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Old 12-14-2019, 09:41 PM   #21
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I've handled quite a bit of sheet metal in the last few months. I cut quite a few pieces of 14, 16 gauge with my jig saw and 18 and 20 gauge with hand shears. It was definitely more than 20 gauge I pulled off the ceiling. And I still have all the panels I removed if you want to come and measure them.
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Old 12-14-2019, 09:46 PM   #22
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I've handled quite a bit of sheet metal in the last few months. Including cutting pieces of 14, 16, 18 and 20 gauge with my jig saw. It was definitely more than 20 gauge I pulled off the ceiling. And I still have all the panels I removed if you want to come and measure them.
ten four. My main employment in life was dealing with sheets of steel. I'd be super shocked if it were thicker than 18 on a metal headliner. Would be a huge waste and horrible to cut.

The exterior is 20ga according everything I can find.
Here's link, granted its for a BB Vision-
https://www.macallistertransportatio...body-features/

Interesting they're now using mineral wool in BB's instead of fiberglass!

According to this link it looks like 22ga headliners.
http://www.ncbussafety.org/documents...typeaspecs.pdf

New IC's have 16ga bodies, I wonder how long thats been.
https://www.icbus.com/buses/school/reseries
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Old 12-14-2019, 10:00 PM   #23
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I've worked with wood most all of my life. On this bus project my experience with the exterior shell is limited. I used the jigsaw to cut out the lip in the sheet metal where the driver's passive vent was so I could have a flat place to put a patch. And I used a hole saw to cut holes for intake and exhaust vents for the compost toilet I am building.

As I said I have nothing to measure the thickness of metal with and so I'm just feeling with my fingers, but I don't think the roof metal I cut into is much thicker thicker than the ceiling panels. I still have the pieces I cut from the roof and all the ceiling panels. I will compare the thicknesses tomorrow.
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Old 12-14-2019, 11:44 PM   #24
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Def not 14 ga. Probably more like 20.
I had a 4'x8' piece of 14ga sheet floating around my bus for a few weeks until I cut it up for my center floor tray. That thing was a monster just to drag around on its edge; I couldn't imagine trying to get something that heavy up to the ceiling (in the How It's Made video a single person does it and kind of easily).

My ceiling is 20ga and according to the video the roof is 20ga as well. I have not yet had the joy of cutting a hole in my roof to verify.
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Old 12-14-2019, 11:51 PM   #25
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1:37
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Old 12-15-2019, 12:06 AM   #26
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One thing I don't understand about that video: right after the 1:37 timestamp it shows some guys putting in the solid rivets on the roof panels. Are there people inside working bucking bars?

I would love to get my hands on the original unedited footage for this video, as well as (presumably) the interviews with IC engineers.
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Old 12-15-2019, 12:14 AM   #27
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Now I understand the difference. I did not look at the video yet, but that's an Okalahoma bus. I have a Georgia bus, which was made in the spring of 1995 and I think when is much more important than where. Maybe it's different.
It's still raining otherwise I would have been outside looking around in the dark for the pieces I cut out of the roof.

The ceiling panels are very easy to find. They're piled just out of the way outside the left emergency door because they are too heavy to move very far when I didn't know where I was taking them anyway. I will definitely compare the thicknesses again tomorrow, and try to take a few pictures.

This episode is fairly typical of my experience on this forum. I try to make a point I consider important, in this case about the ineffectiveness of the insulation that came in my bus and someone starts an argument about something that's not relevant to my point, like in this case whether or not I can tell which is the thicker of 2 pieces of metal I have been handling, since I readily admit having no recent metal working experience, none since high school as a matter of fact.
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Old 12-15-2019, 12:31 AM   #28
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One thing I don't understand about that video: right after the 1:37 timestamp it shows some guys putting in the solid rivets on the roof panels. Are there people inside working bucking bars?

I would love to get my hands on the original unedited footage for this video, as well as (presumably) the interviews with IC engineers.
Stop it at 1:49 and you will see the 2 guys inside working with the 2 outside.
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Old 12-15-2019, 06:36 AM   #29
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Now I understand the difference. I did not look at the video yet, but that's an Okalahoma bus. I have a Georgia bus, which was made in the spring of 1995 and I think when is much more important than where. Maybe it's different.
It's still raining otherwise I would have been outside looking around in the dark for the pieces I cut out of the roof.

The ceiling panels are very easy to find. They're piled just out of the way outside the left emergency door because they are too heavy to move very far when I didn't know where I was taking them anyway. I will definitely compare the thicknesses again tomorrow, and try to take a few pictures.

This episode is fairly typical of my experience on this forum. I try to make a point I consider important, in this case about the ineffectiveness of the insulation that came in my bus and someone starts an argument about something that's not relevant to my point, like in this case whether or not I can tell which is the thicker of 2 pieces of metal I have been handling, since I readily admit having no recent metal working experience, none since high school as a matter of fact.
I was just trying to address the thickness because it comes up EVERY day on here for like the last decade. I didn't/don't really see it as an argument.

The ceiling panel thickness is sorta related to insulation. I guess since it comes up so much I was trying to finally put this baby to bed.
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Old 12-15-2019, 11:45 AM   #30
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Ah okay. I saw all the talk about insulating the bus and thought that meant there isn't anything in them at all from the factory.

So what's in there is not considered good enough for most uses? We plan on living in ours in a less-cold areas.
go to you tube and see what mistakes and things they wished they did from other builders. cold is not the only problem unless you like living in a oven
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Old 12-15-2019, 11:54 AM   #31
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top row original rivets bottom and below are 3/16 carriage bolts with sealant under them
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Old 12-15-2019, 11:59 AM   #32
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drilled over 1k holes ground a round chisel square to fit the square shoulder then the wife used a screw gun to install the nuts then locktighted the nuts. only used 3 drill bits as i like cobalt bits
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Old 12-15-2019, 01:26 PM   #33
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OK, so I have done my best to compare the thickness of the pieces I cut from the roof using either my jig saw or hole saw with the thickness of the panels I removed from the ceiling. As I said last night I have nothing to accurately measure the thickness of sheet metal, and such a device is not on my shopping list because I have no real use for anything like that.

So I have used my Crescent Wiss sheet metal shears, bought new this past summer, to help me estimate the relative thickness. The packaging that came with the shears says they cut 18 gauge. I cut a lot of 16 gauge galavanized with these shears, but when I wanted to cut 16 gauge non-galvanized, the shears would not handle it and I used my jig saw. Unfortunately, I don't have any of the galvanized 16 or 18 gauge I used for floor patches, but I still have a chunk of the 16 gauge non-galvanized I used to patch holes in the roof, and it looks a little less than twice the thickness of the samples from the ceiling and roof.

The samples I have from the roof are unpainted on one side and definitely galvanized, but the ceiling panels have been painted on both sides and I can't tell if there is zinc underneath or not. The material from the roof appears to be just slightly thicker than the material from the ceiling. I assumed that it would the opposite because the perforated material would tear easier than the unperforated, so they would use thicker material for the perforated pieces. That assumption now appears to me to have been incorrect.

From the ease of cutting with the shears I guess that the samples from the exterior shell are 18 gauge galvanized, but I suppose they could be 20. The samples from the ceiling material appear to be just slightly thinner, but what gauge they are would depend upon if they are galvanized or not.

OK, now that I have done my best with this, I would like to see a photo of a cardboard ceiling in a schoolbus. I have a lot of of trouble believing that, really a lot. It was that statement that convinced me to make my first post on this thread.
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Old 12-15-2019, 01:31 PM   #34
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I'm trying to understand why it's important that the metal is 18g or 20g, I don't see an issue using either one, no matter what is on the bus.
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Old 12-15-2019, 01:34 PM   #35
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Thanks for this vid, it certainly answers a lot of construction questions.
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Old 12-15-2019, 08:29 PM   #36
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OK, so I have done my best to compare the thickness of the pieces I cut from the roof using either my jig saw or hole saw with the thickness of the panels I removed from the ceiling. As I said last night I have nothing to accurately measure the thickness of sheet metal, and such a device is not on my shopping list because I have no real use for anything like that.

So I have used my Crescent Wiss sheet metal shears, bought new this past summer, to help me estimate the relative thickness. The packaging that came with the shears says they cut 18 gauge. I cut a lot of 16 gauge galavanized with these shears, but when I wanted to cut 16 gauge non-galvanized, the shears would not handle it and I used my jig saw. Unfortunately, I don't have any of the galvanized 16 or 18 gauge I used for floor patches, but I still have a chunk of the 16 gauge non-galvanized I used to patch holes in the roof, and it looks a little less than twice the thickness of the samples from the ceiling and roof.

The samples I have from the roof are unpainted on one side and definitely galvanized, but the ceiling panels have been painted on both sides and I can't tell if there is zinc underneath or not. The material from the roof appears to be just slightly thicker than the material from the ceiling. I assumed that it would the opposite because the perforated material would tear easier than the unperforated, so they would use thicker material for the perforated pieces. That assumption now appears to me to have been incorrect.

From the ease of cutting with the shears I guess that the samples from the exterior shell are 18 gauge galvanized, but I suppose they could be 20. The samples from the ceiling material appear to be just slightly thinner, but what gauge they are would depend upon if they are galvanized or not.

OK, now that I have done my best with this, I would like to see a photo of a cardboard ceiling in a schoolbus. I have a lot of of trouble believing that, really a lot. It was that statement that convinced me to make my first post on this thread.
Google "bluebird wanderlodge". They have the cardboard ceilings. No one said school buses had em, only that bluebird used em in bus bodies.

Easiest way to tell thickness is get a cheapo gauge at like HF, but as you said its not really something folks will use much. I've got a couple left from my steel shop days. Some of the metal companies will give them to you.

Here's an interior shot of a wanderlodge ceiling.

It wasn't really *cardboard* it was a crappy pressed fiber board of some sort though.
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Old 12-15-2019, 08:32 PM   #37
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I'm trying to understand why it's important that the metal is 18g or 20g, I don't see an issue using either one, no matter what is on the bus.
No issue at all it just comes up a lot and I figured I'd dig up substantial evidence to support what I've been saying about what buses are made of.


Enjoying some nice Northern Lights right now!
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Old 12-15-2019, 08:35 PM   #38
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No issue at all it just comes up a lot and I figured I'd dig up substantial evidence to support what I've been saying about what buses are made of.


Enjoying some nice Northern Lights right now!
I've been using 20g, more often than not it is recommended here to use 18g.I think it matters not, other than the 18g is more expensive and weighs more, both negatives in my book.
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Old 12-15-2019, 08:41 PM   #39
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I've been using 20g, more often than not it is recommended here to use 18g.I think it matters not, other than the 18g is more expensive and weighs more, both negatives in my book.
I like 18 cause its that much more less flexible but still enough to work with.
Plus I dont really even pay much if at all for steel. That won't last forever but as long as my stepdad is still at the shop I worked at I have an in.
I have currently six 4x10's of 18ga cold rolled I paid $65 for the whole lot.
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