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Old 11-29-2019, 08:01 AM   #101
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Old 11-29-2019, 08:07 AM   #102
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Looks about like a school bus would, eh?

I've got a line on a decent deal for a fixer upper 1983 Wanderlodge. Hoping to buy it early next year when finances look better.
Interesting fact- they came with 300 gallon fuel tanks!
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Old 11-29-2019, 08:49 AM   #103
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So let's be fair here.

Technically, the layers are going to be stronger. What isn't so obvious to a casual onlooker is if that extra strength is useful. You could make a refrigerator out of half inch plate steel but that doesn't mean you get a benefit.

Here's a good video on composite construction that includes how layers can make a structure much stronger.



Note that they're using it to reinforce weak materials, which is a different situation that a school bus. The hat channel ribs and outer skin have a ton of strength.


Wanderlodges are awesome I don't even mind that they look like Shaft is gonna step out of one.
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Old 11-29-2019, 08:50 AM   #104
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Originally Posted by EastCoastCB View Post
Looks about like a school bus would, eh?

I've got a line on a decent deal for a fixer upper 1983 Wanderlodge. Hoping to buy it early next year when finances look better.
Interesting fact- they came with 300 gallon fuel tanks!
Holy smokes! My 100gal tank is more than big enough to hide my wife in -- I can't imagine a single 300gal tank -- it's gotta be multiple tanks...

As to the continued buffoonery regarding the added strength of a metal headliner -- the cross-connected ribs provide the strength of the 'cage'. The metal outer skin is to allow the cage to roll and slide smoothly reducing sudden deceleration which is sooo hard on a body... the inner skin provides a smooth surface for the occupants to bounce around in -- exposed ribs would hurt your head!

Sure, the sheet metal panels provide some additional strength in holding the ribs in their original positions but a T&G groove wood ceiling would provide way more (math term!) strength (if properly fastened to the ribs!) than a sheet of 20ga tin...

Way more relevant. You and your passengers won't (shouldn't!) be lounging around in the back of the bus while going down the road -- you should all be in your seats with your effing 3pt shoulder belts properly fastened...
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Old 11-29-2019, 09:22 AM   #105
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Holy smokes! My 100gal tank is more than big enough to hide my wife in -- I can't imagine a single 300gal tank -- it's gotta be multiple tanks...

As to the continued buffoonery regarding the added strength of a metal headliner -- the cross-connected ribs provide the strength of the 'cage'. The metal outer skin is to allow the cage to roll and slide smoothly reducing sudden deceleration which is sooo hard on a body... the inner skin provides a smooth surface for the occupants to bounce around in -- exposed ribs would hurt your head!

Sure, the sheet metal panels provide some additional strength in holding the ribs in their original positions but a T&G groove wood ceiling would provide way more (math term!) strength (if properly fastened to the ribs!) than a sheet of 20ga tin...

Way more relevant. You and your passengers won't (shouldn't!) be lounging around in the back of the bus while going down the road -- you should all be in your seats with your effing 3pt shoulder belts properly fastened...
I was a bit mistaken. Rear engine Wanderlodges only have a 150 gal tank. There were 150, 200 (actually a bit over 200), and from what they say on the wanderlodge forum there were 300+ gal tanks.



Check out this thread on tank capacity from the BBWL owners group!
https://www.wanderlodgeownersgroup.c...ad.php?t=22581
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Old 11-29-2019, 01:03 PM   #106
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What happened? Did a kid bump their head on it? Should of had a metal ceiling, excuse me, I meant metal headliner.
Heh! Well anyway that's what happens when a tree falls on a roof which does not function as a unit. I spose the tree stopped when it hit a counter top or sumthin a little denser than the roof. I never aked the guy what happened on the inside, probly waiting for the insurance adjuster b4 he busts his way in.

One more example of why you need multiple emergency exits.

I take note that the Wanderlodges CB shows have beefy lookin roof racks that would spread the impact weight out over multiple hat channels = good thing. I don' know but lets suppose they are a standard feature and well attached. Now if those hat channels or hoops are twice the strength of the ones in a school bus (apparently there are half as many) then we are starting to approach a structure equivalent to a stock school bus roof.
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Old 11-29-2019, 06:56 PM   #107
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So let's be fair here.

Technically, the layers are going to be stronger. What isn't so obvious to a casual onlooker is if that extra strength is useful. You could make a refrigerator out of half inch plate steel but that doesn't mean you get a benefit.

Here's a good video on composite construction that includes how layers can make a structure much stronger.



Note that they're using it to reinforce weak materials, which is a different situation that a school bus. The hat channel ribs and outer skin have a ton of strength.


Wanderlodges are awesome I don't even mind that they look like Shaft is gonna step out of one.

Close, but, no cigar. The closest this video comes to describing the concepts at work here is from 4:08 - 4:30 when he is talking about hollowing out the white piece to reduce weight. The walls and ceiling of the schoolbus use the concepts of using bends/shapes to strengthen flat material (the bends in the hat channel and the curve of the roof), the concept that the center of load bearing beams doesn't carry a load (that's what allows you to drill holes there for wires and plumbing or simply to lighten the beam and part of the reason that trusses and tube type roll cages work) and triangulation to prevent hinging.


This type of construction more closely resembles corrugated cardboard or box beams, both of which lose considerable strength if you eliminate one of the skins. It is not uncommon for the individual components to serve other purposes (magnet holders, guiding kids heads away from the ribs and into the windows) - yeah I watched the video too, just didn't come to the same conclusions as some. I don't think that this was an intentional result. Surely those stupid engineers could have used something softer, more energy absorbing than steel sheet...but wait, then it wouldn't be able to supply the extra strength required to keep from crushing those kids in a hard roll over (not lay on its side). Guess, sometimes you just have to make choices.



Composite construction involves combining dissimilar materials into one new monolithic structure (in this video - fiberglass, epoxy, foam, etc. Concrete could be considered a composite.) to combine the properties of each and achieve specific goals -weight, finish, strength, toughness, shape, etc.


BTW, that Wonderlodge did not roll over, it rolled onto its side, barely. From the looks of the bent sides, I would venture to say that a roll over might just make it shorter and a whole lot sadder (sides seem a little weak, who knows what will happen if it actually makes it onto the roof). As it is, the passengers survived, the RV was totaled and parted out, but at least some value remained which is important if you don't have comprehensive insurance.



I once flipped a Ford Courier end over end, flattened the roof down to where there was only about a 6 inch slot where the windshield used to be. Landed right side up, but the impact deflated 3 tires, aired the tires back up with a bottle of freon 22 (was plentiful back then, but not cheap) and drove it 30 miles back home on the back roads. Totaled, but still ran.
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Old 11-29-2019, 07:02 PM   #108
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Heh! Well anyway that's what happens when a tree falls on a roof which does not function as a unit. I spose the tree stopped when it hit a counter top or sumthin a little denser than the roof. I never aked the guy what happened on the inside, probly waiting for the insurance adjuster b4 he busts his way in.

One more example of why you need multiple emergency exits.

I take note that the Wanderlodges CB shows have beefy lookin roof racks that would spread the impact weight out over multiple hat channels = good thing. I don' know but lets suppose they are a standard feature and well attached. Now if those hat channels or hoops are twice the strength of the ones in a school bus (apparently there are half as many) then we are starting to approach a structure equivalent to a stock school bus roof.
They have the same ribs as a school bus, only half the amount. Also NO metal headliner- its a pressed board sorta akin to cardboard. Still much comfier than steel!
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Old 11-29-2019, 07:05 PM   #109
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This one deformed in virtually the same manner as the wanderlodge.
This one didn't also hit a tree on its way though.


This one hit a pole, though-

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Old 11-29-2019, 07:15 PM   #110
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Originally Posted by EastCoastCB View Post
They have the same ribs as a school bus, only half the amount. Also NO metal headliner- its a pressed board sorta akin to cardboard. Still much comfier than steel!
I'd say the metal headliner is to withstand the day-to-day abuse of snot-nosed kids...

And it's relatively cheap (labor, tooling, inventory) since that's the same material the rest of the bus is getting worked with...
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Old 11-29-2019, 07:22 PM   #111
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I'd say the metal headliner is to withstand the day-to-day abuse of snot-nosed kids...

And it's relatively cheap (labor, tooling, inventory) since that's the same material the rest of the bus is getting worked with...
That's my contention.
Does riveting a metal headliner to the bus make it stronger? Well yeah- but its already strong enough that when selling them for $300,000 to willie nelson and johnny cash they figured the cardboard was much more luxurious while still providing school bus level safety. The same engineers who designed the All American designed the Wanderlodge. I think they knew what they were doing!
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Old 11-29-2019, 08:13 PM   #112
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I'd say the metal headliner is to withstand the day-to-day abuse of snot-nosed kids...
To be more specific, it's to keep them from eating the fiberglass insulation.
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Old 11-30-2019, 11:48 AM   #113
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to be more specific, it's to keep them from eating the fiberglass insulation.





.... Lol ....
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Old 11-30-2019, 11:49 AM   #114
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I'd say the metal headliner is to withstand the day-to-day abuse of snot-nosed kids...

And it's relatively cheap (labor, tooling, inventory) since that's the same material the rest of the bus is getting worked with...



Both make sense
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Old 11-30-2019, 02:53 PM   #115
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Originally Posted by EastCoastCB View Post
They have the same ribs as a school bus, only half the amount. Also NO metal headliner- its a pressed board sorta akin to cardboard. Still much comfier than steel!
Hmm, pity, they are such nice lookin units, well I guess when you are not required to meet school bus standards you can build em to the buyers demands.

In an actual roll over school busses are not overbuilt.

In my neck of the woods there is very little flat ground so if you stray from the road surface you are likely going to tip over and take a ride down a steep bank and come to rest against trees or rocks, roof first!

Lets look at what happens when flatland busses get on their roofs.
(I have limited internet, pictures might not load)
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Old 11-30-2019, 03:05 PM   #116
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Note how awesome that back door can be, even when you are at an unusual angle.
Of course in a tip over it's the roof hatch that starts getting mighty accessible!
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Old 11-30-2019, 03:54 PM   #117
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Apparently you don't understand what a Wanderlodge is , still. THat's ok.
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Old 12-01-2019, 04:09 AM   #118
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Hmm, pity, they are such nice lookin units, well I guess when you are not required to meet school bus standards you can build em to the buyers demands.

In an actual roll over school busses are not overbuilt.

In my neck of the woods there is very little flat ground so if you stray from the road surface you are likely going to tip over and take a ride down a steep bank and come to rest against trees or rocks, roof first!

Lets look at what happens when flatland busses get on their roofs.
(I have limited internet, pictures might not load)



I could not get the bottom 3 images to enlarge.


What happened to the first bus? multiple rolls?


the second one- white one - looks like a fiberglass shuttle bus?


The 3rd and 4th ones look like the roof is doing its job.


The last one, 5th one - black and white, doesn't look like a school bus to me.
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Old 12-01-2019, 05:55 AM   #119
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I could not get the bottom 3 images to enlarge.


What happened to the first bus? multiple rolls?


the second one- white one - looks like a fiberglass shuttle bus?


The 3rd and 4th ones look like the roof is doing its job.


The last one, 5th one - black and white, doesn't look like a school bus to me.
I just grabbed some pictures off the internet, if you google "bus rollover images" you should get to the same page. Lots more rollovers to see.

I didn't do in depth research and of course reporting is often incorrect but I will give a quick summary of what I did glean.

#1 - No fatalities!
#2 - Fatalities - bus was transporting school children - litigation pending due to unsafe design.
#3 - Bus roof holding well under extreme pressure.
#4 - Bus in excellent condition as load is evenly supported by flat ground.
#5 - Minor injuries to junior hockey team - not a school bus - icy conditions - well manicured shoulders and right of way on highway so basically sliding on grass yet major damage to bus. (I know the crash area)

I wanted to demonstrate what a ROLLOVER looks like.
Quite different dynamics from a bus simply flopping on it's side.

My understanding is that school bus roofs are designed to carry 1.5 times the weight of the bus. From the pictures we can see that specification is reasonable. The school busses are well designed to stand an average rollover. I would not refer to them as "overbuilt" and I certainly would not consider the inner structural membrane attached to the hat channels as a mere headliner.

I'm pretty sure you and I are on the same page when I say that after removal of the inner half of the roof these buses would no longer be considered safe for students.
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Old 12-01-2019, 06:00 AM   #120
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I'm 100% sure the wanderlodge will hold up just as well. That was the whole point.
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