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03-03-2020, 08:44 AM
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#1
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Skoolie
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Houston
Posts: 105
Year: 1997
Engine: Cummins 8.3
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On roof raises, why do people tuck the sheet metal behind the rub rail?
On most Blue Bird roof raises I see, people put a lot of work into tucking the sheet metal under the drip awnings up top, but then also tuck it under the rub rail below the windows. It seems like water would sheet off better if the metal went inside the drip awnings and then OUTSIDE of the rub rail down below, so that no water worked its way inside the rub rails.
Also, this would be much easier for me to do than try to bend the metal to get it inside both the awnings and the rub rails.
Is there a functional reason why I shouldn't overlay the new metal over the rub rail?
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03-03-2020, 08:51 AM
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#2
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Member
Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 60
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I'm looking at this exact situation right now on my Thomas bus. It seems like I can take the sheet metal either over or under the rub rail. If I take it under the rub rail, then it slips in nicely with some of the vertical trim pieces. Otherwise, I'll have to cut and notch it where it corners. So, it might just be a convenience thing. I'll also be using sealant in all the seems, so I'm not that concerned with water ingress at this point.
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03-03-2020, 09:29 AM
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#3
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 6,995
Year: 2003
Coachwork: International
Chassis: CE 300
Engine: DT466e
Rated Cap: 65C-43A
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Truffles
On most Blue Bird roof raises I see, people put a lot of work into tucking the sheet metal under the drip awnings up top, but then also tuck it under the rub rail below the windows. It seems like water would sheet off better if the metal went inside the drip awnings and then OUTSIDE of the rub rail down below, so that no water worked its way inside the rub rails.
Also, this would be much easier for me to do than try to bend the metal to get it inside both the awnings and the rub rails.
Is there a functional reason why I shouldn't overlay the new metal over the rub rail?
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I would think just aesthetics and a slight angle problem in terms of lining things up (your new sheet is basically going to be its own thickness plus the thickness of the rub rail stock farther out than the side sheeting). I would put it under the rub rail and rely on seam sealer to keep the joint watertight (my bus is already 1/3 Dynatron-550 so I'm done for if the stuff fails anyway).
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03-03-2020, 09:43 AM
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#4
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Eustis FLORIDA
Posts: 23,764
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Freighliner FS65
Engine: Cat 3126
Rated Cap: 15
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You get a better seal putting it under the rub rail. On top wouldn't be proper at all.
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05-13-2023, 04:32 PM
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#5
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Skoolie
Join Date: Dec 2022
Location: Greenville, SC
Posts: 130
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: TC2000
Engine: Cummins 5.9
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I’m working on my raise right now- 1991 Bluebird TC2000. I’ve had some strange gaps at the rear where panels overlap that I’ve globed some sika 221 in but it’s not aesthetically pleasing. Thankfully you can only see it from the back.
I’m working on hanging my first side skin as I type (why I’m on this thread in the first place) and in cleaning off the rub rails I sprayed some degreaser between the skin and the rub rail preparing to prime it for wet riveting. Well when I took my air hose to blast it dry, the liquid came running out the bottom of the rub rail at various points. This told me the rub rail wasn’t watertight at the seams. I’d be Interested to hear others takes but that seems good to me since I’ll be sealing it water right along the top where it meets the skin. If water somehow makes it through that seal though, it’s nice to know that it won’t be trapped in there and will be able to drip out the bottom. I thought about trying to seal up the bottom also but I think I’ll leave it as is for that reason: I want the water to be able to escape if it gets trapped.
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05-13-2023, 11:55 PM
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#6
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Skoolie
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Houston
Posts: 105
Year: 1997
Engine: Cummins 8.3
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I think you’ve got it right. The issue with sealing it up is that it will never truly be sealed air tight. Air will get in and the water will condense on cool days. It needs some way to get out the bottom.
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05-14-2023, 06:18 AM
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#7
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Andrews,Indiana
Posts: 2,430
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: AARE
Engine: 3116 Cat 250hp
Rated Cap: Just the two of us.
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The rub rails are not sealed or water proof, they have places on the bottom to let water out. The seam underneath the rub rail has the upper panel overlapping the lower panel.
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05-14-2023, 08:09 AM
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#8
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Bus Geek
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 18,755
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
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Quote:
Originally Posted by somewhereinusa
The rub rails are not sealed or water proof, they have places on the bottom to let water out. The seam underneath the rub rail has the upper panel overlapping the lower panel.
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thats always the way ive seen it done was under the rub rail over the lower panel.. seems like about the best way to do it to me..
I suppose you could put seam sealer under the top edge of the rub rail but factory busses ive seen often have nothing there just the painted surfaces riveted together and it becomes a rust point..
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05-16-2023, 02:31 PM
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#9
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Skoolie
Join Date: Dec 2022
Location: Greenville, SC
Posts: 130
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: TC2000
Engine: Cummins 5.9
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So Cadillac, are you advocating FOR putting sealant along the top edge because it becomes a rust point? Or am I reading that wrong?
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05-16-2023, 04:26 PM
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#10
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Bus Geek
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 18,755
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick5272
So Cadillac, are you advocating FOR putting sealant along the top edge because it becomes a rust point? Or am I reading that wrong?
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I think its personal choice.. the BIG thing is to make sure the weep holes at the bottom of the rub rails stay clear.. you could put sealer at the top edge to prevent most moisture from getting in there in the first place but you Must have weep holes at the bottom either way..
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05-16-2023, 08:12 PM
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#11
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: arkensas
Posts: 1,076
Year: 1997
Coachwork: bluebird
Chassis: chevy
Engine: 3116 catapillar
Rated Cap: 71 now 2 humans 1 cat
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when my wife and i did ours a 98 bluebird i put it under the drip rail on top. i primed the new metal (i used 16 gauge) before we tucked it up . then we drilled thru the rivet holes and used a 3/6 carriage bolt as it looks just like the original rivets. we then had her push out in the middle and i pried it behind the rub rail. more drilling (about 1,000 holes with a cobalt bit) only using 3 drill bits for all those holes so get a cobalt. sound like hard work? at the time we did it over xmas time in davenport iowa our combined age was 128 years
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05-16-2023, 08:14 PM
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#12
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: arkensas
Posts: 1,076
Year: 1997
Coachwork: bluebird
Chassis: chevy
Engine: 3116 catapillar
Rated Cap: 71 now 2 humans 1 cat
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it was a mild winter that year thank (schoolie) god. top row is original rivets bottom is carriage bolts
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05-16-2023, 08:19 PM
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#13
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: arkensas
Posts: 1,076
Year: 1997
Coachwork: bluebird
Chassis: chevy
Engine: 3116 catapillar
Rated Cap: 71 now 2 humans 1 cat
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i taught her how to shoot primer
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05-16-2023, 08:21 PM
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#14
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: arkensas
Posts: 1,076
Year: 1997
Coachwork: bluebird
Chassis: chevy
Engine: 3116 catapillar
Rated Cap: 71 now 2 humans 1 cat
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do it right the first time
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05-18-2023, 09:58 AM
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#15
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Skoolie
Join Date: Dec 2022
Location: Greenville, SC
Posts: 130
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: TC2000
Engine: Cummins 5.9
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Mmoore, I really like the carriage bolt idea. Hadn’t thought about doing that. Do you remember how long your bolts were? And what did you use on the back? Nylock nut? Lock washer? Anything in particular? And how’d you seal them? Thanks!
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05-18-2023, 11:38 AM
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#16
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: arkensas
Posts: 1,076
Year: 1997
Coachwork: bluebird
Chassis: chevy
Engine: 3116 catapillar
Rated Cap: 71 now 2 humans 1 cat
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We used a flat washer and a nut but also used a artist brush to put locktite (red) on each nut. Using a screw gun set to the proper torque she tightened each one while I hammered them in. I did use a square punch to get the round holes square first.i did also put a bit of good caulk around each hole also before installing the bolt. I have had issues with rivets staying tight is why I did it this way. 4 years later and in Arkansas monsoon season (record rainfall this year) and I'm dry inside
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05-18-2023, 11:39 AM
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#17
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: arkensas
Posts: 1,076
Year: 1997
Coachwork: bluebird
Chassis: chevy
Engine: 3116 catapillar
Rated Cap: 71 now 2 humans 1 cat
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Do a lot of shopping for 3/16 x 3/4 with washers and nuts as prices vary a lot
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05-18-2023, 11:40 AM
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#18
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: arkensas
Posts: 1,076
Year: 1997
Coachwork: bluebird
Chassis: chevy
Engine: 3116 catapillar
Rated Cap: 71 now 2 humans 1 cat
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Sorry locktite on bolt not nut
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