Removing Bus Walls - Need Advice

[AMDenels]

I'm sure there are others threads about this question but I couldn't find it. So here we go...

I'm trying to remove the sheet metal from the interior walls and am running into two issue. First, as you can see on the pictures, I have a lower wall section with a lip that sticks out into the bus. This was used to hold up the seats. I imagine this part of the wall cannot be removed, is that correct? If not, any pointers on how to go about this? I was hoping to at least remove that lip if possible so my walls aren't pushed further into the bus.

Secondly, the panels above this lip seem to wrap up under the window the back up behind the windows and are riveted to the outside of the bus. I've seen people just cut these panels below the windows but I'd prefer to remove them cleanly if possible.

Any suggestions? Do I need to remove the rivets on the outside of the bus?

I plan on removing all the windows, covering many of the openings, and either putting new windows in or resealing the old ones. Thanks!

[o1marc]

Some can easily be removed after removing the windows. Many just cut the metal off an inch or so below the window. Your walls won't be pushed in any from that thin sheet metal.

[Brad_SwiftFur]

It is my understanding that the "Chair rail" is an engineered part of the bus's structure. As such, I would *NOT* remove any of it. I would *NOT* grind or cut the lip down.


With that said, it's your bus and I can't stop you from doing it. Personally, I would simply build around it, and keep in mind the extra wall thickness will allow for more insulation. Also, it will make a great place to attach things.

[AMDenels]

Originally Posted by o1marc

Some can easily be removed after removing the windows. Many just cut the metal off an inch or so below the window. Your walls won't be pushed in any from that thin sheet metal.

I was more concerned about the lip on the bottom white part of the wall. I don't think that portion can be removed.

As to removing the sheet metal portion, do you advise I cut it a bit below the window or remove the rivets and take the whole sheet out cleanly?

[AMDenels]

Originally Posted by Brad_SwiftFur

It is my understanding that the "Chair rail" is an engineered part of the bus's structure. As such, I would *NOT* remove any of it. I would *NOT* grind or cut the lip down.


With that said, it's your bus and I can't stop you from doing it. Personally, I would simply build around it, and keep in mind the extra wall thickness will allow for more insulation. Also, it will make a great place to attach things.

Thanks, that's my understanding as well. What do you recommend as far as keeping that lip from being any type of thermal bridge? Do I need to bring furring strips out past it or can I have the material I use for my walls butting up against that lip?

[livingtheguslife]

Hi there,

I am new to this group. Can anyone tell me how to create a new post in a forum? I have not been able to figure it out and this was the only place I could find to post the question.

THanks!

[Drew Bru]

Originally Posted by livingtheguslife

Hi there,

I am new to this group. Can anyone tell me how to create a new post in a forum? I have not been able to figure it out and this was the only place I could find to post the question.

THanks!

Sure. Go to FORUM, then choose a forum (New Member Intros, perhaps?) and in the upper left corner click the black box that says NEW THREAD.

[o1marc]

I think people here are too anal about thermal bridging. You're never going to completely seal a bus. Insulate the best you can and you'll have enough.

[BlackJohn]

Originally Posted by o1marc

I think people here are too anal about thermal bridging. You're never going to completely seal a bus. Insulate the best you can and you'll have enough.

Ain't that the truth! Good call marco!


John

[o1marc]

I was sort of surprised to find my lower wall metal does not wrap around the lower window ledge, it is instead flush with the top of the flange and then just spot welded every 2" or so. looks like I'll be shearing that off below the window.

[Brewerbob]

Originally Posted by o1marc

I think people here are too anal about thermal bridging. You're never going to completely seal a bus. Insulate the best you can and you'll have enough.

This.



That metal is approximately 13~14 gauge (???). Thicker that the 15 gauge that B.B. uses for exterior skin but not by much. It ain't 1/4" thick. That said, even a 1/4" thick piece of metal all the way around the bus and even sticking out of a paper thin wall isn't going to significantly change the ambient temp of 1500 cubic feet of air. That 1500 is assuming a 5 foot flat ceiling and a 40 foot bus. But you get the point I hope. The ribs and floor will do a hell of a lot more heating/cooling than that lip.



A lot of people insulate beyond the chair rail. Those that don't typically leave all the windows in and the sheet metal up. They too have bigger heat losses than a 3/4" piece of steel sticking out of the wall.

[Brewerbob]

Originally Posted by Brad_SwiftFur

Also, it will make a great place to attach things.

And this.


I could see removing them if you didn't want to walk into them but aren't you going to have base cabinets, furniture, etc. against the walls anyway?

[Ninjakitty]

I would leave the lip. In places where it actually shows, you can always frame a 2x2 above it and hide your wiring and plumbing in that 1" gap. Then just build a small wall over it with 1/4".

It will also work as a good point to bracket furniture and such to. You may have to trim cabinets around it, but not to bug a deal with a skill/jig saw

[EastCoastCB]

Originally Posted by o1marc

I was sort of surprised to find my lower wall metal does not wrap around the lower window ledge, it is instead flush with the top of the flange and then just spot welded every 2" or so. looks like I'll be shearing that off below the window.

That's what I did on my AmTran/Ward. Sheared it right off.

[AMDenels]

Great points, thank you all. I believe I will not worry about that lip and figure out whether to frame around it or not once I get to that point.

As to the sheet metal walls, it sounds like most people cut them out when they wrap under the windows like mine. What are the cons or removing the outer rivets to remove the panels cleanly since I plan on pulling all the windows anyways?

[o1marc]

Originally Posted by AMDenels

Great points, thank you all. I believe I will not worry about that lip and figure out whether to frame around it or not once I get to that point.

As to the sheet metal walls, it sounds like most people cut them out when they wrap under the windows like mine. What are the cons or removing the outer rivets to remove the panels cleanly since I plan on pulling all the windows anyways?

Con would be lots of unnecessary labor for something that would be hidden in the end. I thought about this on mine. I have a spot weld drill bit that would make easy work of the weld spot. approximately 450 spot welds drilled, or 5 minutes zip that sheet off with an electric shear. No brainer.

[Brewerbob]

Originally Posted by o1marc

Con would be lots of unnecessary labor for something that would be hidden in the end. I thought about this on mine. I have a spot weld drill bit that would make easy work of the weld spot. approximately 450 spot welds drilled, or 5 minutes zip that sheet off with an electric shear. No brainer.

Where's the fun in that? I removed at least 450 solid rivets by drilling most of them out. That doesn't include the 1000+ of blind rivets inside the bus. Blind rivets are SOOOO much easier to get rid of.

[Brewerbob]

Originally Posted by AMDenels

What are the cons or removing the outer rivets to remove the panels cleanly since I plan on pulling all the windows anyways?

Does this mean you are putting sheet metal over the windows? If so, drilling the rivets out will give you somewhere to rivet the new metal.

[AMDenels]

Originally Posted by Brewerbob

Does this mean you are putting sheet metal over the windows? If so, drilling the rivets out will give you somewhere to rivet the new metal.

Yes, I plan on putting sheet metal over it. I'm thinking of removing the rivets and tucking the sheet metal in underneath the lip over the windows and underneath the black panel or right up against it below the windows on the side of the bus. Is this a good idea to keep everything water tight?

[Brewerbob]

Originally Posted by AMDenels

Yes, I plan on putting sheet metal over it. I'm thinking of removing the rivets and tucking the sheet metal in underneath the lip over the windows and underneath the black panel or right up against it below the windows on the side of the bus. Is this a good idea to keep everything water tight?

Tuck it under the sheet metal at the top and over the sheet metal at the bottom but under the rub rail. This will layer it like shingles on a roof. This is my plan.


Is it a good idea to keep everything water tight?!? Um, unless you plan on weather proofing the dash, all the wires and connectors, and then whatever else you are putting in the bus for an interior, why would you NOT weather proof it??? A 40 foot convertible with no top? Yes, I am being a smart a$$ but no I don't understand the question either. Of course you want the sheet metal waterproof; what am I missing? Leaks would be bad.