Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 04-02-2017, 06:06 PM   #1
Skoolie
 
RC000E's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 155
Year: 2000
Coachwork: Ford
Chassis: E350 #Vanlife
Engine: 6.8 V10
Rated Cap: 15
I tried to sort this out, but I need reinforcements. Bus won't start...ughhh

1998 Thomas SafTLiner, 3126 CAT, 3060 trans. Bus ran perfectly when pulled into the shop, never a hiccup. Removed the stop sign, seats, flooring, roof hatches, now it won't start. There is a buzzer, but it's not the emergency buzzer.

I've checked all the doors, emergency locks, etc. All the emergency handles and openings actuate a different buzzer. Regardless, I've checked and rechecked. There are no vandal locks (per search), so that's not the issue.

The side sign has no pressure switch or indicator it was open/shut. Just wires for the lights. I've attempted to start the bus from the rear pushing in the rear door interlock, ignition on switch and push to start...does nothing.

Bus barely sat at all from time I removed interior and sign before I found it wouldn't start. I feel it's highly unlikely to have a bad starter or solenoid by coincidence, definitely seems like an interrupt. When I turn the key to on position, multiple clicks occur in side panel and rear, just as it did when it started before.

I'm a bit perplexed. I've looked at the video of the interlock bypass and mine doesn't have the same wiring added. I've searched for some wiring diagrams, as I'm very capabe electrically (built custom fuel injection systems for racecars from scratch, etc).

The bus is new to me, but here is some small things I noticed. 1. Step near door light goes out when I attempt to start (assume this is normal). 2. The buzzer has quit entirely on a couple of occasions, but still no start. 3. My bus has an additional emissions monitoring system added by a company name Donaldson. It has a driver panel added light that indicates issues, overheating, etc. I'm unable to determine if this is actuating the buzzer. The buzzer that is actuated is old and appears original though, buried under a mass of wire in the front side panel.

I need some assist here. What am I missin? Problem is, I may have an unexpected cross country move necessary and may have to sell this bus unfortunately (not happy). 1998 Thomas, zero rust at all, ran perfect, rear engine with belly storage.
RC000E is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2017, 06:12 PM   #2
Skoolie
 
RC000E's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 155
Year: 2000
Coachwork: Ford
Chassis: E350 #Vanlife
Engine: 6.8 V10
Rated Cap: 15
Currently buzzer isn't going off upon retry...no buzzers.

Key on initiates 4 clicks in succession, each progressively closer to the rear of the bus and it cycles that sequence 2 x in a row (8 clicks total). I recall this being normal when it ran. When I then turn to start, I hear a solenoid click in the side panel, but no start.
RC000E is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2017, 06:16 PM   #3
Skoolie
 
jctrembly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Terra Alta, WV
Posts: 153
Chassis: Sold
I believe there is a safety interlock on some of these busses. It's been a few years since I drove a full spec school bus.

Check your doors and E exit. If you removed anything look and besure you don't need to bypass a switch.

If your stop light system has been removed there maybe an interlock on that. Without seeing the bus it can be tough to tell for sure. I did a couple of runs with a Thomas RE but not enough to learn the in's and outs.

You should be able to sell that here on the forum for the right price. Sounds like a nice spec bus. What speed does it travel on the interstate?

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk
jctrembly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2017, 06:23 PM   #4
Skoolie
 
RC000E's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 155
Year: 2000
Coachwork: Ford
Chassis: E350 #Vanlife
Engine: 6.8 V10
Rated Cap: 15
I picked it up an Kentucky and drove it 450 miles home, no issues.
RC000E is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2017, 06:26 PM   #5
Skoolie
 
RC000E's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 155
Year: 2000
Coachwork: Ford
Chassis: E350 #Vanlife
Engine: 6.8 V10
Rated Cap: 15
So, here is my panel



This is pointing to the buzzer that is actuating...it seems to come and go, or be off and suddenly come on for no apparent reason. There is no air in the bus, but I've never heard the low air or low oil pressure buzzer, not sure if that's it or not.



The buzzer has two red/black wires to one pin and a light green from the other. Light green goes forward to the front of the bus...trying to track it.
RC000E is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2017, 06:34 PM   #6
Bus Nut
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: iowa
Posts: 344
Year: 1998
Coachwork: bluebird
Chassis: chevy
Engine: 3116 catapillar
Rated Cap: formerly 71 now 2 or 4
find the fuel solenoid and hot wire it to check if it is a switch consider a separate on off switch
mmoore6856 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2017, 06:37 PM   #7
Skoolie
 
jctrembly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Terra Alta, WV
Posts: 153
Chassis: Sold
The bus will start with no air, ideally the air system should be bleed down when you park at the end of the day anyway (at least per CDL training).

Question: does the engine turn over? If not or if slowly you will need to either fully charge the batteries or get a heavy set of jumper cables or two sets of regular car cables and allow a jumper vehical to charge the batteries 10 min prior to cranking it.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk
jctrembly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2017, 06:38 PM   #8
Skoolie
 
jctrembly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Terra Alta, WV
Posts: 153
Chassis: Sold
A low voltage situation can prevent a bus from even turning over. To me this really sounds like an interlock issiue.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk
jctrembly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2017, 06:52 PM   #9
Skoolie
 
RC000E's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 155
Year: 2000
Coachwork: Ford
Chassis: E350 #Vanlife
Engine: 6.8 V10
Rated Cap: 15
Bus batteries are good, I even have a plug in charger on them for periodic maintenance. Power is definitely adequate.

I agree that is sounds like an interrupt, but from what?
RC000E is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2017, 07:24 PM   #10
Bus Crazy
 
sdwarf36's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Moodus, Ct.
Posts: 1,062
Year: 1996
Coachwork: Champion
Chassis: Ford e-450
Engine: 7.3 Powerstroke
Rated Cap: 14
I'd work backwards. Find your starter solenoid. The small wire running to it should be hot when the key is turned. if its not, put power to it to see if it will start. If it does, trace the color back. Thats the most likely place for them to interupt.
__________________
Don't make a fuss-just get on the bus!

my bus build https://www.skoolie.net/gallery/Skoolies/Sped
sdwarf36 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2017, 07:32 PM   #11
Bus Nut
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Pensacola and Crystal River, FL
Posts: 554
Year: 1998
Coachwork: AmTran International
Chassis: 3800
Engine: Navistar 7.6L
You mentioned removing the emergency roof hatches.

What did you do with the wires they had?
DoubleO7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2017, 07:41 PM   #12
Bus Crazy
 
turf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Colorado
Posts: 1,603
Year: 1993
Coachwork: bluebird
Engine: 5.9 Cummins, Allison AT1545
Rated Cap: 2
the 3 usual suspects:

neutral gear selector
interlock
low voltage

you need a battery meter to rule out low voltage. i think clicking indicates no juice. a plug in maintainer doesnt sound like much power.

a low air buzzer would sound as long as you have no air pressure built up. it'll have to start with at least one buzzer going.
__________________
.
Turfmobile Build Thread
turf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2017, 08:43 PM   #13
Bus Geek
 
Robin97396's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Willamina, Oregon
Posts: 6,409
Coachwork: 97 Bluebird TC1000 5.9
I'm also calling the top hatch removal causing the interlock and buzzer. That seems to have been a reoccuring problem this year several times already.
__________________
Robin
Nobody's Business
Robin97396 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2017, 10:34 PM   #14
Skoolie
 
RC000E's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 155
Year: 2000
Coachwork: Ford
Chassis: E350 #Vanlife
Engine: 6.8 V10
Rated Cap: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin97396 View Post
I'm also calling the top hatch removal causing the interlock and buzzer. That seems to have been a reoccuring problem this year several times already.
I suspected this first and foremost and have attempted to even research the company who made them. They each do have two wires running to them, one appears to have voltage with the key in the "on" position and the other has continuity to ground. I initially assumed they'd possibly require that the circuit be connected to allow the bus to start, but splicing the wires at each hatch together didn't make a difference.

Admittedly though, I don't recall there being lights on the hatches, so what would the wiring do other than serve an interlock feature. As is though, with the ends spliced or apart, neither solved the issue.

I also saw the fact that the hatches were labeled as "vents", so I'd felt it'd be surprising to make them disable the starter if they were plainly marketing them as vents also.
RC000E is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2017, 10:37 PM   #15
Skoolie
 
RC000E's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 155
Year: 2000
Coachwork: Ford
Chassis: E350 #Vanlife
Engine: 6.8 V10
Rated Cap: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by turf View Post
the 3 usual suspects:

neutral gear selector
interlock
low voltage

you need a battery meter to rule out low voltage. i think clicking indicates no juice. a plug in maintainer doesnt sound like much power.

a low air buzzer would sound as long as you have no air pressure built up. it'll have to start with at least one buzzer going.
Low voltage is definitely not possible, I've attempted start not only with good batteries, but with a plug in booster on them to be certain. It doesn't even attempted to actuate the starter whatsoever.

On the buzzer, this was my assumption also. If the air is at zero, I'd imagine something would have to be sounding and the bus should start as the brake is set in the rear, it's in neutral, etc.

I am attempting to verify what the buzzer is attached to by tracing the one wire...I'm getting there.
RC000E is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2017, 11:00 PM   #16
Bus Geek
 
Robin97396's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Willamina, Oregon
Posts: 6,409
Coachwork: 97 Bluebird TC1000 5.9
I don't understand how the interlock connection works so my hatch and door buzzers are all still connected. What you did with the wires sounds logical to me. I've read about someone else that did what you did and couldn't start their bus for about a week or more. To me that interlock is a liability just waiting to cause a problem when I least expect it. That system really doesn't have a job anymore.
__________________
Robin
Nobody's Business
Robin97396 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2017, 07:14 AM   #17
Bus Nut
 
superdave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: hills of sw virginia
Posts: 889
Year: 1996
Chassis: thomas
Engine: 8.3 cummins
Rated Cap: 11 window
check the doors , if you have a lock on any of the doors put them in the open position, no doors can be locked when the bus is in use. the safety lock on my 96 hooked up in the electric panel, you could see a wire that went to a post that was cut and spliced into a different color wire, this wire ran to and from a selonoid. cant see it on your pic. but its there. good luck
__________________
living in a bus down by the river.
my build pics
https://www.skoolie.net/forums/membe...albums942.html
superdave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2017, 11:29 AM   #18
Skoolie
 
RC000E's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 155
Year: 2000
Coachwork: Ford
Chassis: E350 #Vanlife
Engine: 6.8 V10
Rated Cap: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by superdave View Post
check the doors , if you have a lock on any of the doors put them in the open position, no doors can be locked when the bus is in use. the safety lock on my 96 hooked up in the electric panel, you could see a wire that went to a post that was cut and spliced into a different color wire, this wire ran to and from a selonoid. cant see it on your pic. but its there. good luck
As I put in the first post, there are no vandal locks on the bus. No inside locks, I've opened all doors from the outside. That's not it.

I do believe this is some kind of interlock, but I'm still in the tracing phase. If I can identify what the buzzer is connected to, I'm hoping I can trace back what's triggering it. I have multiple solenoids in the side panel (2 or 3), so I do know the emergency exit interlock is there. I just need to start multimeter tracing everything and having someone in the driver seat to engage the key in the start position and see what's happening.

Just was hoping someone would say "I see it right there!"...lol
RC000E is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2017, 12:51 PM   #19
Bus Crazy
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Picton,Ont, Can.
Posts: 1,912
Year: 1997
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: GMC
Engine: Cat 3116
Rated Cap: 72
A couple of thoughts for you after viewing that pic where your finger is pointing to the buzzer that's going off.

First thought was OMG look at all the dust collected on just about every terminal in that area as well as very many other areas in that whole panel area.
Perfect conditions for dampness to gather and in effect cause a short circuit thereby allowing the buzzer to buzz and possibly contributing in other ways to your no-start condition.
for those people who insist on playing with roof hatches, emerg hatches, windows etc, you had better have a very darn good idea how those switches work and why they are that way. Most are built with normally open power contacts that don't make contact till you open the hatch etc. Not sure but it signals the driver that the kids might have tampered with something and will not allow the bus to start/run until the issue is found out and corrected. Keeps the kids in the bus in other .words.

Why would anyone alter those devices is beyond me even as a private vehicle.
For the amateur to meddle in this circuitry can be problematic. You just can't leave the wires taped up, coiled up or not connected to the device they were originally connected to. And then you ask how to fix such a problem and get all kinds of suggestions and continue to beat your head.

if you do need to work on this system for any reason, work on one device ata a time and then check that the work you did will still allow the bus to start. If not redo or put back the way it was and see what happens. Never think you can just start disconnect wires to stop a buzzer from buzzing. They are often tied to other relays that affect the starting circuit.
My thinking after seeing all the dust bunnies is good luck on keeping anything running for long trouble free in that bus.

When a person brings their bus home they should disconnect the batteries and take a compressor and blow all that junk out of the panel and a paintbrush is a helpful tool to get at a lot of the dust without disturbing anything. If you do this then you can see other issues of corrosion etc happening and deal with those also. No sense building a bus that won't run.

Ok so a no start condition exists. Does it eve turn over now? You need to tell us more clearly what is done or happening. If it's not turning over start looking at the starter relay and if it is powered up by the key.

So, waiting for a better description of the problem really.
Do the cleanup without fail.
__________________
Question everything!
BlackJohn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2017, 01:11 PM   #20
Bus Crazy
 
turf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Colorado
Posts: 1,603
Year: 1993
Coachwork: bluebird
Engine: 5.9 Cummins, Allison AT1545
Rated Cap: 2
never trust what you think is a good battery or battery connections.

more info please. include voltage from a meter.
__________________
.
Turfmobile Build Thread
turf is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:30 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
×