Repairing International Instrument Cluster

[CatawamBus]

Hey guys, just stumbled upon this thread researching a bus I am thinking about buying in the next couple weeks. It's a '99 Bluebird on an International chassis with a DT466. Its gauge cluster is intermittent, one start up it works, the next it's dead. I have little experience soldering and I am very weary of taking apart the cluster. Could this be a wiring issue as stated above? I'd hate to have to pass on it just because of this issue, but I would have to drive it home 1000+ miles and need to have the gauges working completely so I don't run it out of fuel or overheat it. Would this be a simple fix for a shop?

[warewolff]

For an electrical hobbyist, yes. Shop would just replace it. You can spend $265 for the bluetooth transmitter online and use a digital gauge on your tablet, if you prefer.

[cadillackid]

Originally Posted by warewolff

For an electrical hobbyist, yes. Shop would just replace it. You can spend $265 for the bluetooth transmitter online and use a digital gauge on your tablet, if you prefer.

**THIS**


im running digital gauges and never Look at the lower ones anymore.. just the fuel gauge and air pressure.. and im going to likely install different gauges for those and that way I can reconfig my dash to allow for A/C vents and yank the navistar panel altogether.. the ECM carries the odometer and hour meter officially..






-Christopher

[cadillackid]

if you do want to keep the original panel you can send the cluster to Circuit Board Medics and they will fix it and send it back. i forget what they charge. but its not cheap.


-Christopher

[warewolff]

Christopher, you haven't seen pictures of my new dash. I'll have to post them later. 80% finished.

[Dwight1616]

Hey I’m new here and need help with a gauge issue ... I just picked up a international 4700 and all the wires where pulled outta the gauge plug was wondering if u or anyone would have a pin out or enough pics get me started

[cadillackid]

Originally Posted by warewolff

Christopher, you haven't seen pictures of my new dash. I'll have to post them later. 80% finished.

im looking forweard to seeing what you have going!!!!! you are a tech dude like me so its gonna be wicked cool!!!!

[cadillackid]

Originally Posted by Dwight1616

Hey I’m new here and need help with a gauge issue ... I just picked up a international 4700 and all the wires where pulled outta the gauge plug was wondering if u or anyone would have a pin out or enough pics get me started

what year and engine and which plug has the wires pulled out of it? there are 3 plugs

[Dwight1616]

The green one on a 1997 international 4700 466

[cadillackid]

DT-466E or mechanical? Dash cluster has oil pressure gauge that sweeps 90 degrees(same needle sweep as fuel) or the one that looks like it sweeps almost full circle?

[Dwight1616]

It’s mechanical and yea 90 degree sweep

[cadillackid]

mechanical engine and the oil gauge is a 90 degree sweep? that sounds off.. usually the 90 degree sweep gauges are the communicating cluster... they talk to the engine computer for the MPH, RPM, VOLTs, OIL, TEMP. the mechanical engines had an actual oil-line going to the oil gauge.. as did the early 'E' engines..

[Dwight1616]

Sorry i lied it almost goes full circle and mine did have a oil line to the back

[Rovobay]

I am guessing this is in my future too as the gauges are hit and miss in my International. haven't driven it at night yet and not sure if any bulbs are out. but I guess I'll find out. I would love to see a close up of a cracked joint and/or repaired one.... just hitting all the contact points or the ones associated with the gauges?

I had to replace all the stepper motors in my Silverado dash (GM had problems with these for several years), I found that using 2 spoons to pry off the needles worked great. gently rock them off from 2 sides at the same time. I also used a bit of masking tape and a marker to note where the needles needed to be placed back.

[GTSailor]

Originally Posted by cadillackid

these were the ones i was looking at..

T5 37 73 74 T5 LED Bulbs For Instrument Panel, Gauge Cluster Lights

our bulbs are a '37' size in the cluster like shown in the pics... that fits All of the bulbs in the cluster... background lamps as well as the idiot lights as well.. my only concern with LED's is will the light be spread properly...

the gauges 'sort of' have optics for the backlights but looks like a decent light spread is needed by the bulb rather than a spot like some LED's produce..

I havent bought any yet.. I wanted to repair my panel first to make sure i could resurrect the poor thing from its abuse before I bought any LED's for it..

if I can create a solution for the trans temp, air pressure, and amps im going to go Glass in that bus with a fully computerized panel...

-Christopher

I know this is SUPER old but if you replace with LED ... two questions:

1. Will it work on the turn signal bulbs (flashers)?
2. Will it work on the backlighting bulbs since they are dimmable? it is easy enough to tell which ones these are.

My goal was at least to replace the incandescent at least on the indicator lights so i don't have to worry about those going out, but I would like to replace them all. This cluster is a pain to get out.

I suppose I could try it and see if it "fast flashes" or doesnt dim?

[Albatross]

Originally Posted by GTSailor

I know this is SUPER old but if you replace with LED ... two questions:

1. Will it work on the turn signal bulbs (flashers)?
2. Will it work on the backlighting bulbs since they are dimmable? it is easy enough to tell which ones these are.

My goal was at least to replace the incandescent at least on the indicator lights so i don't have to worry about those going out, but I would like to replace them all. This cluster is a pain to get out.

I suppose I could try it and see if it "fast flashes" or doesnt dim?

I've really only ever seen or heard of a couple of cases where replacing the older incandescents with LEDs didn't work out, and in one of those cases, it was actually the replacement LED bulb that was the problem.


To change your flashers to LEDs, you will most likely also need to change out the turn signal flasher relay to one that is "LED Capable" or an "Adaptable Resistance" flasher relay. They're fairly common, and every auto parts store I've been to has one for pretty much every vehicle I've ever asked about.



I've changed out the lights behind my Ranger's dash into dimmable LED bulbs with a red color to protect my night-vision. After living with it for a very long time, I think I should have gone with the "superbrite" red LEDs that were also dimmable. I had an inspector almost fail me once because he couldn't see them while it was being inspected outside, in Texas, in the summer. They are also a little dim if you're driving at night through a very well-lit city--especially if you've got some light shining from behind and glaring off the dash panel.



And yes, there are "dimmable LED bulb" packages, where the bulb circuit/package itself will restrict the brightness based on your dimmer settings, but they're primarily all chinese-made, so YMMV.

[nikitis]

On my Gauge cluster (from 1994) I could replace SOME with LED's since the pathways were directional. Diode means one directional. If the circuitry is in such a way where the electrons are passing in both directions, only a traditional bulb will work on those. They may make more complex LED's which can take power from either direction and then feed it via a mechanism built into the LED to send it one direction for it to light up.

If we're talking the older square 1994 model style International Harvester Gauge clusters the LED's that should work are all of the warning lights, and the smaller side clusters.

LED's would not work on my Speedometer, Odometer, RPM, and Hour Meter gauges as they shared a single bi-directional trace on the circuit board. (I even swapped the LED's direction to ensure I wasn't just seeing things incorrectly.) They won't work on them.

I had a thought, and I could potentially solder a wire from one of the side gauge cluster units which electrons travel in one direction only on those, cut the traces to the circle traces on the mainboard for those larger gauges and solder the wires - and + to the circle end so it's is directional where the LED lights go for the speedometer, etc, and solder the wire directly to the LED ends, essentially bypassing. LED's are such low voltage that a single bulb area could power 3-4 LED's easily and wouldn't overload the gauge cluster. But that's a modification for a different day.