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06-27-2022, 11:49 AM
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#1
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: SW USA
Posts: 2,064
Year: 2003
Coachwork: IC / Amtran
Chassis: CE300
Engine: International T444e
Rated Cap: 23
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Need help with Bluefire missing data - IC Bus
So, we got our BlueFire 9-pin 'bt low energy' adapter (Thanks for so many informative posts on this issue, Christopher!), and downloaded the 'Bluefire Apps' app onto a (bus-dedicated) Amazon Fire tablet. Also got a dash built with pretty much everything I want to see. So far I am ABSOLUTELY LOVING THIS, but there are some issues.
For reference, this is a 2003 IC bus w/ t444e & Allison 2000-series trans. Also, the only testing I've done so far has been with the bus in park/neutral, running at idle or slightly above in our driveway.
The following data items are either not showing up at all (NA), or have only shown up sporadically. I hope someone can help me figure out if these are data items the ECU simply isn't receiving/sending, or if something in my configuration is preventing them from rendering properly:
1) Fuel level. Neither 'Fuel Level' nor 'Fuel Tank 1' show any value (N/A). Oddly, 'Fuel Tank 2' shows 0.0%. We only have one tank, and that tank is full, so I don't know what to make of this.
2) Boost is showing 0.0% even when I rev the engine. I don't know squat about turbos, so I don't know if this is a valid # sitting in nuetral. There is no gauge in the OEM panel for boost so I have nothing to compare it to.
3) Intake Temp: I saw this show an actual value once, and only once. Every other time it's been 'NA'.
4) Fan speed: Same as above... it registered a value once and only once (66%). Every other time it's 'NA'.
5) Fuel Pressure, Coolant Pressure, Crankcase pressure, and Exhaust Temp have never registered anything (all NA). I don't know if that's because the ECM doesn't receive values for these paramaters, or if it's a problem. I guess I wouldn't be surprised if there were no sensors for the last three, but I'd think at least fuel pressure would be available, wouldn't it?
Note 1: I've played back & forth with the options for connecting to the J1939 / J1708 data buses. At the moment I have both checked, along with 'optimize data retrieval' checked as well, which apparently prioritizes J1939 data where both are available. With this option unchecked nothing changed in regards to missing data. When I only connected to the J1708 data bus my transmission data went away. When I only connected to the J1939 bus my battery/voltage data went away.
Note 2: The 'Bluefire Apps' app has you choose between 'truck, motorhome, or yacht' when the app started for the first time. I chose motorhome. I don't know if this has anything to do with these issues?
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06-27-2022, 03:11 PM
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#2
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: SW USA
Posts: 2,064
Year: 2003
Coachwork: IC / Amtran
Chassis: CE300
Engine: International T444e
Rated Cap: 23
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Update:
I now have the fuel level working. I have no idea how or why. I went through all the options for the data buses again, setting each possible permutation and seeing what comes up on the dash, only to end up right back where I started (collecting data from both buses). But now the fuel gauge works, 'fuel tank 1' shows the same thing, and 'fuel tank 2' is now 'NA' as I'd expect. It just starting to work out of the blue makes me as nervous as it does happy.
Fan speed is now back to showing 66% after warming up the engine for a bit. I'm thinking maybe it shows 'NA' when the (viscous) fan clutch isn't engaged? You'd think it would show zero, but I noticed my accelerator pedal shows 'NA' until I depress it a hair for the first time, then it reads properly (including 0.0% once I remove my foot).
The intake temp came on after running the bus (parked) for a long while. It showed 2 degrees fahrenheit, however, which absolutely is nothing close to right. Then it went off again and hasn't come back on. I have no idea what's going on here.
No other changes from above. I was really hoping to see the fuel pressure pop on, but so far nothing.
BTW I changed the app between 'motorhome' and 'truck', then back again, and it didn't seem to make any difference in regards to the problems above.
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06-27-2022, 03:52 PM
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#3
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Oct 2021
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 861
Year: 2003
Coachwork: BlueBird
Chassis: TC2000 28ft
Engine: Cummins ISB 5.9 24v, MD3060
Rated Cap: 14
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I think the difference between motorhome and truck is that some of the stuff is more taylored to milage and hours tracking for DOT stuff. I did the same, but landed on Motorhome as good enough.
I have the same issues with the 9oin connector only having 7pins as well. I have an ISB that seems to maybe have data on both 1939 and 1708. Also have a 3060 reporting values. I was hoping i could get fuel pressure out of mine, but so far, have never gotten that to report. I have similar experiences with the fuel stuff. Strangely, i have three air pressure readings for the 3 tanks, and they all seem to rotate around as to which one shows. I know some of this is customizable, but my biggest issue is that after about 15-30 minutes, the device disconnects from my tablet (tried phone, another tablet, etc). I'm going to try my dads ipad next time hes here and see if that's more reliable (before forking out a ton of money on that). On their site, they suggest the old bluetooth chip for android, but Bluetooth LE works great on most things now. Its possible that too much data is processing on the bluefire and its crashing. There's ways to reduce that, but i haven't been driving my bus enough yet to tinker with it. I don't want to idle my engine enough hours in the driveway to figure this stuff out yet. Have you driven far with it on to verify that you can at least keep a stable connection? It will annoyingly beep a siren on your android if it crashes.
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06-27-2022, 05:01 PM
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#4
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: SW USA
Posts: 2,064
Year: 2003
Coachwork: IC / Amtran
Chassis: CE300
Engine: International T444e
Rated Cap: 23
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Thanks so much, fo4!
No, I haven't driven it at all yet. Only testing I've done is idling in the driveway, and like you said, I don't want to spend too much time doing that. I'll update this thread once I do however. Hopefully I don't have similar issues. Is it a thing with distance from your device to adapter for you?
It's both good & bad to hear about your fuel metric troulbes similar to mine. Good: misery loves company lol. Bad... will it ever work for us? Fuel pressure seems to be a pretty important metric.
I have zero brake system info. I assumed it's because it's not being captured (Dash has mechanical gauges that monitor air system pressure). Does that sound reasonable? Or maybe this is more data I should be getting but am not?
Understood on the diff between apps. Doesn't seem to make any difference whatsoever with these issues. I'm back to 'motorhome' now since none of the extra truck functionality applies.
Did you ever reach out to Bluefire via the forums and/or support? I think that's gonna be my next step, but I want to make sure I'm not complaining about data not showing up that isn't even being captured.
From what I can tell so far, my trans data is coming strictly from 1939, while everything else is 1708 (I think. maybe. lol).
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06-27-2022, 05:49 PM
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#5
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 7,030
Year: 2003
Coachwork: International
Chassis: CE 300
Engine: DT466e
Rated Cap: 65C-43A
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Dang, I wish you knew what you did to get the fuel gauge working. Mine has never shown fuel %.
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06-27-2022, 06:13 PM
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#6
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: SW USA
Posts: 2,064
Year: 2003
Coachwork: IC / Amtran
Chassis: CE300
Engine: International T444e
Rated Cap: 23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by musigenesis
Dang, I wish you knew what you did to get the fuel gauge working. Mine has never shown fuel %.
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I wish I did too.
Have any of you modified the 'performance' settings to prioritize low or medium speed data? This afternoon I hope to play around with those. I've also just scaled back my dash to exclude a number of data items I don't absolutely need to see if some of the stuff I do (like fuel pressure) come up.
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06-27-2022, 09:33 PM
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#7
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: SW USA
Posts: 2,064
Year: 2003
Coachwork: IC / Amtran
Chassis: CE300
Engine: International T444e
Rated Cap: 23
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So knocking things off one at a time. fo4 / musi... check out #1. Also read pages 71+ in the Bluefire 'Getting Started' guide if you haven't already. You might get some things working by using the 'performance' settings to prioritize low-speed data (which the fuel level is).
1) According to this post made today in an unrelated thread, there probably isn't any fuel pressure data to be had. So that would explain that (potentially).
2) Still don't know anything about turbos, but the interwebz seem to indicate I shouldn't see boost in neutral. So until I take it out on the road I dunno if the boost gauge is working or not. Fingers crossed.
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06-27-2022, 10:01 PM
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#8
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Dec 2021
Location: Davenport, IA
Posts: 674
Year: 2006
Chassis: IC CE300 (PB105)
Engine: DT466e @245hp | Allison 3000PTS
Rated Cap: 66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHubbardBus
I have zero brake system info. I assumed it's because it's not being captured (Dash has mechanical gauges that monitor air system pressure). Does that sound reasonable? Or maybe this is more data I should be getting but am not?
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Correct, the air pressure sensor and alarm is not tied to the ecm (as far as I know and have seen) so it won't have a value to show. There is a sensor in the air line for the parking brakes that feeds into the ecm but that seems to be more of an "on/off" sensor for illuminating the parking brake light on the dash than reporting any values that can be displayed numerically
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06-27-2022, 10:03 PM
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#9
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: SW USA
Posts: 2,064
Year: 2003
Coachwork: IC / Amtran
Chassis: CE300
Engine: International T444e
Rated Cap: 23
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Thanks again, Dbacks!
Do you know about the other sensors / inputs I'm missing? Specifically coolant pressure, intake air temp, & exhaust temp? I'm thinking it's likely they don't exist also, but don't want to make assumptions.
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06-27-2022, 10:06 PM
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#10
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Dec 2021
Location: Davenport, IA
Posts: 674
Year: 2006
Chassis: IC CE300 (PB105)
Engine: DT466e @245hp | Allison 3000PTS
Rated Cap: 66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHubbardBus
Thanks again, Dbacks!
Do you know about the other sensors / inputs I'm missing? Specifically coolant pressure, intake air temp, & exhaust temp? I'm thinking it's likely they don't exist also, but don't want to make assumptions.
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The data exists in servicemaxx for air intake temp and coolant pressure l, so there are sensors for that at least. I don't remember if exhaust temp one or not.
Why the bluefire isn't displaying it I can't answer. I have a bluefire I bought but don't have it hooked up in my rig yet
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06-27-2022, 10:12 PM
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#11
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: SW USA
Posts: 2,064
Year: 2003
Coachwork: IC / Amtran
Chassis: CE300
Engine: International T444e
Rated Cap: 23
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Coolio, that's good to know!
Intake air temp has displayed twice so far, briefly. Both times the value was bogus.... first waaaaayyy higher than ambient air temp (despite being just started), second waaaaay lower (2 degrees F on a 100+ degree day). Nothing from coolant pressure so far.
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06-27-2022, 10:15 PM
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#12
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Dec 2021
Location: Davenport, IA
Posts: 674
Year: 2006
Chassis: IC CE300 (PB105)
Engine: DT466e @245hp | Allison 3000PTS
Rated Cap: 66
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I should clarify my remarks that I know they exist on 2005-2007 egr models of the dt466e. I think the T444e is petty similar but I haven't verified on my 2001 triple four. I hate that bus with a passion and avoid spending time with it, haha...
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06-27-2022, 10:18 PM
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#13
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: SW USA
Posts: 2,064
Year: 2003
Coachwork: IC / Amtran
Chassis: CE300
Engine: International T444e
Rated Cap: 23
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Understood. I appreciate the clarification.
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