Reality Check for Buying a Bus

[jjaj823]

Originally Posted by joeblack5

I love MBE.. The 2004 should not have an egr cooler since that is likely a 2003 motor.. May be 4 to 5k max if there is no rust and it is running well. The people bad mouthing these MBE likely never had one and it becomes all hearsay from that moment on.

Good luck .

My issue with the MBE has nothing to do with quality...the ambulance company I used to work for had several MB powered ambulances that ran fine for ~400,000 miles or so before they replaced them.

What worries me is the availability of parts and the available information online (or lack thereof). I know Detroit Diesel made them until 2007ish(?) and they are the US distributor for the foreign made versions and for parts.

I guess I feel like MBE engines come with the Cat premium maintenance cost but not nearly the enthusiast community online to help the DIY-er.

I'd love it if you can prove me wrong!

[EastCoastCB]

Originally Posted by jjaj823

My issue with the MBE has nothing to do with quality...the ambulance company I used to work for had several MB powered ambulances that ran fine for ~400,000 miles or so before they replaced them.

What worries me is the availability of parts and the available information online (or lack thereof). I know Detroit Diesel made them until 2007ish(?) and they are the US distributor for the foreign made versions and for parts.

I guess I feel like MBE engines come with the Cat premium maintenance cost but not nearly the enthusiast community online to help the DIY-er.

I'd love it if you can prove me wrong!

My Cat isn't any more expensive to buy stuff for than my DT466E was. Maybe even cheaper.

[jjaj823]

Originally Posted by EastCoastCB

My Cat isn't any more expensive to buy stuff for than my DT466E was. Maybe even cheaper.

Interesting...I've been using in frame kits to compare different engines and I've been seeing about a $1K difference between Cat and the DT. I am strongly considering a bus with a C7...it checks off all my other requirements.

[EastCoastCB]

Originally Posted by jjaj823

Interesting...I've been using in frame kits to compare different engines and I've been seeing about a $1K difference between Cat and the DT. I am strongly considering a bus with a C7...it checks off all my other requirements.

There is no in-frame on medium duty cats. same with 5.9 cummins. Best folks to ask about C7's is the RV crowd. They seem to like them other than having to tear their bedroom apart for maintenance.

Parent bore engines can't be in-framed. But they do have some advantages. No liner seals to fail.

[jjaj823]

Originally Posted by EastCoastCB

There is no in-frame on medium duty cats. same with 5.9 cummins. Best folks to ask about C7's is the RV crowd. They seem to like them other than having to tear their bedroom apart for maintenance.

Parent bore engines can't be in-framed. But they do have some advantages. No liner seals to fail.

Interesting...I didn't realize it made a difference. When overhauling marine engines we almost always removed them first. Good to know there is a difference in truck applications.

Your insights are appreciated!

[joeblack5]

Can not prove you wrong, cannot prove that god exits either.
But I am driving one and it treats me well. If you are at the level that you need to replace parts like pistons, crankshaft then you are already in the wrong boat. .
The reality is that with reasonable knowledge, preventive maintenance and a relaxed foot the average skoolie will not drive enough miles or have high stresses to get close to an overhaul.. and if it breaks down so bad then it is faster cheaper to drop an engine from a junker in it. The likely hood that you can do an overhaul on the road far from home yourself and cheap is not very high.
Good look in your adventure.

[jjaj823]

Originally Posted by joeblack5

Can not prove you wrong, cannot prove that god exits either.
But I am driving one and it treats me well. If you are at the level that you need to replace parts like pistons, crankshaft then you are already in the wrong boat. .

True. I was just using that type of maintenance item for comparison purposes. It's seems surprisingly difficult to compare competing engines.

The reality is that with reasonable knowledge, preventive maintenance and a relaxed foot the average skoolie will not drive enough miles or have high stresses to get close to an overhaul...

Also true. But when you are starting with a platform that already has 200,000 or so miles (+/-) with a minimal engine history at best, these are things that I think should be considered. Even if the chance is low. Projected maintenance definitely figures into how much I will pay for a bus.

and if it breaks down so bad then it is faster cheaper to drop an engine from a junker in it. The likely hood that you can do an overhaul on the road far from home yourself and cheap is not very high.
Good look in your adventure.

Another true statement! Thanks for your assistance!

[EastCoastCB]

Yeah, if my engine ever dies I'm hiring Ronnie to put a 2 stroke Detroit in my bus lol.

[jjaj823]

Too bad school buses don't come with a series 60...

[EastCoastCB]

Originally Posted by jjaj823

Too bad school buses don't come with a series 60...

I'll bet if Crown had continued on they'd have ended up with at least a series 50 in one.

[jjaj823]

Originally Posted by EastCoastCB

I'll bet if Crown had continued on they'd have ended up with at least a series 50 in one.

*Sigh...it's nice to dream.

[JackE]

Originally Posted by jjaj823

The MBE I understand...would you mind elaborating on why no earlier than 2003/2004?

He said nothing newer that 2004. Emissions garbage is expensive. 2004 or older = cheaper and easier to fix.

Originally Posted by joeblack5

I love MBE.. The 2004 should not have an egr cooler since that is likely a 2003 motor.. May be 4 to 5k max if there is no rust and it is running well. The people bad mouthing these MBE likely never had one and it becomes all hearsay from that moment on.

Good luck .

Whats MBE?

[CHEESE_WAGON]

Originally Posted by JackE

He said nothing newer that 2004. Emissions garbage is expensive. 2004 or older = cheaper and easier to fix.


Whats MBE?

Mercedes Benz Engine I believe. The 906?

[Ronnie]

Originally Posted by CHEESE_WAGON

Mercedes Benz Engine I believe. The 906?

Think so. We helped a friend pick up a bus from auction recently, and the head mechanic likes the MBE 906, their fleet had a number of them. Had nothing good to say about the Cat's though, referred to them as tractor engines because they are much rougher running then the MBE, and more trouble. His favorite was Cummins though, and as they replace buses are buying as much as they can only Cummins. Just interesting to hear from a fleet mechanic.

[EastCoastCB]

Originally Posted by Ronnie

Think so. We helped a friend pick up a bus from auction recently, and the head mechanic likes the MBE 906, their fleet had a number of them. Had nothing good to say about the Cat's though, referred to them as tractor engines because they are much rougher running then the MBE, and more trouble. His favorite was Cummins though, and as they replace buses are buying as much as they can only Cummins. Just interesting to hear from a fleet mechanic.

I guess its all subjective. Cummins always sound the most industrial/tractorlike to me. And my Cat feels smooth and refined compared to all my previous Navistar stuff.

[Rovobay]

Are you after a full size flat nose 40 footer? are you flexible on style and length? I paid $2,094.69 on auction for my bus FWIW.

I see a 95 AmTram in Bend, OR good engine/trans combo. I bid on a bus from that school district and the guy was helpful in answering questions. It is a good school district that takes care of its fleet.

[jjaj823]

Originally Posted by JackE

Whats MBE?

MBE = Mercedes Benz Engine. The MBE 900 engines were produced here in the US by Detroit Diesel and sold for the medium truck market. Models I have seen include the MBE906 and MBE926LA, bit I think there are a few more. I don't remember the exact production dates, but some were imported and some were made here.

Hope that clarifies a bit.

[jjaj823]

Originally Posted by Rovobay

Are you after a full size flat nose 40 footer? are you flexible on style and length? I paid $2,094.69 on auction for my bus FWIW.

I see a 95 AmTram in Bend, OR good engine/trans combo. I bid on a bus from that school district and the guy was helpful in answering questions. It is a good school district that takes care of its fleet.

I would prefer a flat nose pusher, but in reality, I need at least 30 feet of usable interior. That's about my only requirement.

Bend has a couple up for auction now I am keeping an eye on. Good to know that they are pretty well taken care of. Thanks for sharing!

[CHEESE_WAGON]

Originally Posted by EastCoastCB

I guess its all subjective. Cummins always sound the most industrial/tractorlike to me. And my Cat feels smooth and refined compared to all my previous Navistar stuff.

As I've said before, one man's trash is another man's treasure...

[Rock-N-Ruth]

Originally Posted by jjaj823

Hi everyone!

I've been lurking around for awhile sucking up everyone else's knowledge but am finally getting ready to climb into the rabbit hole...er...buy a bus.

I'm looking for a reality check on pricing. I've got a line on an AZ International RE3000 84pax with 178,000 - 186,000 miles (there are multiple units...mileage varies), air conditioning, and the DT466E/MD3060 combo. Sounds great right?

Price I got was $9,000 out the door with seats removed and all the "bus bits" removed/covered over. Sounds a bit high to me, but I don't know what/how to compare it to something else.

Does that seem like a reasonable price? It seems like bus pricing is all over the place, with sellers throwing darts to get pricing. My local dealer (NW Bus) had basically the same Thomas RE with MBE engine in 2004, 2006, 2007, and 2008 all priced at $10,000. Seems to me there would be SOME difference to account for increased wear/tear.

Am I overthinking this? Is this where bus prices are at these days?

Please let me know what I'm missing or not considering!

Sounds like about what Ruth and I have in the whole build at this time. We bought our current bus at auction last July for 1800. 1998 International Amtrans pusher with about 142000 miles on it at the time. We've been living in it and driving it while we do our hill Billy build. Oursolar system has 12 327watt panels, three solar controllers, 400 AH LifePo bank, 300AH AGM bank, 2 5KW inverters and a 12v backup system. We've got our deep freeze, kitchen, dog beds, people beds, air conditioning, and 55 inch tv, lotsa 2" poly foam insulation and great hillbilly plywood siding. We are a long ways from spending ten grand.
To each his own for sure but you can get into a really nice bus for a lot less than ten grand if you are patient.