Insulation, *again*

[spacecat]

thanks, guys! this thread has been super helpful.

[PigPen]

Iheartbus... reflextix is only a radiant barrier when used with an air gap. If you put anything over it, including a thin panel, it just conducts the energy straight through it.

I think it may also be a vapor barrier, but you could get something much thinner and cheaper if you wanted that.

So many people use reflextix in their buses, but it isn't actually adding anything. I'm not trying to be difficult, just spreading information to help people on future conversions!

It does work well as temporary window covers, for what its worth.

[Tango]

Properly installed, Reflectix actually works pretty well. But as noted, you MUST have an air gap to get the benefit.

[Versatile]

Originally Posted by superdave

wait till you can afford the spray foam. even a cheap conversion is going to cost 10 grand. converting a bus is not cheap.

Different strokes for different folks!

I hate to see such discouraging words.

"even a cheap conversion is going to cost 10 grand.

Doesn't have to be this way.

You don't have to build a monument to yourself. I have less than 4k in my bus.gen, and all conversion supplies to this about 1/2 way point.

Not wanting to rain on any parades . I see some fantastic conversions . A person or family needs to really look at how they are going to use that bus.
I cannot justify some of the strip downs i see. Tear it all out and add a ton of insulation and then you have a box that has condensation problems. It will take thousands of miles to drive it out. A reflective white roof works wonders. A generator and a good AC 120 volt unit will do wonders for happiness when stationary . I am appealing to us with low budgets. Get the most out of your bus as soon as you can. When you let that bus sit for prolonged periods then things start to go down hill quick mechanically.

So many different ways to go. Sure is a lot of fun planning and doing the conversion and the satisfaction is there no matter which way you go.

Please don't think this is a personal attack.

[Brewerbob]

Originally Posted by EastCoastCB

I'll be putting in the foam board, then the spray foam. I don't see how there'd be any problem doing that at all. WHo's reported that as not working??
We aren't talking about using "Great Stuff"... That stuff is corrosive in a bus-type environment.

I'm with the OP (sort of) and you. What do you think of the spray first for the floor. It would seal the ten thousand bolt and nail holes I have. Then board on top of that for the bulk. I don't think I have any holes in the walls or ceiling tho. Use board there and use the spray around the edges to "glue" the board in place.

Oh, speaking of glue, does the board get actually glued (regardless of spray or just board)?

Maybe spray the wall/ceiling where the curve is the sharpest just so as to not cut the board into strips and piece meal it together. I want to be able to survive in both hot and cold climates so I may see negative zero degrees.

[Shambhala Tinbolle]

Originally Posted by DreamWeaverBus

Ugh, still chasing my insulation tail. I don't wanna end up freezing my ass off and dealing with condensation after moving north. But I'm not sure I can afford a full spray foam job. Surely one can do decent insulation without spray foam? or with small amounts?

hi DreamWeaver,
To me the question is "Can you afford to rip out and re-do the bus plus add new/more insulation?" I live in a very cold climate, so, like you, I want to get the foundation right the first time.
I will put what ever $ is required to have functional reliable insulation in my bus because being cold sucks, and having to re-do the bus would be heartbreaking.
This doesn't technically answer your original question, but hopefully it's of some service to you. Best of success on your project.

[EastCoastCB]

Originally Posted by Rengald

I've had a thought for a while but I haven't had time to completely think it through... but what about using severely undersized rigid panels and spray foaming around it? The panels would leave a sizable gap (2-3 inches maybe?) around the edges... enough to get a good amount of spray. The rigid foam basically turns into cheap filler in the flat/easy to access parts.

What's the benefit of spray foam over rigid in the large space between ribs? I hear it adds rigidity but would spraying around rigid foam also add rigidity?

Could you still spray a layer over the spray surrounded rigid foam? Say... 2" rigid foam and another 1" of spray on top?

I'm not really asking these questions directly... they are more rhetorical/hypothetical. This is just the line of thinking I've been having lately.

Thats the route I'm taking, although I'm not really gonna spray over the foam, just between it, and on a couple places, like the roof raise transition. Good place to spray foam.
The spray foam will go a long ways since the foam board will be taking up the bulk of the big, flat spaces. The spray will tie it all together, and I'll save a good bit of money and work over spraying the entire thing.

[Brewerbob]

Originally Posted by EastCoastCB

Thats the route I'm taking, although I'm not really gonna spray over the foam, just between it, and on a couple places, like the roof raise transition. Good place to spray foam.
The spray foam will go a long ways since the foam board will be taking up the bulk of the big, flat spaces. The spray will tie it all together, and I'll save a good bit of money and work over spraying the entire thing.

I guess if you have a 6" or 12" overlap it would be just as good but I was thinking you were saying a light coat over the top of everything. I kinda like the complete coat idea.

I like the idea of just the spray in the really sharp angles or bust the board into strip and then give it a GOOD once over with the spray. I guess you can bias cut the foam but the idea of putting right angles together filling in the wall to ceiling transition I do NOT like.

[EastCoastCB]

Originally Posted by Brewerbob

I guess if you have a 6" or 12" overlap it would be just as good but I was thinking you were saying a light coat over the top of everything. I kinda like the complete coat idea.

I like the idea of just the spray in the really sharp angles or bust the board into strip and then give it a GOOD once over with the spray. I guess you can bias cut the foam but the idea of putting right angles together filling in the wall to ceiling transition I do NOT like.

I don't think you understand what I'm saying. I'll just post pics when the time comes.

[Brewerbob]

Originally Posted by EastCoastCB

I don't think you understand what I'm saying. I'll just post pics when the time comes.

Lol, I was going to edit and tell you to do just that.

[DreamWeaverBus]

Originally Posted by Rengald

What's the benefit of spray foam over rigid in the large space between ribs? I hear it adds rigidity but would spraying around rigid foam also add rigidity?

I wondered that too, I was hoping to get some rigidity but clearly not hoping for as much as full spray foam offers. The benefit I hoped to get with a thin layer of spray foam with rigid foam on top was the soundproofing and vapor barrier.

Originally Posted by Iheartbus

Either spray foam completely, or rigid foam/reflectix imho

I had considered that that's what I may need to do.

Originally Posted by Tango

Properly installed, Reflectix actually works pretty well. But as noted, you MUST have an air gap to get the benefit.

An air gap where? Does the spray foam and rigid foam underneath not form an air gap? How do you get the best benefit of reflectix? I AM doing research but of course the insulation market is competitive so everyone says different things, for the most part.

Originally Posted by Versatile

A reflective white roof works wonders. ... I am appealing to us with low budgets.

I certainly plan on a white roof, though I wonder what specifically I should use, I heard ceramic white paint would be great, how many gallons do you think it takes to cover a ten window bus roof? Or would I be similarly served with a simple truck paint coat of white?

Originally Posted by Brewerbob

I'm with the OP (sort of) and you. What do you think of the spray first for the floor. It would seal the ten thousand bolt and nail holes I have. Then board on top of that for the bulk. I don't think I have any holes in the walls or ceiling tho. Use board there and use the spray around the edges to "glue" the board in place.

Oh, speaking of glue, does the board get actually glued (regardless of spray or just board)?

Maybe spray the wall/ceiling where the curve is the sharpest just so as to not cut the board into strips and piece meal it together. I want to be able to survive in both hot and cold climates so I may see negative zero degrees.

That's not a bad idea, using the rigid and spray foams differently in different parts like the floors and curves.

Originally Posted by Shambhala Tinbolle

hi DreamWeaver,
To me the question is "Can you afford to rip out and re-do the bus plus add new/more insulation?" I live in a very cold climate, so, like you, I want to get the foundation right the first time.
I will put what ever $ is required to have functional reliable insulation in my bus because being cold sucks, and having to re-do the bus would be heartbreaking.
This doesn't technically answer your original question, but hopefully it's of some service to you. Best of success on your project.

Asking the right questions is pretty important to getting the right answers... Redoing the insulation is not a happy option, so yes, I also wanna do it right the first time and be well served in cold or hot temps. I would like to say I will put whatever $$ is required, but I also REALLY wanna get out of my grandparent's house as soon as possible. I'm gonna redo my budget again and try to make more room for insulation. Success to your conversion as well! Up in Canada, good insulation is a MUST I'm sure!

I'm seeing a lot of different ideas here, which is both awesome and confusing. I know everyone has different ideas about how to insulate and what's best for them and their conversion, I expected that. But I'm pretty much leaves me back at square one. I'm seeing posts both for and against my idea, so I'm not sure if this is a go-ahead or not.

I know it's my conversion and I can do what I will, but I've never done anything like this before and like Shambhala said, I don't wanna hafta redo it. That's time money and effort wasted.

My conclusion to draw so far is basically, go ahead and try it, it can't be that bad. lol What I'm still not clear on is: will the spray foam cure properly in the middle if covered by a board of rigid foam?

Glad my thread has been informative spacecat. Not to toot my own horn but I am loving this thread...

[EastCoastCB]

Reflectix and "ceramic bead" paint and two expensive, lackluster products.
They're all hype and little substance. Plain old flat or satin white will provide the absolute most reflection of heat, ask superdave.

[DreamWeaverBus]

Good to know ECCB, love it when cheaper works as well as expensive...

[EastCoastCB]

Originally Posted by DreamWeaverBus

Good to know ECCB, love it when cheaper works as well as expensive...

Dave and I did some testing and flat white on his roof was cooler than any other surface of his bus by a GOOD bit.
I'm painting my shorty over the next week or so, and initially we're gonna spray the WHOLE bus with the main color- tiffany blue. after that, I'm taping the roof edges off and painting it flat eggshell white.

I looked into the beads and buskote and at the end of the day they have a lot of negatives and the extra cost isn't worth it. The stuff peels after so many years, and I'd hate that. It also yellows and dirt, dust, and stuff sticks to it more than regular old paint.

Found some decent single stage acrylic stuff at an auto paint store for 60/gal WITH hardener. Sweet deal for quality stuff.

[DreamWeaverBus]

Originally Posted by EastCoastCB

Dave and I did some testing and flat white on his roof was cooler than any other surface of his bus by a GOOD bit.
I'm painting my shorty over the next week or so, and initially we're gonna spray the WHOLE bus with the main color- tiffany blue. after that, I'm taping the roof edges off and painting it flat eggshell white.

I looked into the beads and buskote and at the end of the day they have a lot of negatives and the extra cost isn't worth it. The stuff peels after so many years, and I'd hate that. It also yellows and dirt, dust, and stuff sticks to it more than regular old paint.

Found some decent single stage acrylic stuff at an auto paint store for 60/gal WITH hardener. Sweet deal for quality stuff.

That's awesome. I love the idea of reflecting so much heat just with white paint. Also good to know the beads aren't worth the extra cost. Yay saving money! Reflecting heat is good, but I also want to retain heat in winter.

I've been thinking about painting the outside with a Galaxy kind of motif. Black/blue background, different colored nebulae, speckled with stars. Black obviously attracts heat, think it's a bad idea even with a white roof?

[EastCoastCB]

Originally Posted by DreamWeaverBus

That's awesome. I love the idea of reflecting so much heat just with white paint. Also good to know the beads aren't worth the extra cost. Yay saving money! Reflecting heat is good, but I also want to retain heat in winter.

I've been thinking about painting the outside with a Galaxy kind of motif. Black/blue background, different colored nebulae, speckled with stars. Black obviously attracts heat, think it's a bad idea even with a white roof?

The roof being white is a HUGE help keeping it cool, no matter what color you go with under it.
Maybe keep the black lower, and fade to purple, blue, ethereal color as you go up?
Sounds like a COOL theme!

[DreamWeaverBus]

Color fade was DEFINITELY part of my plan, I love the black/blue/purple idea, I also thought of having a drastic change from Galaxy to cloud. Glad you like the idea, I needed a skin worthy of the name DreamWeaver!

[superdave]

Originally Posted by versatile

different strokes for different folks!

I hate to see such discouraging words.

"even a cheap conversion is going to cost 10 grand.

Doesn't have to be this way.

You don't have to build a monument to yourself. I have less than 4k in my bus.gen, and all conversion supplies to this about 1/2 way point.

Not wanting to rain on any parades . I see some fantastic conversions . A person or family needs to really look at how they are going to use that bus.
I cannot justify some of the strip downs i see. Tear it all out and add a ton of insulation and then you have a box that has condensation problems. It will take thousands of miles to drive it out. A reflective white roof works wonders. A generator and a good ac 120 volt unit will do wonders for happiness when stationary . I am appealing to us with low budgets. Get the most out of your bus as soon as you can. When you let that bus sit for prolonged periods then things start to go down hill quick mechanically.

So many different ways to go. Sure is a lot of fun planning and doing the conversion and the satisfaction is there no matter which way you go.

Please don't think this is a personal attack.:thanx:

not to be discouraging just realistic. If your just throwing a couch in there with a 5 gal bucket for a crapper then ya ok. Any conversion with insulation plumbing and electric will be at least 10 grand if your real lucky. Im not doing anything fancy and its going to be 20 grand at least. A generator and a good ac unit wont do squat in a full size non insulated bus. Keep an open mind when considering a conversion and double what you think it will cost and the time it takes to do it.

[Robin97396]

I consider my build to be minimalistic. No couch. I fully insulated the walls and ceiling after spending my first winter in this au'natural bus. The following summer I wasn't thinking of the air conditioning benefits, just heat retention as fall was approaching.

It really can be done inexpensively. $50 paint jobs can look decent. Interiors look better with used materials. Some types of insulation are quite inexpensive. The point is your own labor can be your biggest contribution if you're able to source inexpensive materials.

I'd also say you could turn out a nice build for around $4k.

[slaughridge85]

Originally Posted by EastCoastCB

Plain old flat white paint

And you can use the leftovers to paint the inside of your grow box for your... tomatoes... yeah tomatoes, that's the ticket...