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Old 06-12-2014, 07:54 AM   #21
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Re: Insulating paint beads: Feedback from REAL people please

I'm going to give you my very unscientific response, please note this is only the opinion of another old fart. I did all of the homework, and read all I could find on the subject. I noted that it is reflective, in my little mind this means that, since it is white and has shiny things in it, it reflects light, mainly sunlight. I had no illusions, or hope that if I painted it on the inside of anything that there would be any measurable or perceived difference. That's not what it was designed for. I considered buying just the beads and mixing them with some locally available paint.

In the end I finally decided to go the whole route using all of their products.This meant two kinds of primer, since part was old paint and part was new aluminum. I don't remember the cost, but all came to somewhere north of $700 including shipping. If I weren't so lazy, I could look it up. I did the prep the way they suggested. I bought an airless sprayer from HF. The primers are a bitch since they are clear and, just slightly thicker than water. I used the clear coat and it was about the same consistency as the primer. The sprayer worked well but, I think if I had it to do over I would roll everything on. It was a bit hard to control thickness. I did my painting in what was the hottest summer we've had in Indiana in years.It didn't work well with masking tape, I found it best to cut along the tape. I ended up putting reflective tape at the color change to cover up the rough line.

Note I didn't take any temperature readings, the daytime temps were hovering around 100, the sun was shining, it was hot. Now for the really scientific part. My bus came from NM with the standard yellow roof. When I was doing the final clean I was walking on the roof with just my socks on, it was almost too hot for my tender feet to stand on. After the coating, when I was putting marker lights back on, I was able to rest my forearms directly on the surface. It was warm, but not remotely hot. Try that on a yellow roof. Inside the bus with the windows closed, I did take a temp reading on the ceiling, it was about the same as outside temp, and still felt hot. With the windows open, if there is any air movement at all it feels about sitting in the shade of a nice tree.


I run at times, 4 computers in my bus, along with a laser printer and a commercial dye sub printer and don't have the luxury of air conditioning. I run extra fans on everything and don't usually have an overheating problem.

Note, all of the white is reflective beaded paint. The surface is rough and feels slightly rubbery to the touch, which makes it a bit hard to clean but, I'm not really known for doing all that much cleaning to the outside of my vehicles.


Do I think it was worth the money spent? yes
Do I think just painting it white would do the same thing? maybe
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Old 06-13-2014, 08:35 AM   #22
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Re: Insulating paint beads: Feedback from REAL people please

I know this is a silly question, and I also know I no longer have my bus. I do not know if the future holds another bus for me but that hasn't dimmed my love for them. In any case the silly question is this: How much do these beads cost? If it's the $55 I've seen thrown around or even $110 for 2 packages, my thought is that I have spent more than that on dumber things in the course of my 40 years.
just sayin' is all.
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Old 06-13-2014, 09:58 AM   #23
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Re: Insulating paint beads: Feedback from REAL people please

Quote:
Originally Posted by Malkieri
I know this is a silly question, and I also know I no longer have my bus. I do not know if the future holds another bus for me but that hasn't dimmed my love for them. In any case the silly question is this: How much do these beads cost? If it's the $55 I've seen thrown around or even $110 for 2 packages, my thought is that I have spent more than that on dumber things in the course of my 40 years.
just sayin' is all.
The 55 dollar price from HyTek is for a 12# package of beads that will handle 5 gallons of whatever paint you're going to use for your next bus. I picked it up to do the body paint.
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Old 06-13-2014, 10:27 AM   #24
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Re: Insulating paint beads: Feedback from REAL people please

Ok.. I've taken it upon myself to figure this out once and for all ;)

I just purchased a bag of the Hytech ceramic beads; enough for 1 gallon of paint. I'll pick up a can of Kool-Seal elastomeric roof coating from Walmart (http://www.walmart.com/ip/Kool-Seal-...ating/17210942). It appears to be very similar to Bus-Kote, but without the ceramic beads.

Here's what I'll be doing:

- Draw a quart of Kool-seal elastomeric roof coating out of the gallon can and mix it with 1/4 of the bag of beads
- Do the same with a batch of standard white paint (probably will end up being Rustoleom/Tremclad white)

I'll cut five pieces of tin roof. I'll paint with and without beads onto four of the pieces. The fifth one will remain as-is (the scientific control?).
Wait for them to dry, put them out into the blazing sun and measure the temperatures.

I just need to know!
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Old 06-13-2014, 10:50 AM   #25
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Re: Insulating paint beads: Feedback from REAL people please

Quote:
Originally Posted by jazty
I'll cut five pieces of tin roof. I'll paint with and without beads onto four of the pieces. The fifth one will remain as-is (the scientific control?).
Wait for them to dry, put them out into the blazing sun and measure the temperatures.

I just need to know!
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Old 06-13-2014, 11:04 AM   #26
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Re: Insulating paint beads: Feedback from REAL people please

Jazty, now your talking! That should get us the answer.
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Old 06-13-2014, 11:05 AM   #27
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Re: Insulating paint beads: Feedback from REAL people please

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scooternj
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazty
I'll cut five pieces of tin roof. I'll paint with and without beads onto four of the pieces. The fifth one will remain as-is (the scientific control?).
Wait for them to dry, put them out into the blazing sun and measure the temperatures.

I just need to know!
Science indeed!
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Old 06-13-2014, 06:32 PM   #28
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Re: Insulating paint beads: Feedback from REAL people please

Oh darn... I'm going to have to buy an IR thermometer now, too
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Old 06-17-2014, 11:34 PM   #29
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Re: Insulating paint beads: Feedback from REAL people please

Jazty,

I'm very interested in how your test turns out, and I have to commend you on your scientific approach. I wonder if you could paint the "control" yellow, to render it more like the "undisturbed" rooftops? Maybe that's gilding the lily, just a thought.
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Old 06-24-2014, 07:43 PM   #30
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Re: Insulating paint beads: Feedback from REAL people please

Any results
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Old 06-24-2014, 08:46 PM   #31
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Re: Insulating paint beads: Feedback from REAL people please

To make this test more realistic, can you do it in Arizona?
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Old 06-24-2014, 09:50 PM   #32
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Re: Insulating paint beads: Feedback from REAL people please

Not yet. The bag of Hytech ceramic beads came in, but the walmart nearby only has the Kool Seal in 5 gallon buckets. I only need 2 gallons, so I'm waiting it out a bit.
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Old 06-24-2014, 10:08 PM   #33
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Re: Insulating paint beads: Feedback from REAL people please

Does the bus kote have the beads in it, or are those bought seperate?
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Old 06-24-2014, 10:11 PM   #34
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Re: Insulating paint beads: Feedback from REAL people please

The Bus Kote has the beads in it already, but I bought them separately to add to Kool Seal which is essentially the same paint base (white elastomeric coating, Energy Star, etc..). This way I can try Kool Seal on its own, then try it mixed with the beads.
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Old 07-08-2014, 09:50 PM   #35
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Re: Insulating paint beads: Feedback from REAL people please

and then what happened??

i'm getting to the point where this is extremely important! and if it turns out i can save a few $$ for other things, that would be good to know!

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Old 07-09-2014, 07:31 AM   #36
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Re: Insulating paint beads: Feedback from REAL people please

Still don't have the paint.. Should be happening soon.
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Old 07-10-2014, 09:59 PM   #37
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Re: Insulating paint beads: Feedback from REAL people please

I'm watching this closely. Thank you for the effort.
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Old 07-14-2014, 06:22 PM   #38
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Re: Insulating paint beads: Feedback from REAL people please

Alright, I made some progress.


This sheet metal will do just fine for testing. It's a piece of the bus ceiling and is the same gauge thickness as the roof. White on one side, black on the other.


Six equal sized pieces cut. 12"x20".


All pieces cleaned and mounted on a frame built of scrap wood. I turned one of the pieces over so we can determine the temperature difference between plain black and white paint.


I picked up 5 US gallons of Henry's Solarflex



Here we have the magic beads. I was really disappointed in the labelling. It up-talks the product a bunch, but contains no useful information about the contents. Specifically weight or volume. I had to dump it all into bowls then measure it back into the bag to find out that it contains 4.25 cups (just over 1 litre). The package says the contents are properly measured for 1 US gallon (3.79 litres) of paint.



Since I only need a small amount of paint for this test run, I mixed 0.5 quarts (473 millilitres) of paint with a bit over 0.5 cups (125 millilitres) of Hytech beads; a ratio of 3.79:1.


Now, the elastomeric paint alone is obviously going to be thinner than elastomeric paint + ceramic beads. As such, I would expect the straight paint to be less effective (less material, thinner thermal-bridge). I wanted to have a test sample that would be about the same thickness as the paint + beads so I whipped up a batch of paint + sawdust using the same ratios.


Here it is all painted up! From bottom to top: 2 coats elastomeric paint + sawdust; 2 coats elastomeric paint + beads; 2 coats elastomeric paint; 4 coats elastomeric paint; black painted side up; off-white painted side up. I'll post some test results at midday when it's good and sunny.
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Old 07-14-2014, 06:35 PM   #39
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Re: Insulating paint beads: Feedback from REAL people please

Quote:
Originally Posted by crazycal
To make this test more realistic, can you do it in Arizona?
Will that actually make any difference? I can't see how.. The difference in temperature should remain the same anywhere on the planet. Let's say, theoretically, that the ceramic beads reduce the temperature of the substrate by 20C while the sunny is beating down at a perpendicular angle. In the north the white panel with beads may be 30C with the sun shining on it. A black panel may be 50C. In the tropics the white panel with beads may be 45C. A black panel may be 65C...
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Old 07-14-2014, 06:43 PM   #40
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Re: Insulating paint beads: Feedback from REAL people please

Oh, quick note on texture.

So far, the nicest texture, in my opinion, is the 4 coats of Henry's paint with no beads or sawdust (surprised?). It is lightly textured and uniform in appearance. The 2 coats of Henry's paint is less even.

The paint with beads doesn't look bad, but you can feel and see the irregularity that the beads impart.

The sawdust is pretty rough since I didn't bother sifting to get only the real fine dust. There are a couple of chunks stuck in it. It actually looks a bit like stucco. If I would have eliminated the bigger chunks it probably wouldn't be all that bad. It's not really practical at any rate, though, since wood absorbs water.
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