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Old 12-31-2020, 04:51 PM   #21
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Not trying to hijack, but can't tell you how helpful & timely this is for us, Jazty. You just saved us much time & frustration!


Couple questions if you don't mind (think Kaleth could benefit as well otherwise I'd ask elsewhere):


1) Our driver's window has 2 such holes already built into the lower edge of the aluminum window frame itself. Any reason not to duplicate that in the side windows w/ a dremel?


2) Probably a stupid question: Why have sealant along the lower (external) edge at all if you're draining out that area anyway?

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Old 12-31-2020, 04:52 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaleth2 View Post
It seems like our back leak is stronger than what would come from that kind of seepage
If there's one thing I've learned from chasing down my leaks, it's that an astonishing amount of water can come in through really tiny holes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaleth2 View Post
The drilled holes I referenced. Are through the floor in the window well. Wondering if they had a chronic leak problem they solved by use drilling a couple holes so the water would drain out.
If the hole is through the bottom of the window well, that would allow water inside the bus which would be no bueno. If it's through the front piece like in jazty's example, that makes total sense.
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Old 12-31-2020, 04:54 PM   #23
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Ah, I thought you meant a weep hole on the bottom of the sill, so that water would flow down inside the bus. Your weep hole location makes sense and I may try that on my one front window that is still leaking.

Good thing I clarified with a photo! 1000 words and so on...
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Old 12-31-2020, 04:56 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHubbardBus View Post
1) Our driver's window has 2 such holes already built into the lower edge of the aluminum window frame itself. Any reason not to duplicate that in the side windows w/ a dremel?
I don't see why not. If it seems sensible, go for it! Just play the game of "mental water". If water gets in, over, through, will it's escape path be to the outside?


Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHubbardBus View Post
2) Probably a stupid question: Why have sealant along the lower (external) edge at all if you're draining out that area anyway?
You can omit the lower caulking altogether, I'm sure. On my Thomas there is actually a sizable gap below the window. Probably about 3/16". I caulked that gap to keep the wind from whistling through.
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Old 12-31-2020, 08:12 PM   #25
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Weíre thinking the weep holes will be helpful for air circulation after we insulate and start on the interior build. Hope you figure out your leak!
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Old 12-31-2020, 08:15 PM   #26
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I saw a youtube on how to replace that glass gasket. On the windows we have, FS Bluebird 2002, thereís no easy way to do it:/ Have to pull window out, disassemble frame and then rewrap the window with the new gasket and put the window frame back together. Itís an easy disassembly, just very time consuming to do!
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Old 01-01-2021, 08:44 PM   #27
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Here's another thought. Try checking around any and all light housings on / in the roof, including the amber / reds especially if there was a roof-mounted beacon from service as a school bus. They should have gaskets to prevent leakage, and could be the problem if the gaskets are weak or rotted. Plenty of potential for water to get in there, they are right in the line of fire. Do NOT remove these lights, they are required for vehicles over a certain width / height / length. A healthy dose of RTV or silicone should fix any leaks in these without making servicing them a problem in the future.
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Old 01-02-2021, 07:46 AM   #28
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Here's another thought. Try checking around any and all light housings on / in the roof, including the amber / reds especially if there was a roof-mounted beacon from service as a school bus. They should have gaskets to prevent leakage, and could be the problem if the gaskets are weak or rotted. Plenty of potential for water to get in there, they are right in the line of fire. Do NOT remove these lights, they are required for vehicles over a certain width / height / length. A healthy dose of RTV or silicone should fix any leaks in these without making servicing them a problem in the future.
I would strongly second this suggestion. On my back end, every light was leaking - obvious from the literal rivers of rust running down the inside from each opening. The rubber gaskets had all shrunk and hardened (or the paper gaskets had rotted away) and the metal plates in the flasher lights had mostly rusted away. Huge source of potential water ingress.
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Old 01-02-2021, 02:01 PM   #29
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Thanks for all the suggestions! We now have a dry bus!

Thanks so much for all of your responses! Gave me a boost of energy and resolve to get back out there and explore with new eyes. I sealed all rivets that were connected to the roof rib that had water dripping out from the bottom into the window well and solved that one. Looks like hell, but, when we paint with Henryís thatíll be solved. Then I went over the the rib the same way. In the process, I discovered that the tape over the stop sign mount holes had peeled away in the rain and water was getting in there. Iím going to remount that stop sign after I play with the message and turn it into art, so, I temporarily resealed that, and now the bus is dry...Yay Definately peace of mind here in Oregon!
Happy New Year!!!
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Old 01-06-2021, 03:40 PM   #30
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So glad to be seeing this thread. I canít imagine the frustration you must be feeling after all of that work! We did a bunch of hoes tests early in the spring and again in the summer but they somehow did not shine a light on the leaks that are now flooding into my bus during the winter rains in the Sierra foothills. And now that it is wet and raining it is really hard to get these things sealed. I have already installed my subfloor sprayInsulated the walls and ceiling, and luckily was just able to get my woodstove installed in time but it is a constant game of trying to keep it dry and keep my woodwork and framing and subfloor from molding. Iím under the impression that when this was a commercial school bus the way the insulation and walls were constructed, it appeared as though water was expected to flow through the walls and out the bottom. I have tried different types of sealant but even the best ones get washed away in the rain before they can dry. Iím still trying to read through all of the helpful posts and responses here, but this is definitely an area that needs a true expert!
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Old 01-06-2021, 09:56 PM   #31
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Henryís tropicool isnít all its cracked up to be. It will help seal if your roof is leaking but it wonít seal anything big. The problem with it is it holds dirt and looks very dirty. Itís also very hard to clean, you canít just use a spray car wash, you have to wash with a cloth. Then it just gets dirty again very quickly. It wouldíve been way better if I just painted my roof white. I only had one or two leaks on my roof so maybe itís worth it if you have lots.
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Old 01-07-2021, 07:25 AM   #32
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I used that gimmicky looking clear FlexSeal spray on my exterior caulk along the bottom of the glass. It worked! For about $13. a can, I touch up all 22 windows about twice per year in about 10 minutes.
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Old 01-07-2021, 07:48 AM   #33
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For amusement purposes only...

You should NEVER allow anything to drive you crazy.

It's not far... the walk would be good for you!
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Old 01-07-2021, 08:43 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaleth2 View Post
In the process, I discovered that the tape over the stop sign mount holes had peeled away in the rain and water was getting in there. Iím going to remount that stop sign after I play with the message and turn it into art, so, I temporarily resealed that, and now the bus is dry...Yay Definately peace of mind here in Oregon!
Happy New Year!!!
What did you use as a temporary seal? Will an residue create issues with painting the bus later?
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Old 01-07-2021, 06:21 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by freeandeasywanderer View Post
So glad to be seeing this thread. I canít imagine the frustration you must be feeling after all of that work! We did a bunch of hoes tests early in the spring and again in the summer but they somehow did not shine a light on the leaks that are now flooding into my bus during the winter rains in the Sierra foothills. And now that it is wet and raining it is really hard to get these things sealed. I have already installed my subfloor sprayInsulated the walls and ceiling, and luckily was just able to get my woodstove installed in time but it is a constant game of trying to keep it dry and keep my woodwork and framing and subfloor from molding. Iím under the impression that when this was a commercial school bus the way the insulation and walls were constructed, it appeared as though water was expected to flow through the walls and out the bottom. I have tried different types of sealant but even the best ones get washed away in the rain before they can dry. Iím still trying to read through all of the helpful posts and responses here, but this is definitely an area that needs a true expert!
Iím so sorry that youíre having to deal with that! I wish I were the expert to help. After this last massive rain the leak reappeared Grateful it seems to be less.
I read about some sealants that are supposed to cure under water. I wonder if you googled that? We use slowed our build way down and have planned how to continue without closing the walls up until we fix them.
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Old 01-07-2021, 06:22 PM   #36
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What did you use as a temporary seal? Will an residue create issues with painting the bus later?
I just used some really good utility tape. It will leave a residue when you pull it off. I clean that up with some acetone fairly easily.
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Old 02-01-2021, 11:25 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by Kaleth2 View Post
Hi folks, am so tired of leaks I could almost give up. I have seam sealed all seams with dynetron 550, we have taken out cleaned polished and reinstalled all windows with butyl tape and flashing sealant, we have done numerous hose checks from the bottom of the bus to the top to try and isolate where leaks start, and I’ve gone back over rivets that appeared to be a problem, I have gone over all the old window frames and put dynatron in pinholes at corners of window where glass meets weatherstripping in case the actual aluminum frame might be leaking.

We still have one slow drip (there are drilled holes in that window well for the water to leak out that we didn’t put there) and, we still have a bit of discoloration in window wells that look like a small amount of dampness. The one drip is coming from one of the u shaped roof ribs and dripping out of the bottom of that so I can’t see behind that rib to determine where the water is coming in. The seam over that has already been sealed
We don’t plan to spend a lot of winter rain time in the PNW when the bus is finished. Is a tiny bit of leaking in the window well, where there are weep holes going to create a problem? We’re wondering... with the heat pump on low, running off of the solar panels when it’s parked here in the rain, could keep it mold free?

Thanks,
Karen
I now feel your pain! I have ready thru this thread and wonder if anything recommended has helped of even fixed your situation? Did the heater keep the moisture at-bay?

We hose checked over the summer while we were gutting and roughing in also when i washed the outside several times preparing for exterior painting, but now winter weather has hit un in the sierra foothills in N. Cal and now there are leaks everywhere! We DO plan to spend a lot of time in Vancouver and the PNW year round (visit family and sick of the cali fire season! hot dry and ready to burn you up). I've had to rip up a large portion of my already complete subfloor and insulation, and just cant seem to get a handle on the leaks. I even covered the whole bus in a giant tarp, which stopped 2 spots, but the other 2 are still leaking!..? HOOOWWWW?

Although we haven't put our finished walls in, we have spray foamed the entire framing. There is a lot of condensation everyday but i dont think that is the issue. The exterior window framing seems to "lap" over the bottom sill and leaves a crack where i think the water is coming in. I made the mistake of trying Clear Silicone around the exterior of the windows which never could dry in the winter temps/weather conditions before it rained again and washed it all away. The only upside to that is that now ive seen the caulk filled water flow in where i suspected the leaks were. I've added pictures of the area i'm referring to, outside, inside close up and inside perspective.

My issue is I've gone and framed over all the interior window sills and frames, then spray foamed. so back tracking to remove the windows would almost be undoing all of my work to date. In an effort to avoid that i want to try some suggestions from this thread. I just dont know where to start.. seal outside frames with Dynatron 550? caulk literally everything on the outside? take out all my windows and start over?

This Forum is a savior for the many woes encountered in day to day skoolie-build-landia
Attached Images
File Type: jpg sill lapping inside.jpg (275.5 KB, 5 views)
File Type: jpg sill lapping.jpg (167.7 KB, 3 views)
File Type: jpg inside sill lapping.jpg (166.0 KB, 4 views)
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Old 02-01-2021, 03:08 PM   #38
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I've just posted these images, but re-sharing them because I'm now convinced this is where the water is coming from. I circled the areas in RED

Image 1 is the exterior lapping
Image 2 is the inside of that window framing
Image 3 is a close up of the under/inside of that window framing/lapping.

When I dug out the spray foam it was full of water like a sponge. Because it was coming out near a rib, we thought it was condensation collecting and running down the rib into the wall as others have suggested in this thread and other threads. But the water that came out of the sprayfoam "sponge" was full of the white silicone I tried to seal the exterior with (I know better than to use silicone now!). If the Dynatron 550 doesn't work for exterior sealing, than what are some other options that are tried and tested?

Attached Images
File Type: png 210201-1256-RJB-Photos.png (1.13 MB, 2 views)
File Type: jpg 210201-1257-RJB-Photos.jpg (144.3 KB, 2 views)
File Type: png 210201-1258-RJB-Photos.png (1.88 MB, 2 views)
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Old 02-01-2021, 10:41 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freeandeasywanderer View Post
I've just posted these images, but re-sharing them because I'm now convinced this is where the water is coming from. I circled the areas in RED

Image 1 is the exterior lapping
Image 2 is the inside of that window framing
Image 3 is a close up of the under/inside of that window framing/lapping.

When I dug out the spray foam it was full of water like a sponge. Because it was coming out near a rib, we thought it was condensation collecting and running down the rib into the wall as others have suggested in this thread and other threads. But the water that came out of the sprayfoam "sponge" was full of the white silicone I tried to seal the exterior with (I know better than to use silicone now!). If the Dynatron 550 doesn't work for exterior sealing, than what are some other options that are tried and tested?

Rats! You are dealing with much more than us. We still have one rib leaking at bottom, but, we havenít built anything out that we might have to tear out. Thatís gotta be daunting. I read that Dynatron 550 wasnít good to use on windows because then super hard to take apart, and/or fix and replace if need be. Dynatron a great seam sealer though...used it on all my seams. When we resealed our windows, we completely removed them, stripped them of all adhesive, sanded and cleaned them, then reinstalled them with butyl tape and sealed them them to make sure no leaks. Even after that we found some weatherstripping around the glass needed sealing, which we used window glazing on. I honestly donít know how to troubleshoot after itís been spray foamed. We, living in a rainy state, were super careful not to do any building until our leaks were troubleshot. Weíre still completely flummoxed in the last one and havenít installed wall insulation yet. Weíre focusing on moving forward where we can without it getting wet. I wish I had some words of wisdom for you. You might have to go back and do some testing out.
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Old 02-02-2021, 08:15 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by Kaleth2 View Post
Hi folks, am so tired of leaks I could almost give up. I have seam sealed all seams with dynetron 550, we have taken out cleaned polished and reinstalled all windows with butyl tape and flashing sealant, we have done numerous hose checks from the bottom of the bus to the top to try and isolate where leaks start, and Iíve gone back over rivets that appeared to be a problem, I have gone over all the old window frames and put dynatron in pinholes at corners of window where glass meets weatherstripping in case the actual aluminum frame might be leaking. We are planning to put Henryís tropical on the roof after the roof deck and mini stove vent are installed.

We still have one slow drip (there are drilled holes in that window well for the water to leak out that we didnít put there) and, we still have a bit of discoloration in window wells that look like a small amount of dampness. The one drip is coming from one of the u shaped roof ribs and dripping out of the bottom of that so I canít see behind that rib to determine where the water is coming in. The seam over that has already been sealed
I have gotten so sick from mold in the past refinishing a shower for a friend and donít want to risk mold growth. We donít plan to spend a lot of winter rain time in the PNW when the bus is finished. Is a tiny bit of leaking in the window well, where there are weep holes going to create a problem? Weíre wondering... with the heat pump on low, running off of the solar panels when itís parked here in the rain, could keep it mold free?
Any encouragement and words of wisdom would be so welcome right now!
Thanks,
Karen

So, do you know if this u shape rib is void inside the U? In other words, if there is any sort of material inside the other U shape ribs, but this one was left void for some reason like a flashing light wire etc., it will be the one rib that will condensate.
I'm only an hour drive north of you, so I know the rain, condensation, humidity etc. very well. One thing that I learned years ago is using any cyclical heat source like a furnace on a thermostat etc. will exacerbate the moisture issue, not solve it. A constant low heat like from a pellet stove or other heat source that does not turn off and on in a cyclical temperature control, will help keep condensation away.

You've sealed everything. Though it can always still be outside moisture coming in though a leak that wicks the water into the vehicle, it is more likely to be condensation from a cold metal spot. Wicking moisture is like a bad ground on a battery connection. It can cause all sorts of good component replacement and huge expense only to find out that that one grounding spot on the frame had corrosion under it. The moisture between metal surfaces can be either wicked from a distance away, or condensation from a small void space.

If you have a IR temp gun (harbor freight sells them too) see what if any differential temp there is at the wet U channel compared to the rest.
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