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Old 12-04-2020, 09:31 AM   #1
Bus Crazy
 
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Join Date: May 2017
Location: Flemingsburg, KY
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Year: 1999
Coachwork: Amtran
Chassis: International RE
Engine: International T444e
Rated Cap: 76
New Platform

Hey guys,


Just starting to put out some feelers for some rigs- one to do a transmission swap in, the other a potentially new build on. Any input appreciated, be it listings or estimates on what something would reasonably cost.



Transmission swap rig:
  • FE or RE
  • Allison 2000 series, ideally paired with a t444e.

New platform rig:
  • RE
  • 38' to 40'
  • Full underbelly
  • No rust
  • 8.3 / MD3060 or other decent engine/transmission combo
  • No problematic emissions
Closest I've seen were these:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1999-SUPER-...sAAOSwZcRftaiA


How is that price (maybe that's the norm for quality pre-emissions platforms now?) Seemed like high mileage (and _aftermarket_ DPF? Weird).

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Old 12-04-2020, 09:51 AM   #2
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Engine: cummins 12 valve
Rated Cap: 20? five rows of 4?
8.3 and 3060

There is a market place posting for a cummins 8.3 with mechanical injection and allison 3060 from a motor home says 27,000 miles for under $4,000

check around the kansas city area for the add.... picture shows engine and transmission already on a trailer.

william
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Old 12-05-2020, 01:17 AM   #3
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Rated Cap: 71 Passenger- 30,000 lbs.
Hey man ... nothing to do in Kentucky?
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Old 12-05-2020, 09:24 AM   #4
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Year: 1999
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Native View Post
Hey man ... nothing to do in Kentucky?
Hahah, on the contrary, although we have been able to do more things on on own terms, for sure.

Teamed up with bp1791-unleashed last weekend for a project, which was fun. Still need to take pics, document it here, etc.

The transmission swap shouldn't be news to anyone, I've been wanting to do it for a while. We're kind of trying to get a feel for what our options are in life, whether we want to settle down or travel more. Bus life was planned to be this transitional thing but the end product is so nice we might have trouble moving on. =)

We might have found a home base in KY, we'll see where that goes. I haven't looked around for buses in years, and it was sheer dumb luck I ended up with a rig as rust free as this (although the transmission was a miss). I never really perfected the art of rig-hunting, I'm very much a newb there despite a somewhat nice, finished conversion. Any tips help, and in the mean time I'll put that search function to good use.
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Old 12-06-2020, 04:41 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Honeydipped View Post
Alpine school district in Utah has a few rear engine pushers for sale on public surplus. A handful of Cummins ISC and some Cats with MD3060s. Some with higher milage and a few with decent milage.

https://m.publicsurplus.com/sms/list/current?orgid=217

I got my bus from Utah. While itís not a complete rust bucket, there are a couple rusty areas. Just be mindful of that. All depends on how well they were about washing the salt off.
This is a quote from a post over in non affiliated buses for sale. The school district there has a bunch of 8.3 cummins pushers for sale paired with the md3060 that you're looking for. They're 84 passenger snub nose. Auction ends tomorrow, I think.

They even have a 36 passenger that I'd love to own, but I'm not really sure how I'd get it, I've gotta work :-/
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Old 12-06-2020, 04:56 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WillGotMarried View Post
This is a quote from a post over in non affiliated buses for sale. The school district there has a bunch of 8.3 cummins pushers for sale paired with the md3060 that you're looking for. They're 84 passenger snub nose. Auction ends tomorrow, I think.

They even have a 36 passenger that I'd love to own, but I'm not really sure how I'd get it, I've gotta work :-/
Ugh @ Tomorrow... I can't move _that_ fast on these. Says some of these auctions "might extend", maybe some of them got no bids. I'll keep an eye on that thread, thanks.
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Old 12-07-2020, 02:01 PM   #7
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Looks like many of these are no-bids, so it is possible some of them will survive / be extended.

One of the problems I face trying to entertain something like this is, 10 days just does not seem like enough time to work out the logistics of transporting it to my destination (KY). Anyone have any experience / suggestions there?

I'll probably have to pass on these, even though they're exactly what I'm looking for, for that reason. If I can work that out, maybe the next one.
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Old 12-07-2020, 03:48 PM   #8
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I think for an 8.3 Cummins/MD3060 RE with no rust and understorage would be like 6k at the least. They're only getting more expensive now that the emissions era ones are starting to hit the market. There's a bunch in Utah on Public Surplus right now in Utah but they're all the standard roof height and a few of them sound like they have issues.



I got a good deal on my BB AARE since it had damage on the back cap and 2 of the understorage doors on the left side were scraped up. It also needs new brake work and front end work. Minor things to a skoolie person but it meant it wasn't going to pass Colorado state bus inspection.
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Old 12-07-2020, 04:06 PM   #9
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California is in lockdown I thought? If so then you may have a lot more time to get the bus. I would contact the seller and find out if you can even pick it up now or would have to wait, orl if they could hold it. Assuming it is a bus you really want.


Would you drive it home? or have someone get it for you?
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Old 12-07-2020, 04:08 PM   #10
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There is a member here who seems knowledgeable of driving an 8.3 with 3060 and who has often expressed willingness to deliver buses to people, perhaps Cheesewagon would help you buy and deliver an auction bus? Its worth a chat, Id say. Also keep in mind that all of those 8.3s should have cams swapped at 9000 hrs, which is circa 270k to 300k miles I'd think so you could be looking at a high priced repair early in your ownership. Just my .2, good luck man!
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Old 12-07-2020, 07:46 PM   #11
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What sort of cam shaft failure at 9000 hours does the Cummins 8.3 have?

Cam lobes? Snapped shaft?
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Old 12-07-2020, 08:17 PM   #12
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Rated Cap: 71 Passenger- 30,000 lbs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kazetsukai View Post
Looks like many of these are no-bids, so it is possible some of them will survive / be extended.

One of the problems I face trying to entertain something like this is, 10 days just does not seem like enough time to work out the logistics of transporting it to my destination (KY). Anyone have any experience / suggestions there?

I'll probably have to pass on these, even though they're exactly what I'm looking for, for that reason. If I can work that out, maybe the next one.
I'll second the thought that Malligator. presented ... ask Cheese_Wagon to make a delivery.


Also, if the buses have no bids, make one!
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Old 12-07-2020, 08:26 PM   #13
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The utah buses had previously started bidding at $500 and sold for $2000 months ago, and then they changed starting bids to $3500 might have changed the sale rate.
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Old 12-08-2020, 02:03 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bus-bro View Post
What sort of cam shaft failure at 9000 hours does the Cummins 8.3 have?

Cam lobes? Snapped shaft?
I don't know what fails frankly, I've read several places that Cummins highly recommends the Cam swap at 9000 hrs and also Cheese_wagon just had one fail on him a month or so back. I would assume that the buses that go 500k or 700k miles probably have the cam swapped between 270k and 350k, let's face it, there will be a weak link and some part swaps preventatively probably contribute to much longer usable engine life? full disclosure I've never owned an 8.3, have driven several times, did research as it was on my list of engines I'd like in my bus but I'm not an 8.3 pro by any means, just quoting knowledge I've accumulated.

I mentioned it because I think there were 5 or 6 8.3s for auction but the lowest mileage was like 240k and some were over 300k so basically you *might* have gotten 5 years without a Cam issue. Also, if you read some of the maintenance PDFs, they were worked hard and put away somewhat broken. I think 2 of them sold for around 5 or 6k, didn't get to see the winning bids. The rest you'll see again I'd guess.
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Old 12-08-2020, 02:53 PM   #15
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There's a very nice 2009 BB AARE in Frisco with an 8.3 ISC and MD3060 with retarder. Similiar specs to mine minus the factory AC and extra luggage compartment on the passenger side.



If someone can figure out an EGR delete on these buses they are very solid buys, especially if its a high HP version. Mine is one of the harder to find 315 hp variants and it scoots along on the Midwestern flats very nicely!! I would argue the later ISCs are better since they have common rail injection instead of the troublesome CAPS system.
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Old 12-09-2020, 05:55 PM   #16
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Location: Flemingsburg, KY
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Year: 1999
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Engine: International T444e
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WIbluebird View Post
There's a very nice 2009 BB AARE in Frisco with an 8.3 ISC and MD3060 with retarder. Similiar specs to mine minus the factory AC and extra luggage compartment on the passenger side.

Thank you for the lead,


Quote:
Originally Posted by WIbluebird View Post
If someone can figure out an EGR delete on these buses they are very solid buys, especially if its a high HP version. Mine is one of the harder to find 315 hp variants and it scoots along on the Midwestern flats very nicely!! I would argue the later ISCs are better since they have common rail injection instead of the troublesome CAPS system.
... and the input on these engines!

UPDATE: I just found a bus an hour away from me- a 2002 International RE with the DT466, "Allison" (no model specified) transmission. Any guesses on what that trans might be? As importantly- what kind of test(s) can be run on the fluids for the engine and transmission, and who could do them?



Its a slightly newer version of my chassis, which I think might make it a relatively simple drop-in replacement for both my T444E/AT545. Owner says the rear end is missing, someone gutted it for parts. If it runs, its in my swap strike zone even if I have to tow it.
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Old 12-09-2020, 06:47 PM   #17
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How long is the donor bus? Our '09 466 is long. It has an Allison 3000. Did they put Allison 545s on the 466ci In '02? 2k/3k series?
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Old 12-10-2020, 09:53 AM   #18
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Looks at least as long as mine, which is 38'.
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Old 12-10-2020, 12:04 PM   #19
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Look up Blackstone Labs. You send a sample of your oil in and they can analzye it for contaminants and other things like viscosity. I've been meaning to do it on mine for some time now.
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Old 12-12-2020, 03:40 PM   #20
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Engine: Cummins NHHT
I have a 1969 Crown Supercoach in Tennessee I am thinking about selling or putting an interior in and a paint job. It has a cummins that was rebuilt shortly before I got it. Allison semiautomatic transmission. 40 foot. I'm near South of Knoxville. I can take some pics tomorrow if you are interested.
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