Insulating paint beads: Feedback from REAL people please

[jazty]

Originally Posted by IronChariot

Are your sample pieces physically touching each other? That would also be a no-no.

The sample pieces have a small gap between, but even if there were no gap it would only impart an immeasurable difference considering that the temperature range is so low. The cut surfaces are rough and steel (in comparison to other metals) doesn't transfer heat well enough to make much of a difference. If the pieces were a difference of 100s of °C then a large insulating gap would be necessary. Furthermore, I'm measuring the temperature from the center of the pieces.

[IronChariot]

I'm sure you're right re heat transfer. Again, excellent work with the test. I had pretty much bought the hype re the beads, so it's good to have some real data. It always pays to be skeptical.

Do you think something like sand (think something larger than sandbox sand) would work as well as sawdust? I suspect it would work better than sawdust with the paint, but hard to tell if it would work as effectively re temperature. Testing other materials might be a good next step if you are so inclined.

[jazty]

Originally Posted by IronChariot

I'm sure you're right re heat transfer. Again, excellent work with the test. I had pretty much bought the hype re the beads, so it's good to have some real data. It always pays to be skeptical.

Yeh, it was easy to be skeptical after reading Hytech's website. It looks like it was built in the Geocities era and there is no real scientific data on the site, just customer testimonials. "Wow! It works!", but compared to what? A dark red brick wall? Black asphalt shingles? Or competing roof paints? Then, after searching for real-world tests and turning up few it made sense to test for myself.

Here are a couple other tests of products with similar claims. I'm only including a few that actually make sense. As in comparing white paint to white paint + additives:
http://www.amazon.com/review/R1RW7B8...cm_cr_rdp_perm
http://www.cchrc.org/docs/Insulating_Paint_Final.pdf

Originally Posted by IronChariot

Do you think something like sand (think something larger than sandbox sand) would work as well as sawdust? I suspect it would work better than sawdust with the paint, but hard to tell if it would work as effectively re temperature.

I would expect sand to have a similar effect, though it does transfer heat better than sawdust would. It would add considerable surface area, which is probably a contributing factor to the paint + additive effectiveness. It would also provide a non-slip surface for walking about up top I still wouldn't recommend it, though. The nicest option appears to be many layers of roof-paint. You'll end up with a nicer paint job and it works great.

Originally Posted by IronChariot

Testing other materials might be a good next step if you are so inclined.

Nah.. I'm good I found the answer to the question, "Are the Hytech beads anything extraordinary?". The answer is no. Now it's up to the people to decide what to do with that information. Adding them helps a bit, as will any additive to the paint, but thicker paint is the best option in my opinion.

[jazty]

Didn't have any use for the talcum powder that is Hytech ceramic insulating beads, so figured I'd just give it back to the earth... A dramatic gesture, I'm sure

[juliol]

Has anyone try linex paint coating on the roof(white color)? is used for truck beds.
http://www.linexoftucson.com/dealer_sprayon.php

[Ponyracer]

Line X would be great for sealing but it's not reflective. Not sure how much it would help. Now if you had a "leaker" and wanted it for that purpose with a white roof as a side effect then heck ya!

Another one for inquiring minds.....

Glass beads from road paint? I'm assuming they would do the same at the ceramic beads, as they are VERY reflective on a freshly painted street. You dont mix them in, you add them to the surface of the wet paint. So 3 coats of the roof paint then do a final thick coat and sprinkle a nice thick coat of glass beads on it as you go. Plus as a side effect you could probably be seen from space!! The beads last forever but are a wearable item on the road, but in this application I don't see them losing their "shine".


Just dont drop any amount on a smooth floor because it becomes like ICE. Pretty funny around the shop actually lol.

[crazycal]

I couldn't afford the beads you are asking about so I tried these other beads. They didn't work out as well as I would have hoped.

[CostelloCrew]

beautiful information! love your thread, particularly the attention to detail in explaining your reasoning behind the way you built everything.

any input on using the solarflex and mixing in a different, cheaper form of microsphere? something like these http://aircraftproducts.wicksaircraft.c ... b23-500--g?

[boojiewoojie]

This is what I added to the roof of my Thomas: http://www.uscomposites.com/fillers.html (the 3m glass bubbles). As far as real world testing I normally drive a school bus with a white roof and the interior of the Thomas was noticeably cooler. If it's really just a matter of thickening the paint the glass bubbles are about as cheap as you can go and probably wouldn't change the color of the paint as much as sawdust.

[jujuJules]

Lots of great information here. Thank you.

Any new news/developments on roof painting options in the last couple of years?

I am looking to paint the sides of my roof (center is covered in solar panels) next weekend. . .wondering what the best option is for a bus with little/no existing insulation.

..Jules

[Robin97396]

The best option for a bus with little to no insulation is a really big heater during the winter and an oversized AC during the summer. Expect heating/cooling expenses to be high.

People claim the beads help if you're in a sunny area. It's not going to take the place of a decent insulation job.

[EastCoastCB]

Originally Posted by jujuJules

Lots of great information here. Thank you.

Any new news/developments on roof painting options in the last couple of years?

I am looking to paint the sides of my roof (center is covered in solar panels) next weekend. . .wondering what the best option is for a bus with little/no existing insulation.

..Jules

Satin white.

[EastCoastCB]

Originally Posted by Robin97396

The best option for a bus with little to no insulation is a really big heater during the winter and an oversized AC during the summer. Expect heating/cooling expenses to be high.

People claim the beads help if you're in a sunny area. It's not going to take the place of a decent insulation job.

The beads are just for the placebo effect.

[Robin97396]

Placibo? I take those. They really work.

[aaronsb]

Could you try a mix of Henrys solarflex and microballoon filler? It would have the same bulking properties as sawdust but its not organic so I don't think it would break down as much over time and wear.

[boojiewoojie]

aaronsb, I just saw your question and my answer would be yes. This is about the cheapest I've found: Fillers

[Tango]

A lot of mixed feelings here on the magic pixie dust....aka: Hytech beads. Me...I love the stuff. Having seen it in action on an 80+ year old tin roof in Houston summer sun I am using it everywhere. Cut the transmitted heat by a huge factor so I'm applying two coats at about 24% by volume to paint to all my accessible panels and will be adding it to the roof as well.

[SmujnStar]

How well does the Solar-flex stick? We used a water-based latex primer on our interior floor, and it scratched and peeled immediately (had to do a quick move). Another skoolie video we watched had a couple who had painted the outside of their bus with a water-based latex exterior paint, and said that they have a major problem with it peeling off, as well as staining. I'm reluctant to use another water-based latex on the bus. For that reason, I'm leaning towards the Dura-Brite or the Enviro if we can't afford the silicone Tropi-cool...but the solar-flex is the cheapest

Also, what is your thought on adding the sawdust to the finished product? It seems to be the best, but my partner is worried about mold or other wood-based problems having sawdust in the paint...

[jazty]

Sawdust was NOT intended to be a seriously considered additive for a permanent paint job. It was simply a test. It also creates an awful texture. I've said it before and I'll say it again:

Skip pixie dust of any kind and apply a couple more coats of elastomeric paint.

[2 coats of elastomeric paint + aggregate] = [4 coats of elastomerica paint]

One looks like crap. The other looks amazing.

Also, none of this stuff is an alternative to bulk insulation. It is a reflective product.
White reflects better than black, therefore a white roof will be cooler than a black roof. Is it insulating? No.

[jazty]

Originally Posted by SmujnStar

How well does the Solar-flex stick?

If you follow the directions it will stick just fine. Mine's been on for years and is still holding tight. It sure could use a clean up, though.

- Sand the roof so the paint has something to 'bite' into.
- Clean the roof very well with a degreaser, rinse and let it dry.
- Paint when there's no rain in the forecast for the next 72 hours. I built a circus tent over the bus since it was autumn when I was painting.