of that vehicle, the engine and trans of that vehicle, tire size... The Whole Nine Months.
.
.
Another example of our RequirementsStatement:
About four years ago, we decided to quit nomading to settle in one area.
Using our well-tested -- and handy! -- Brown-Paper Grocery-Bag System©®, we quickly realized the people we need to meet, and the places we might meet them.
.
With our backgrounds in rustic rural farms, we went to the first farmers market... and the first vendors (the editor looking over my shoulder claims it was the second bunch...) offered us a gig.
.
Intention.
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04-30-2022, 12:55 PM
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#13
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Mini-Skoolie
Join Date: Apr 2022
Posts: 68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LargeMargeInBaja
Before I can offer an opinion, I need to see your RequirementsStatement:
* How many souls aboard?
* Full-time live-aboard, a few weekends annually?
* Terrain, weather?
* Budget for time and money?
* Experience?
.
As an example, we scribbled our RequirementsStatement on a brown-paper grocery-bag.
Looking at our inventory of needs, we quickly realized the type of vehicle, the size of that vehicle, the engine and trans of that vehicle, tire size... The Whole Nine Months.
.
.
Another example of our RequirementsStatement:
About four years ago, we decided to quit nomading to settle in one area.
Using our well-tested -- and handy! -- Brown-Paper Grocery-Bag System©®, we quickly realized the people we need to meet, and the places we might meet them.
.
With our backgrounds in rustic rural farms, we went to the first farmers market... and the first vendors (the editor looking over my shoulder claims it was the second bunch...) offered us a gig.
.
Intention.
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For the technical: 2 adults 4 kids. Weekend trips and hopefully a bigger twoish week trip once a year. Transmission doesnt matter to me. Manual is fine. The two real deciding factors are it has to fit in a space that is no longer than 34' 8". We know thats tough with layout for 6 but have done a lot of different plans based on the sizes we have found.
Innitial budget is going to be small. Around 8-10k which I realize isnt going to get us a completed project. Im hoping for a decent mechanical running bus and AC haha.
We live in phx area so its going to me mountains no matter which way we go.
Non technical: we have lost both my parents in the last two years (covid, and then effects of long covid for the other), my father in laws cancer is no longer in remission. We need to get out in nature more with our kids. We have been reminded again and again how short our time is in life. Tent camping is wonderful but Id love a more comfortable way to be out there...and a potty...even a home made composting one.
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05-04-2022, 08:19 PM
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#14
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: East TN
Posts: 324
Year: 1999
Chassis: International
Engine: T444E
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My vote is for the diesel generally speaking but especially with mountains in every direction. The only positive for gas is that they are generally cheaper to work on and repair. Those are low miles for a diesel provided it has been taken care of.
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05-04-2022, 08:51 PM
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#15
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: May 2018
Location: topeka kansas
Posts: 1,815
Year: 1954
Coachwork: wayne
Chassis: old f500- new 2005 f-450
Engine: cummins 12 valve
Rated Cap: 20? five rows of 4?
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what i did
I chose older bus. Because of non electronics. I think the mechanical injection engines are more fault tolerant. The transmission is not so desirable, but I am confident I have the needed skills and resources to remedy that.
tc2000 current weight 15,000 lbs 25' bumper to bumper. 1994, cummins 5.9 and at545 transmission. seating for 10 three bench seats and four captains chairs. the captains are for fat adults.
one black tank, toilet, sink, shower. two roof mount rv type air conditioners, two ceiling mount engine driven ac units. two 45 quart 12volt compressor portable, chest type refrigerators, camping chairs, tents, propane cook stove, propane griddle, lots of flashlights and all kinds of other stuff... no real sleeping beds inside. when we have to, some sleep in hotel room, and some sleep in the bus on the bench seats.
it is a party on wheels. the kids make as much noise as the engine and wind.
william
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