Putting the metal ceiling back up after insulating?

[o1marc]

Originally Posted by musigenesis

Somebody posted something awhile back that said buses were factory specced to have insulation worth a 20-degree difference from the outside temperature. Adequate in a running bus with industrial-strength heating and AC but nowhere near enough to make living in it comfortable.

Think it was me, but not so much the insulation, but the heat and AC systems were designed to make a 20* difference from ambient.

[Cap7]

How about you mix it up and make it a convertible or bolt some seats to the roof

[Truthseeker4449]

Working on charter buses has taught me they have a fraction of the structural integrity of a school bus, so I'm not terribly concerned about any loss of structural integrity. What would be a good material to replace the ceiling with?

Originally Posted by Cap7

How about you mix it up and make it a convertible or bolt some seats to the roof

I would think there's insurance issues involved with bolting seats to the roof if decks are frowned upon.

[kidharris]

Originally Posted by Ronnie

I do not have a thermal image but I have used an infrared thermometer and my ribs showed 10 degrees cooler then the surrounding sheet metal. This extended about an inch to each side of the rib. Measured when it was in the 20's outside, and 65 inside.

I have to say if I did anything with roof insulation I would add 2" rigid foam board to the inside, and put wood over that. So it would be from the outside in, outer metal roof, fiberglass 2", metal ceiling, foam board, wood ceiling.

I do have a high roof so there is room to do this for me.

I think that you are on the right track

[kidharris]

Originally Posted by EastCoastCB

Buses are not unibody. They're body on frame.

Have you ever driven one without the metal headliner?

If its structural its pretty minimal.

Ever seen a high end motorhome with a metal headliner? ever?

"Buses are not unibody. They're body on frame."
True, but, I believe I said "This construction seems like a unibody mounted on a frame." ????

"Have you ever driven one without the metal headliner?"
No


"If its structural its pretty minimal."
BS. Take a simple piece of card board with an out side sheet of paper glued to the corrugation sheet of paper with another sheet of paper glued on the other side of the corrugated sheet of paper. Remove the sheet of paper on one side and what happens? It loses most all of its strength in one direction. There is a structural reason for the sheet metal ceiling and it is not to hang magnets on. The reason is so that the buss will support 1.5 times its weight in a roll over to meet regulations. You will note that the walls also use this type of construction.

"Ever seen a high end motorhome with a metal headliner? ever?"
No, and they will not support 1.5 times their weight in a rollover. The pretty crap that they use has no structural strength. Thanks for proving my point.

[Drew Bru]

Originally Posted by Ronnie

I have to say if I did anything with roof insulation I would add 2" rigid foam board to the inside, and put wood over that. So it would be from the outside in, outer metal roof, fiberglass 2", metal ceiling, foam board, wood ceiling.

I do have a high roof so there is room to do this for me.

This is what we did, but used 1/2" instead of 2" insulation. I wouldn't be comfortable losing more than 1 1/2" from the existing ceiling. Still significantly cooler than it was before.

[kidharris]

Originally Posted by Warthog

I've a PhD in chemistry....I understand thermal bridging quite well, thank you.

Insulating the air space with a foam is still drastically increasing the R-value by cutting out convection and radiation heat transfer across and in the air gap between the inner and outer steel walls. All that remains is transfer by direct conduction in the thin metal strips that comprise the spacer beams.

Yes, that conduction is non-zero, but far less than the original total.

Correct, thankyou

[kidharris]

Originally Posted by EastCoastCB

Bluebird's Wanderlodge is a school bus body with half as many ribs and a cardboard ceiling and they're still WAY overbuilt for the purpose.

They also don't have to be able to meet schoolbus specs. BTW, whats wrong (besides weight) with being overbuilt.

[kidharris]

Originally Posted by EastCoastCB

If you're just filling the steel with foam its not really doing much to insulate. Better for noise insulation than thermal.

https://tinyhousedesign.com/how-to-d...rmal-bridging/

https://www.bautexsystems.com/blog/h...ermal-bridging

https://www.rhinobldg.com/beating-th...tal-buildings/

These articles are about as scientific as a McDonalds adverisement. There is a little truth in them, very little, but they do not bear out your statement.

[kidharris]

Originally Posted by banman

I've been wondering... so I might as well invite the abuse on this thread (I think the OP's original Q has been long answered...)

Why not use fiberglass bat instead of ridged foam board like the factory does?
Fiberglass is much cheaper, and lighter. The thermal bridging issue of the ribs is a separate issue -- I'm just wondering why no-one likes the fiberglass bat?

Happy Thanksgiving!

I like fiberglass bats

[EastCoastCB]

Originally Posted by kidharris

"Buses are not unibody. They're body on frame."
True, but, I believe I said "This construction seems like a unibody mounted on a frame." ????

"Have you ever driven one without the metal headliner?"
No


"If its structural its pretty minimal."
BS. Take a simple piece of card board with an out side sheet of paper glued to the corrugation sheet of paper with another sheet of paper glued on the other side of the corrugated sheet of paper. Remove the sheet of paper on one side and what happens? It loses most all of its strength in one direction. There is a structural reason for the sheet metal ceiling and it is not to hang magnets on. The reason is so that the buss will support 1.5 times its weight in a roll over to meet regulations. You will note that the walls also use this type of construction.

"Ever seen a high end motorhome with a metal headliner? ever?"
No, and they will not support 1.5 times their weight in a rollover. The pretty crap that they use has no structural strength. Thanks for proving my point.

Bluebird Wanderlodge. Look it up.

Anything bending a bus has to bend the outer skin and ribs. The metal headliner and interior panels are there to keep kids from bouncing into the ribs more or less. Watch a bus crash test with kid dummies in it.
If you all are so into metal vehicle interiors why not double down and have steel headliners and door panels put in your cars?

[EastCoastCB]

Originally Posted by kidharris

These articles are about as scientific as a McDonalds adverisement. There is a little truth in them, very little, but they do not bear out your statement.

More truth in them than anything you're saying. There are PLENTY more if you wanna use GOOGLE.

[EastCoastCB]

Originally Posted by kidharris

They also don't have to be able to meet schoolbus specs. BTW, whats wrong (besides weight) with being overbuilt.

If you're trying to keep school bus specs then build around the seats. They're WAY MORE structural than the headliner.

[kidharris]

Originally Posted by EastCoastCB

Bluebird Wanderlodge. Look it up.

Anything bending a bus has to bend the outer skin and ribs. The metal headliner and interior panels are there to keep kids from bouncing into the ribs more or less. Watch a bus crash test with kid dummies in it.
If you all are so into metal vehicle interiors why not double down and have steel headliners and door panels put in your cars?

LOL, funny guy.

[kidharris]

Originally Posted by EastCoastCB

If you're trying to keep school bus specs then build around the seats. They're WAY MORE structural than the headliner.

Funny, non of the school bus manufactures see it your way. Go tell them how stupid they are.

[kidharris]

Originally Posted by EastCoastCB

More truth in them than anything you're saying. There are PLENTY more if you wanna use GOOGLE.

Just reread my last post on your "reference articles/evidence". It still applies.

[Free Bird]

Originally Posted by EastCoastCB

Bluebird Wanderlodge. Look it up.

Anything bending a bus has to bend the outer skin and ribs. The metal headliner and interior panels are there to keep kids from bouncing into the ribs more or less. Watch a bus crash test with kid dummies in it.
If you all are so into metal vehicle interiors why not double down and have steel headliners and door panels put in your cars?

I kinda like my original bus roof.

[kidharris]

Originally Posted by Free Bird

I kinda like my original bus roof.

What happened? Did a kid bump their head on it? Should of had a metal ceiling, excuse me, I meant metal headliner.

[EastCoastCB]

Troll much??

[EastCoastCB]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Bird_Wanderlodge











Heres a tale of one rolling on its side in a ditch. They drove it away. No metal interior!
https://www.wanderlodgeownersgroup.c...t=14992&page=5