Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 06-10-2019, 09:19 PM   #1
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 41
Pros/cons of van style shorty vs dog nose shorty

Ya know, the Ford/Chevy van ones where the front part is a regular van? Dog nose as in like a full size bus, but short. NOT a van cutaway.

JoeNesquik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2019, 09:39 PM   #2
Bus Crazy
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 1,349
Year: 1990
Coachwork: Thomas 4 window w/lift
Chassis: G30~Chevy cutaway
Engine: 5.7/350 Chevy Vortec
Rated Cap: Just me and my "stuff"?
Interior space and carrying capacity are the 2 biggies. Obviously the van is smaller and has less weight carrying or towing capacity than a diesel dog nosed shorty.

Many other differences come into play when selecting the right vehicle that meets your needs. Plenty of great info on here regarding both types if you search it out.

I like the gas power of the van cutaway and ease of finding parts and garages to work on it.
On the flip side, with a diesel powered bus, the added issues of trying to find somewhere to get parts and fixed IF a breakdown were to occur out on the open road far away from my home shop outweigh any of the benefits found in a diesel.
The use of the internet is making parts locating faster and easier while sitting on the side of a hiway somewhere, but if something heavy needs to be shipped by truck vs UPS/Fedex be prepared to shell out some $$ and extend your wait wherever that might be. Towing also might come into play.

If you are able to work on either/both variants, the above points are basically moot.
Good luck in your search...
peteg59 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2019, 09:40 PM   #3
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 41
Thanks for that, what’s moot?
JoeNesquik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2019, 09:48 PM   #4
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 2,831
Year: 2007
Coachwork: Thomas Built
Chassis: Minotour
Engine: Chevy Express 3500 6.6l
Cutaway pros

I don’t know if this is entirely true, but none of the “grocery getter” transmissions like the Allison 545 to worry about. Every “big” little bus I found had that transmission.

Better fuel economy

In California, staying below 14001 GVWR, gets around the particulate filter rules without having to change the title to MH

Cutaway cons:

Getting to the engine to work on it. Expect to take the whole thing apart to work on it. This is a big con!
Danjo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2019, 09:49 PM   #5
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danjo View Post
Cutaway pros

I don’t know if this is entirely true, but none of the “grocery getter” transmissions like the Allison 545 to worry about. Every “big” little bus I found had that transmission.

Better fuel economy

In California, staying below 14001 GVWR, gets around the particulate filter rules without having to change the title to MH

Cutaway cons:

Getting to the engine to work on it. Expect to take the whole thing apart to work on it. This is a big con!


Forgive my stupidity, what is a grocery getter transmission?
JoeNesquik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2019, 09:50 PM   #6
Bus Crazy
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 1,349
Year: 1990
Coachwork: Thomas 4 window w/lift
Chassis: G30~Chevy cutaway
Engine: 5.7/350 Chevy Vortec
Rated Cap: Just me and my "stuff"?
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeNesquik View Post
Thanks for that, what’s moot?
Just a fancy word for never mind what was just said.
peteg59 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2019, 09:53 PM   #7
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by peteg59 View Post
Just a fancy word for never mind what was just said.


Thanks. Im bad at phrases with stuff like that too
JoeNesquik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2019, 09:59 PM   #8
Bus Crazy
 
HazMatt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: E Central Tejas
Posts: 2,094
Year: 1998
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: IH 3800, 8 window
Engine: T444E w/ Spicer 5-speed MT
Rated Cap: I prefer broad-brims hats
That what a cow asks when she doesn't understand. [emoji849]
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeNesquik View Post
Thanks for that, what’s moot?
Not adept at freeway travel, works better at town speeds.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeNesquik View Post
Forgive my stupidity, what is a grocery getter transmission?
The only stupid question is the one unasked...
__________________
Those who say that it cannot be done should not interrupt the people doing it.
HazMatt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2019, 10:05 PM   #9
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 2,831
Year: 2007
Coachwork: Thomas Built
Chassis: Minotour
Engine: Chevy Express 3500 6.6l
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeNesquik View Post
Forgive my stupidity, what is a grocery getter transmission?
That’s a tongue in cheek commentary on that transmission that has no lockout/overdrive so not good in the mountains. The kind, more experienced people on this site turned me on to that info
Danjo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2019, 10:06 PM   #10
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danjo View Post
That’s a tongue in cheek commentary on that transmission that has no lockout/overdrive so not good in the mountains. The kind, more experienced people on this site turned me on to that info


Oh. Would it make it through without damage or would it get destroyed in hills?
JoeNesquik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2019, 10:37 PM   #11
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 2,831
Year: 2007
Coachwork: Thomas Built
Chassis: Minotour
Engine: Chevy Express 3500 6.6l
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeNesquik View Post
Oh. Would it make it through without damage or would it get destroyed in hills?
Transmission not much good to slow you down on the downhills. Search on AT 545. Maybe just typing that will make someone chime in
Danjo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2019, 10:38 PM   #12
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danjo View Post
Transmission not much good to slow you down on the downhills. Search on AT 545. Maybe just typing that will make someone chime in


Would a jake break still be effective?
JoeNesquik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2019, 11:08 PM   #13
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 2,831
Year: 2007
Coachwork: Thomas Built
Chassis: Minotour
Engine: Chevy Express 3500 6.6l
You should take my “grocery getter” comment lightly although listening to others on this site had me out looking at tranny swaps.

The bus with a cowl is far superior maintence-wise.

They have higher clearances and likely more space in the “basement” than a cutaway.

They have heavier suspensions so you can carry more.

They will likely have more headroom, but that varies from bus to bus.
Danjo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2019, 12:50 AM   #14
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 2,831
Year: 2007
Coachwork: Thomas Built
Chassis: Minotour
Engine: Chevy Express 3500 6.6l
I did a bunch of looking and I was convinced that a 7 window International was the bus for me. I almost bought one too. I missed the one I wanted by a day. The thing that ultimately made me choose the cutaway was the GVWR and the CARB rule.

I’m still happy with my purchase though. I got a low mileage, rust-free bus that was very well maintained and despite a couple initial issues (needing new batteries and to be opened up to clear the turbo) I am happy with the shorty. Sure wish I had that couple extra feet...
Danjo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2019, 05:24 AM   #15
Bus Geek
 
EastCoastCB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Eustis FLORIDA
Posts: 23,764
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Freighliner FS65
Engine: Cat 3126
Rated Cap: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeNesquik View Post
Would a jake break still be effective?
School buses don't typically have them.
EastCoastCB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2019, 09:05 AM   #16
Bus Crazy
 
joeblack5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: pa
Posts: 2,498
Year: 98
Coachwork: 1. Corbeil & 2. Thomas
Chassis: 1 ford 1998 e350 4x4 7.3 2 mercedes 2004
Engine: 7.3 powerstroke & MBE906
Unless you have some real desire for interior space a van based bus is much handier and less expensive in all other aspects.
The ground clearance issues seem to be very unlikely because where you would need ground clearance a " normal" bus can not go in the first place. In the event that you will get stuck with a truck based bus the average off road jeeper can not help you because you are to heavy. The power to weight ratio in a van style is much better...top speed is better..fuel mpg is better...parts are cheaper..tires are cheaper...
Depending on you taste looks might be in question.
joeblack5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2019, 09:22 AM   #17
Bus Nut
 
Willie_McCoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Rhode Island
Posts: 260
Year: 1980
Coachwork: Crown Coach
Chassis: Supercoach
Engine: Detroit 671T
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeblack5 View Post
In the event that you will get stuck with a truck based bus the average off road jeeper can not help you because you are to heavy.
Traction and gearing can work miracles.

I once pulled out a mostly loaded bulk oil delivery truck that was stuck in the mud (not buried to the frame, but covering the rubber on the rears) with my 05' Jeep TJ Rubicon. Extra low gearing in the 6-speed, t-case and axles and decent traction made her quite the mighty mouse.
__________________
Supercoach Build Thread
Instagram
Willie_McCoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2019, 01:56 PM   #18
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Eastern WA
Posts: 6,401
Year: 2002
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: All American RE (A3RE)
Engine: Cummins ISC (8.3)
Rated Cap: 72
If it has already been mentioned I missed it...

Full size CE buses are MUCH easier to work on than cutaways.

I bought a 5 window E450 Thomas and was going to make it my daily driver. Then I had to work on it.......

Now it's gone and I am looking for a full size 5 window.
PNW_Steve is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2019, 03:31 PM   #19
Bus Crazy
 
Sleddgracer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: south east BC, close to the Canadian/US border
Posts: 2,265
Year: 1975
Coachwork: Chevy
Chassis: 8 window
Engine: 454 LS7
Rated Cap: 24,500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PNW_Steve View Post
If it has already been mentioned I missed it...

Full size CE buses are MUCH easier to work on than cutaways.

I bought a 5 window E450 Thomas and was going to make it my daily driver. Then I had to work on it.......

Now it's gone and I am looking for a full size 5 window.
I have a nice 26' chevy motor home sitting in my driveway - price quoted from the only guy willing to quote was $3000 to r&r the motor, and I would supply the new motor - cutaways are a bitch to work on - the motorhome is being used as a spare bedroom now
Sleddgracer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2019, 03:32 PM   #20
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 2,831
Year: 2007
Coachwork: Thomas Built
Chassis: Minotour
Engine: Chevy Express 3500 6.6l
Quote:
Originally Posted by PNW_Steve View Post
If it has already been mentioned I missed it...

Full size CE buses are MUCH easier to work on than cutaways.

I bought a 5 window E450 Thomas and was going to make it my daily driver. Then I had to work on it.......

Now it's gone and I am looking for a full size 5 window.
Yeah, NO ONE likes to work on them. I’m hoping good maintenance keeps mine on the road for a long time. I gotta say though, that pneumatic tools make it a lot less painful when it does happen.

Danjo is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:38 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.