Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 05-13-2017, 02:43 PM   #1
New Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 8
Need help selecting ceiling insulation materials

Hey. I'm new here. My partner and I are currently converting an E-450 based shuttle bus and I'm hung up about what to insulate my ceiling with. I've dug extensively through the the forum but haven't exactly found what I need.

My ceiling is gutted and whats exposed is a thin layer of steel(?) and the steel ribs. The outer shell is fiberglass. I've figured on using 1/8" or 1/4" luan for the ceiling.

What i can't figure is what to put between the ribs. I've seen foam blocks (which is what was originally up there) and I've heard people talking about expanding foam insulation like great stuff. I know great stuff can't be used in a enclosed space so would one have to put it up and then shave it down before putting up the boards? Is this any easier or cheaper or more effective than using styrofoam blocks? Is there a third thing I'm completely missing? I a reflectix layer a good idea?

Any help is greatly appreciated.

TheStinker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2017, 02:58 PM   #2
Bus Nut
 
DreamWeaverBus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: So Ill
Posts: 267
Year: 2002
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Freightliner
Engine: Cummins 5.9 Allison AT545
Rated Cap: 71
Inexperienced opinion here: All those sound like good ideas, at least as far as my research has led me to believe. Spray foam seems to be king if you can afford it, otherwise it seems like rigid foam boards, spray foam in between to seal, and reflectix seems like the next best.

I plan to do just that: spray foam if I can afford it, otherwise rigid foam with spray foam to seal, and reflectix. Some more experienced people should chime in soon..
DreamWeaverBus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2017, 04:29 PM   #3
Bus Geek
 
Robin97396's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Willamina, Oregon
Posts: 6,409
Coachwork: 97 Bluebird TC1000 5.9
Aside from the spray foam and rigid insulation is the newer rockwool. Some are using that in their builds currently.

The long term thought is that you can use a thin coat of spray foam to insulate the outer skin and ribs 1/2" deep, eliminating condensation while also sealing the interior. Use any other type of insulation, or more foam, to fill in to whatever depth you feel you need. Some have six inch thick walls and ceilings, usually involving several types of insulation. It's all about how you intend to use your bus.

I have spray foam filling the walls and ceilings to rib level. Beyond that I put up 1/2" rigid insulation before putting in a durable interior surface of plywood. I've also retained all my windows, which isn't good during cold weather, so I've cut panels of insulation that cover one or more window frames. I estimate a 70% reduction in heating energy this winter, which was a unusually hard winter this year. I don't have experience with other types of insulation so it's hard to make a comparitive conclusion.
__________________
Robin
Nobody's Business
Robin97396 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2017, 05:13 PM   #4
Bus Nut
 
DreamWeaverBus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: So Ill
Posts: 267
Year: 2002
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Freightliner
Engine: Cummins 5.9 Allison AT545
Rated Cap: 71
How thick are most bus ribs? I was thinking of spray foam up to that thickness then other insulation outside that. Can you get spray foam less than the thickness of the ribs so the extra insulation you get doesn't go past the ribs? Or is it hard to gauge when spraying? I guess ideally it would be good to get spray foam up to ribs then other insulation beyond that to increase r value.
DreamWeaverBus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2017, 05:32 PM   #5
Bus Geek
 
Robin97396's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Willamina, Oregon
Posts: 6,409
Coachwork: 97 Bluebird TC1000 5.9
I'm having some issues with R-values. The 1/2" rigid styrofoam insulation I use against the windows has an R-value of just under 2. Yet it works very well in freezing temperatures, as well as stopping the sun on hot days. Doesn't make sense.
__________________
Robin
Nobody's Business
Robin97396 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2017, 05:58 PM   #6
Bus Nut
 
DreamWeaverBus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: So Ill
Posts: 267
Year: 2002
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Freightliner
Engine: Cummins 5.9 Allison AT545
Rated Cap: 71
I remember you talking about that somewhere... Weird huh? Maybe we don't need as much R value as we think. I'd still rather over do it than under do it.
DreamWeaverBus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2017, 07:38 PM   #7
Bus Geek
 
Robin97396's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Willamina, Oregon
Posts: 6,409
Coachwork: 97 Bluebird TC1000 5.9
It just makes me think. Has anyone done only the 1/2" of spray foam? I honestly don't know how spray foam compares to styrofoam in R-value but it seems they'd be similar. Rigid styrofoam flat against a window works well in the winter, so I'm wondering if 1/2" of spray foam would possibly be adequate in that same sense that the styrofoam seems to work. Maybe I'll try that on my next bus.
__________________
Robin
Nobody's Business
Robin97396 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2017, 07:46 PM   #8
Bus Nut
 
DreamWeaverBus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: So Ill
Posts: 267
Year: 2002
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Freightliner
Engine: Cummins 5.9 Allison AT545
Rated Cap: 71
Honestly it's making me thinking that spray foam might be overkill for the price and R value. It just keeps coming back to an effective vapor barrier...
DreamWeaverBus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2017, 07:47 PM   #9
Bus Crazy
 
CaptSquid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Billings, MT
Posts: 1,269
Year: 2003
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: HDX
Engine: Cat C7
Rated Cap: 84 passenger
I've installed 1" rigid insulation on the sides, with removable panels for the door and windshield. Remember, though, you'll lose/gain more heat through the roof. This 1" gives me an R-6 on the sides. I haven't insulated the overhead (yet), but I've already done TWO Montana winters in Brunhilde. I use catalytic heaters to keep the cold down to a manageable level.
CaptSquid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2017, 09:10 PM   #10
Mini-Skoolie
 
Shambhala Tinbolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: ON Canada
Posts: 54
Year: 2003
Coachwork: Bluebird
Rated Cap: 72 passenger
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheStinker View Post
Hey. I'm new here. My partner and I are currently converting an E-450 based shuttle bus and I'm hung up about what to insulate my ceiling with. I've dug extensively through the the forum but haven't exactly found what I need.

My ceiling is gutted and whats exposed is a thin layer of steel(?) and the steel ribs. The outer shell is fiberglass. I've figured on using 1/8" or 1/4" luan for the ceiling.

What i can't figure is what to put between the ribs. I've seen foam blocks (which is what was originally up there) and I've heard people talking about expanding foam insulation like great stuff. I know great stuff can't be used in a enclosed space so would one have to put it up and then shave it down before putting up the boards? Is this any easier or cheaper or more effective than using styrofoam blocks? Is there a third thing I'm completely missing? I a reflectix layer a good idea?

Any help is greatly appreciated.
hello, i'm the inexperienced voice on this thread.
I'm in planning/research stages of my adventure - bus purchase is in process.
Though spray foam insulation(s) is wildly popular, I don't want it in my bus home. That's a personal choice because of health.
I have been looking into radiant foil and specific insulating of 'metal buildings'.
I see my bus as a building on wheels that happens to be made of pretty serious metal, so figure that insulation geared to metal buildings would be suitable.
https://www.radiantguard.com/pages/h...ls%20&%20roofs
This link may be of help in your query.
Idea I have is to strap & insulate exterior, then sheath with wood or metal. Then do another process for the interior - vapor barrier, strap, insulate, sheath. I don't know what 'R' value this approach would give, or what challenges will present themselves. Like with many insulation approaches, the answers lie miles and years down the road...
very best to you,
__________________
Shambhala
Ontario Schoolie
Shambhala Tinbolle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2017, 09:50 PM   #11
Bus Nut
 
DreamWeaverBus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: So Ill
Posts: 267
Year: 2002
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Freightliner
Engine: Cummins 5.9 Allison AT545
Rated Cap: 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shambhala Tinbolle View Post
https://www.radiantguard.com/pages/h...ls%20&%20roofs
This link may be of help in your query.
Idea I have is to strap & insulate exterior, then sheath with wood or metal. Then do another process for the interior - vapor barrier, strap, insulate, sheath. I don't know what 'R' value this approach would give, or what challenges will present themselves. Like with many insulation approaches, the answers lie miles and years down the road...
very best to you,[/FONT][/SIZE]
I like your thinking!! As Robin has said, I am chasing my tail over and over on this insulation business. Cost IS a big factor with me, but doing the thing RIGHT is also big, since I plan on moving north and want to not freeze my ass off. But also not OVER doing it is big, if something cheaper and easier can be done, I'd like to do that. Reflectix type stuff is high on my list right now. I'm gonna just keep chasing my tail prolly. Once I have a bus and gut it and get a quote from local spray foam people, then I'll be able to make a choice. Your link was very helpful, thank you!!!
DreamWeaverBus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2017, 11:01 PM   #12
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Omaha, NE
Posts: 56
Year: 2002
Coachwork: Huh?
Engine: T444E
When you say spray foam is expensive, how expensive are you talking about?
heeranyi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2017, 11:34 PM   #13
Bus Nut
 
DreamWeaverBus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: So Ill
Posts: 267
Year: 2002
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Freightliner
Engine: Cummins 5.9 Allison AT545
Rated Cap: 71
Most of what I have read says one DIY home kit of spray foam will cost $500-$600, like this one on eBay: Touch 'n Seal U2-600 Spray Foam Insulation Kit Closed Cell-Standard FR - 600BF | eBay
That gives you 600BF, which means one inch of thickness on 600 square feet of surface. (Correct me if I'm wrong, peeps) You'd probably want at least 2 for a decent job on a school bus, so that's about a thousand dollars right there DIY. In my area, midwest, I can probably expect to pay double that for a pro to do it. If I do it at all, to save money I'm probably gonna DIY.
DreamWeaverBus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2017, 07:19 AM   #14
Bus Geek
 
EastCoastCB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Eustis FLORIDA
Posts: 23,829
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Freighliner FS65
Engine: Cat 3126
Rated Cap: 15
The professional spray foam guys here don't even return calls or emails about spraying a bus. The quotes I have managed to get were over two grand.
I'll DIY. Better off doin it myself anyhow.
EastCoastCB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2017, 07:29 AM   #15
Bus Nut
 
superdave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: hills of sw virginia
Posts: 889
Year: 1996
Chassis: thomas
Engine: 8.3 cummins
Rated Cap: 11 window
Quote:
Originally Posted by DreamWeaverBus View Post
Most of what I have read says one DIY home kit of spray foam will cost $500-$600, like this one on eBay: Touch 'n Seal U2-600 Spray Foam Insulation Kit Closed Cell-Standard FR - 600BF | eBay
That gives you 600BF, which means one inch of thickness on 600 square feet of surface. (Correct me if I'm wrong, peeps) You'd probably want at least 2 for a decent job on a school bus, so that's about a thousand dollars right there DIY. In my area, midwest, I can probably expect to pay double that for a pro to do it. If I do it at all, to save money I'm probably gonna DIY.
good kits, covered my 32' bus with 2"
__________________
living in a bus down by the river.
my build pics
https://www.skoolie.net/forums/membe...albums942.html
superdave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2017, 10:52 AM   #16
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Omaha, NE
Posts: 56
Year: 2002
Coachwork: Huh?
Engine: T444E
Thank you for the info. I guess if it saves me and my little ones from being hot or cold for years to come, it's worth paying for. Ok, I guess I'll be watching some videos on how to diy spray foam.
heeranyi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2017, 11:02 AM   #17
Bus Geek
 
Robin97396's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Willamina, Oregon
Posts: 6,409
Coachwork: 97 Bluebird TC1000 5.9
You ought to see the look on the commercial foam sprayer's face when I started talking about spraying foam under the floor. Not a happy look.
__________________
Robin
Nobody's Business
Robin97396 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2017, 04:29 PM   #18
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Omaha, NE
Posts: 56
Year: 2002
Coachwork: Huh?
Engine: T444E
oh my goodness, I can only imagine. Maybe a halloween mask with goggles. lol
heeranyi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2017, 01:29 PM   #19
New Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 8
Sorry for the long wait responding. For those interested, i ended up using 2" thick extruded polystyrene (xps). I cut it carefully so that it would wedge between the ribs of the bus with three pieces per rib section to adjust for curve. I filled in all the gaps with great stuff and shaved it down. Then I painted and cut to fit some 11/32" plywood and screwed it up on the ribs. Seems like it will do the trick.

Thanks for your input! Now on to the next problem.
TheStinker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2017, 07:03 PM   #20
Bus Geek
 
Tango's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 8,462
Year: 1946
Coachwork: Chevrolet/Wayne
Chassis: 1- 1/2 ton
Engine: Cummins 4BT
Rated Cap: 15
Sounds good...but without pix...it didn't happen. Jack's rule.
Tango is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:25 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.