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09-15-2013, 12:05 PM
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#1
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Traveling
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Virginia
Posts: 2,302
Year: None
Coachwork: None
Chassis: None
Engine: None
Rated Cap: None
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Original Floors... Pros/Cons of Stripping VS Replacement?
Hi all...
Being in reality, an old veteran who is starting over after losing both my bus and my old account, I have, I feel, a rather pertinent question when it comes to preparing and modifying the original floor in your bus...
Another member with a fairly late-model (relative term, I consider early 90s to be late-model vs the 60s-70s gassers I grew up with) bus based on a Ford E-van chassis took an interesting approach to their build by completely gutting the floor and rebuilding it. Granted, they didn't have much choice due to rot in several crossmembers that would have been a real problem later, but it got me thinking...
How much time does the average skoolie builder spend ripping up the original rubber flooring, sanding/repairing the metal, and priming to prevent rust from returning, before finally getting down to business and building the rest of the bus to their tastes? Seems to me that maybe we should just CUT the lion's share of the original floor out and replace it with new steel built to our specifications, could save a lot of time that would be better spent on other things.
That way, stripping would only be necessary at the edge of the four walls, and the frame could be cleaned/sanded/painted as well if so desired. Could also mock up plumbing and electrical before replacing the floor... And would prevent any surprise problems with hidden rust at a later date, as well. Any thoughts?
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09-15-2013, 02:04 PM
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#2
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Cleburne TX
Posts: 692
Year: 2001
Chassis: International Amtran RE
Engine: DT466E/MD3060
Rated Cap: 78
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Re: Original Floors... Pros/Cons of Stripping VS Replacement
All very good points of what you bring up. I think a lot depends on where your bus is from? Being in a southern region we do not have the issues with body rot that my fellow northeners do.
Mine being a 1983 model has some smaller surface rust but nothing like I have seen from other people who bought buses north of the mason Dixon line?
I think another issue is the cost of steel. Seems some people get the most killer of deals on scrap and parts? Not sure how much my soul is worth (as I sold it when I got married 16 years ago) so I don't think its worth much any more... but it would be nice to find some of the killer deals others seem to find here there and everywhere.
What your thinking does make sense but in my case would not be as practical.
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09-15-2013, 02:11 PM
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#3
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Traveling
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Virginia
Posts: 2,302
Year: None
Coachwork: None
Chassis: None
Engine: None
Rated Cap: None
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Re: Original Floors... Pros/Cons of Stripping VS Replacement
I'm just thinking that when you replace the floor and build it to your specifications, you can double-layer it, insulating your plumbing in between the floor layers to prevent freezing (a good idea for full-timers)... Just a thought. I understand that not all buses will have these issues, and not all of us will be able to take on such tasks without breaking the bank, but it's one of those things you don't really know until you actually rip it up, and I'm sure there are a few who have spent countless hours scraping, grinding, etc... that probably wish they had just cut the whole floor out and replaced it...
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09-15-2013, 05:11 PM
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#4
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Cleburne TX
Posts: 692
Year: 2001
Chassis: International Amtran RE
Engine: DT466E/MD3060
Rated Cap: 78
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Re: Original Floors... Pros/Cons of Stripping VS Replacement
If I had to cut it all out that's how I would do it. To me this is the WHOLE reason behind getting a bus vs a travel trailer. Cause I can make it how I want it. Plus knowing what I know now
the bus is a lot stronger and safer.
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09-18-2013, 05:49 AM
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#5
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: MNT CITY TN
Posts: 5,158
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Re: Original Floors... Pros/Cons of Stripping VS Replacement
for me the deciding factor to not do anything to the floor was I wanted to use her....I can replace any metal needed,,,I just did not want a yard ornament for 2 or more years...since we work way too much "for the man"
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we do not like cold period, so extra insulation was not a want/priority
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bottom side looked good no rust thru, and I do know that in 10/15 years holes in the floor is a realty
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I am doing this to enjoy,it hasn't set for more than a month w/o a trip (except winter)
this winter My plan is to strip out the bedroom and cut up the floor for the bathroom,,,,then I will address floor issues as they arise
so I say if you want to cut out old floor and lower it go for it, if you want to cut it out and triple insulate ..well go for it...that is what makes a skoolie great...we as a people can do what we want and the haters...well can be haters
__________________
Our build La Tortuga
Accept the challenges so that you can feel the exhilaration of victory.
George S. Patton
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09-18-2013, 10:31 AM
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#6
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Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: NUNYA
Posts: 4,236
Year: 1995
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: 3800
Engine: DT408, AT545
Rated Cap: 23 500 gvw
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Re: Original Floors... Pros/Cons of Stripping VS Replacement
My bus is pretty much rust free...except under the plywood. Between the wheelchair door, the windows and the kids, the plywood was mush. It was soaked. The water was at least 10 years old. I know because I had it carbon dated. The only thing keeping the rubber down was a few screws and gravity. To build on top of that would have crime and really stupid. So I ripped up the floor. Half of it anyway. So for me it wasn't a choice, just something that had to be done.
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09-18-2013, 08:03 PM
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#7
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Central Tennessee
Posts: 1,093
Year: 1973
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: All American
Engine: CAT 1160 V-8 Diesel
Rated Cap: 72
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Re: Original Floors... Pros/Cons of Stripping VS Replacement
I certainly went the easy way with my 1973 BlueBird. I looked under the bus, and I did not find any rust. The bus came from Tennessee. There was no plywood on the floor. I just laid down 3/4 inch blue board insulation, then siliconed 3/4 inch hardwood flooring. I think it will last a long time. I must say that my dogs have scratched up the floor a lot.
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09-18-2013, 10:23 PM
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#8
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Stony Plain Alberta Canada
Posts: 2,937
Year: 1992
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: TC2000 FE
Engine: 190hp 5.9 Cummins
Rated Cap: 72
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Re: Original Floors... Pros/Cons of Stripping VS Replacement
I'm currently replacing part of the floor in a 92 TC 2000. I will post pics, things I'm changing, and why tomorrow.
For now, I post this diagram showing how a 92 bluebird is put together. Both buses I've had the opportunity of dismantling have been 92 Blue Birds. Look closely at how the layers are put together. This information is here to assist you in your decision of which option will be best for you.
Nat
__________________
"Don't argue with stupid people. They will just drag you down to their level, and beat you up with experience."
Patently waiting for the apocalypses to level the playing field in this physiological game of life commonly known as Civilization
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09-21-2013, 09:09 PM
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#9
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Stony Plain Alberta Canada
Posts: 2,937
Year: 1992
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: TC2000 FE
Engine: 190hp 5.9 Cummins
Rated Cap: 72
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Re: Original Floors... Pros/Cons of Stripping VS Replacement
__________________
"Don't argue with stupid people. They will just drag you down to their level, and beat you up with experience."
Patently waiting for the apocalypses to level the playing field in this physiological game of life commonly known as Civilization
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09-21-2013, 09:11 PM
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#10
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Stony Plain Alberta Canada
Posts: 2,937
Year: 1992
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: TC2000 FE
Engine: 190hp 5.9 Cummins
Rated Cap: 72
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Re: Original Floors... Pros/Cons of Stripping VS Replacement
__________________
"Don't argue with stupid people. They will just drag you down to their level, and beat you up with experience."
Patently waiting for the apocalypses to level the playing field in this physiological game of life commonly known as Civilization
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09-21-2013, 09:13 PM
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#11
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Stony Plain Alberta Canada
Posts: 2,937
Year: 1992
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: TC2000 FE
Engine: 190hp 5.9 Cummins
Rated Cap: 72
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Re: Original Floors... Pros/Cons of Stripping VS Replacement
__________________
"Don't argue with stupid people. They will just drag you down to their level, and beat you up with experience."
Patently waiting for the apocalypses to level the playing field in this physiological game of life commonly known as Civilization
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09-21-2013, 09:16 PM
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#12
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Stony Plain Alberta Canada
Posts: 2,937
Year: 1992
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: TC2000 FE
Engine: 190hp 5.9 Cummins
Rated Cap: 72
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Re: Original Floors... Pros/Cons of Stripping VS Replacement
__________________
"Don't argue with stupid people. They will just drag you down to their level, and beat you up with experience."
Patently waiting for the apocalypses to level the playing field in this physiological game of life commonly known as Civilization
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09-21-2013, 09:18 PM
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#13
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Stony Plain Alberta Canada
Posts: 2,937
Year: 1992
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: TC2000 FE
Engine: 190hp 5.9 Cummins
Rated Cap: 72
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Re: Original Floors... Pros/Cons of Stripping VS Replacement
__________________
"Don't argue with stupid people. They will just drag you down to their level, and beat you up with experience."
Patently waiting for the apocalypses to level the playing field in this physiological game of life commonly known as Civilization
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09-21-2013, 09:32 PM
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#14
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Stony Plain Alberta Canada
Posts: 2,937
Year: 1992
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: TC2000 FE
Engine: 190hp 5.9 Cummins
Rated Cap: 72
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Re: Original Floors... Pros/Cons of Stripping VS Replacement
One more flaw that allows corrosion to take hold. This is where sections of the floor are attached together.
To replace the floor around the engine, and under the drivers feet would be a pain. Every instrument on the dash, the parking break, steering, brake reservoir, heaters, fans, ect would have to be removed and reinstalled.
I removed the 90,000 BTU heater so I could rework the floor in that spot, and regain the leg room for my wife.
A piece of the rusted side skin, and the fuel tank access in the floor. The space between the fuel tank and the floor was packed completely solid with dirt and salt, causing corrosion.
Inside the back clip.
Out side of the rear clip.
Nat
__________________
"Don't argue with stupid people. They will just drag you down to their level, and beat you up with experience."
Patently waiting for the apocalypses to level the playing field in this physiological game of life commonly known as Civilization
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09-21-2013, 09:45 PM
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#15
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: West Lafayette, IN
Posts: 832
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Thomas
Engine: 3126
Rated Cap: 72
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Re: Original Floors... Pros/Cons of Stripping VS Replacement
I have seen horror movies that weren't this scary.
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09-21-2013, 11:09 PM
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#16
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: from: Prescott, AZ currently: Denver, CO
Posts: 469
Year: 1992
Coachwork: BlueBird
Chassis: All American RE
Engine: 8.3 Cummins
Rated Cap: 72
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Re: Original Floors... Pros/Cons of Stripping VS Replacement
Ya..... that was pretty intense.
__________________
Ryan
Bluebird All American RE: Great White Buffalo (gone but not forgotten)
Our build thread: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=10065
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09-21-2013, 11:19 PM
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#17
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Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: NUNYA
Posts: 4,236
Year: 1995
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: 3800
Engine: DT408, AT545
Rated Cap: 23 500 gvw
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Re: Original Floors... Pros/Cons of Stripping VS Replacement
Quote:
Originally Posted by wmkbailey
I have seen horror movies that weren't this scary.
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X2. I think I'm going to have nightmares tonight. Nat, why are you starting with a bus in that condition. Did you get it for cheap. I can't imagine the amount of time and expense required to fix it.
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10-01-2013, 09:48 AM
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#18
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Stony Plain Alberta Canada
Posts: 2,937
Year: 1992
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: TC2000 FE
Engine: 190hp 5.9 Cummins
Rated Cap: 72
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Re: Original Floors... Pros/Cons of Stripping VS Replacement
Quote:
Originally Posted by crazycal
Quote:
Originally Posted by wmkbailey
I have seen horror movies that weren't this scary.
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X2. I think I'm going to have nightmares tonight. Nat, why are you starting with a bus in that condition. Did you get it for cheap. I can't imagine the amount of time and expense required to fix it.
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The sad thing is, it's not nearly as bad as I made it look. It's the way I took the pics.
I payed $2000 for it. I wanted a flat nose, and it was the best of the bunch. It has also been a great leaning experience. Even if I decide not to convert it, I can still sell the drive train for more than I payed. There are also quite a few parts I need for my Haul All. And I love collecting mechanical Cummins engines. This makes number 4.
Where did the OP go. It feels kind of lonely in here.
Nat
__________________
"Don't argue with stupid people. They will just drag you down to their level, and beat you up with experience."
Patently waiting for the apocalypses to level the playing field in this physiological game of life commonly known as Civilization
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10-01-2013, 11:09 AM
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#19
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Skoolie
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Southeast raleigh
Posts: 221
Year: 1974
Coachwork: Crown
Chassis: Supercoach
Engine: Detroit Diesel 6-71
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Re: Original Floors... Pros/Cons of Stripping VS Replacement
Good grief that is one rusty bus!!!! I thank my lucky stars we got a bus from California. There's is some minimal surface rust around the front windows and on the back seat rest from where the rear window has leaked for years, but nothing a wire wheel and some ospho can't handle.
We were going to pull up the entire rubber floor, decided to only do the rear because the wood below the rubber is in excellent condition. If we had a regular bus, we would have pulled the rubber and plywood to paint the metal floor. Crown only has a frame and marine grade plywood.
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10-01-2013, 07:44 PM
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#20
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Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: NUNYA
Posts: 4,236
Year: 1995
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: 3800
Engine: DT408, AT545
Rated Cap: 23 500 gvw
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Re: Original Floors... Pros/Cons of Stripping VS Replacement
Quote:
Originally Posted by nat_ster
Quote:
Originally Posted by crazycal
Quote:
Originally Posted by wmkbailey
I have seen horror movies that weren't this scary.
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X2. I think I'm going to have nightmares tonight. Nat, why are you starting with a bus in that condition. Did you get it for cheap. I can't imagine the amount of time and expense required to fix it.
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The sad thing is, it's not nearly as bad as I made it look. It's the way I took the pics.
I payed $2000 for it. I wanted a flat nose, and it was the best of the bunch. It has also been a great leaning experience. Even if I decide not to convert it, I can still sell the drive train for more than I payed. There are also quite a few parts I need for my Haul All. And I love collecting mechanical Cummins engines. This makes number 4.
Where did the OP go. It feels kind of lonely in here.
Nat
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I agree you will do ok parts/money wise but time wise, it will take many hours to fix all that rust.
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