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Old 04-06-2018, 12:11 PM   #21
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Thank you for clarifying. Will you be putting plywood behind the sheets as well, or will the thicker steel negate the need for that?
There is no need to add plywood behind a body skin. I know people do it, I just don't know why None of the other skins have ply backings.

I will add the steel, screw it down following the same pattern as the rest of the body, and spray-foam behind it.

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Old 04-06-2018, 12:20 PM   #22
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I've removed all but six of my windows and am filling them with a plywood "sandwich".

This consists of 2x4 struts inside the window frames and plywood panels attached to the outside and full plywood paneling on the interior.

I plan on "skinning" the exterior with siding so the wood paneling will eventually be covered up.

I want to leave myself the option to change the design in the future so I am using lumber and screws for everything. So far there have been no leaks and we've had some fairly heavy rain recently.

The exterior panels are primed and coated with an exterior latex paint and sealed with silicone. The space between the panels are stuffed with insulation.

One thing I don't like about using sheet metal is that it reacts to temperature and will transmit heat/cold much more efficiently than wood. Even with insulation this can cause drastic temperature changes inside.

The only real issue with using lumber is that it can absorb moisture if not sealed properly.
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Old 04-06-2018, 12:26 PM   #23
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A quick note on the galvanized-or-not question: Some common coatings won't bond well to a hot-dip galvanized surface. Almost everything with a Rustoleum label is in this category. Their only product that comes to mind as specifically labeled for, rather than being labeled not for, galvanized material is Latex Aluminum Primer.) Some automotive primers are suitable; others aren't.

Other kinds of galvanization hold paint more willingly: instead of hot-dip, galvanneal or electro-galvanized. These may cost a bit more than hot-dip and are likely to be more difficult to source.

That said.. I've used mostly galvanneal on mine, with some hot-dip before I learned galvanneal is available to me, and what little I've painted hasn't been exposed to any kind of weather yet -- I'm still praying the paint will stick.
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Old 04-06-2018, 02:38 PM   #24
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Nearly all galvanized (and also aluminum) needs to be etched prior to painting or the coating quickly releases. Acid etching with a mild muriatic solution or using a "self-etching primer" (available at most auto parts stores in rattle cans) will get the paint to stay attached.
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Old 04-06-2018, 02:52 PM   #25
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I'm deleting windows on my TC2000 and honestly, it's difficult enough that I'm probably not going to delete all the ones I had planned to do. I was going to remove all but one on the passenger side and all but 4 on the driver's side, and skin over them with steel taken from the ceiling... But the way I'm doing them I'd be doing good to get one window per day, and that's just not a good spend of time for me.

My primary concern is insulation. Bus windows leak, but I can seal them. They're already nicely tinted, whatever is on the inside of it will be invisible. My theory is, if I frame them on the inside, I can make insert insulation/wall panels to block them out when that's the right thing, while still having windows when that's the right thing.
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Old 04-06-2018, 05:09 PM   #26
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Yea but at least tin foil keeps the aliens from getting inside yer head!
Or the secret police can't hear you smoke meth.
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Old 04-09-2018, 11:57 AM   #27
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Yea but at least tin foil keeps the aliens from getting inside yer head!
<tongue firmly in cheek>

Now c'mon.... Anyone with any real sense knows aliens can get right through aluminum foil. You need to lead line to keep the aliens and government from getting into your head!

</tongue firmly in cheek>
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Old 04-09-2018, 12:14 PM   #28
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<tongue firmly in cheek>

Now c'mon.... Anyone with any real sense knows aliens can get right through aluminum foil. You need to lead line to keep the aliens and government from getting into your head!

</tongue firmly in cheek>
That's why I keep hearing the voices...time to go lead shopping!

Back on topic though...what do y all do with the top edge of the sheet when skinning over the window? Just shove it up under the drip rail and use seam sealer or are you removing the drip rail to bolt in the skin on top?
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Old 04-09-2018, 02:50 PM   #29
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<tongue firmly in cheek>

Now c'mon.... Anyone with any real sense knows aliens can get right through aluminum foil. You need to lead line to keep the aliens and government from getting into your head!

</tongue firmly in cheek>
This is fake news spread by lead-eating aliens.
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Old 04-09-2018, 02:51 PM   #30
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Quote:
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That's why I keep hearing the voices...time to go lead shopping!

Back on topic though...what do y all do with the top edge of the sheet when skinning over the window? Just shove it up under the drip rail and use seam sealer or are you removing the drip rail to bolt in the skin on top?
It's a lot of rivets to remove, but yes, I would remove the drip edge and then sandwich the drip edge, new window skin and roof skin back together with screws or rivets. this way when you're done it will look factory and not like an ill attempt to cover window openings. If you use adhesive on the sheet and ribs you may not have to rivet ss many vertical ribs to cut down on the appearance of so many rivets.
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Old 04-09-2018, 04:37 PM   #31
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It's a lot of rivets to remove, but yes, I would remove the drip edge and then sandwich the drip edge, new window skin and roof skin back together with screws or rivets. this way when you're done it will look factory and not like an ill attempt to cover window openings. If you use adhesive on the sheet and ribs you may not have to rivet ss many vertical ribs to cut down on the appearance of so many rivets.
I figured that was the case, as you'd have no real guarantee of seal the other way, just didn't want to go through all the effort before asking. When I grab the metal for my roof hatches I was gonna grab 2 more peices to cover my last rows windows and start there

I know my Thomas is mostly screws, but there are mixed rivets on black rub rails, not sure about the drip edge. Maybe I'll get lucky
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Old 04-10-2018, 10:28 AM   #32
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Another question - any certain type of metal people are going with? I was assuming just grab a sheet of cold rolled steel but not entirely sure
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Old 04-10-2018, 10:46 AM   #33
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I'm using my ceiling panels. Got some super cheap air powered metal shears from harbor freight to cut them to size.
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Old 04-10-2018, 10:54 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjhwick119 View Post
Back on topic though...what do y all do with the top edge of the sheet when skinning over the window? Just shove it up under the drip rail and use seam sealer or are you removing the drip rail to bolt in the skin on top?
My windows (Bluebird TC-2000 FE) had a double row of rivets above the "eyebrows". I removed the lower row of rivets, laid a bead of seam sealer, and hammered the skin up until it was past the row I had removed. Then I drilled 1/4" holes through and installed 1/4" solid steel rivets.
I had read about "wavy" skins and "floppy" skins, so I installed a 2x4 horizontally mid-window between the frames and applied adhesive to help prevent flapping. I re-purposed the 20ga steel panels from inside the bus for my outer skins.
On the lower side, I removed the rub rail, overlapped the skin below, with seam sealer between, and temporarily screwed the rub rail back in place with the screws that held the old windows in place. After I am complete with new window installation, I will remove those temporary screws and install 1/4" solid steel rivets as above.
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Old 04-10-2018, 11:37 AM   #35
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I'm using my ceiling panels. Got some super cheap air powered metal shears from harbor freight to cut them to size.
My ceiling was perforated unfortunately so I'm having to get my metal
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Old 04-16-2018, 08:15 AM   #36
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I'm personally skinning over my windows, but instead of just tacking it to the outside I'm going to brake up some 18ga steel to the dimensions of the old windows and install them like the windows had been.

However, I have seen a bus used wood that was painted to match and it looked nice. You could probably use some composite or fiberglass-reinforced material, like T1-11. It'd cost more than leaving the windows but less than steel.

Either way, I wouldn't leave the windows because they'll most likely leak, and that could ruin your hard work down the road. They're not good for insulation either.
Man, you and I should have a few beers sometime... Aren't you local? I'm in Apopka/Sorrento!
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Old 04-16-2018, 08:16 AM   #37
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Another question - any certain type of metal people are going with? I was assuming just grab a sheet of cold rolled steel but not entirely sure
I use 18ga plain hot rolled. I buy in 4x10's.
I got three for $160 out the door on a pallet a few months ago before the tariffs kicked up the prices.
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Old 04-16-2018, 08:47 AM   #38
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Welcome back Eccb!
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Old 04-16-2018, 09:10 AM   #39
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Welcome back Eccb!


Hopefully I can get my bus done this year!
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Old 04-16-2018, 09:46 AM   #40
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Me too! I picked one up while you were away. Your help around here has definitely been missed! Glad to see ya back
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