Rivet grip range conundrum

TheHubbardBus · 12-11-2019, 04:28 PM

Got my rivet tool, now ready to get rivets! Then I start looking at sizes.

For my first job, I need to patch an emergency hatch hole. As best I can tell, the outer shell is ~.060" (16g), and I want to use a 16g patch, for a total of ~ .120".

So I start looking at closed end SS rivets. So far I've looked at 3 different suppliers, and all of them have one grip range falling right on the line (0-.125"), and the next size up starting anywhere from .118 to .125. So...

Should I have any concerns going with rivets that max out at .125"? I know it's a hair above the standard dimensions of .120" total, but is that enough wiggle room?

o1marc · 12-11-2019, 04:48 PM

If you feel it is not enough , you can go the longer rivet without issue. If you need the longer ones also, just get those and not the 2 sizes.

musigenesis · 12-11-2019, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheHubbardBus

Got my rivet tool, now ready to get rivets! Then I start looking at sizes.

For my first job, I need to patch an emergency hatch hole. As best I can tell, the outer shell is ~.060" (16g), and I want to use a 16g patch, for a total of ~ .120".

So I start looking at closed end SS rivets. So far I've looked at 3 different suppliers, and all of them have one grip range falling right on the line (0-.125"), and the next size up starting anywhere from .118 to .125. So...

Should I have any concerns going with rivets that max out at .125"? I know it's a hair above the standard dimensions of .120" total, but is that enough wiggle room?

Your roof is 20ga (0.0375") most likely, so with a 16ga patch you'll be fine with the 0-0.125 range.

TheHubbardBus · 12-11-2019, 05:05 PM

musigenesis, I don't have a hatch out yet, so I wasn't able to measure the outer shell of the roof at the hatch. However, from the hole beneath the passive vent, I measured .060 (16g). Problem is, I'm not super confident in that measurement, because the lip surrounding the hole is a little distorted. But it sure looks thicker than 20g. The inner skin IS 20g for sure. But that's not what I'm joining.

Marc - why would the rivets have a grip range if the longer ones work just as well?

o1marc · 12-11-2019, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheHubbardBus

musigenesis, I don't have a hatch out yet, so I wasn't able to measure the outer shell of the roof at the hatch. However, from the hole beneath the passive vent, I measured .060 (16g). Problem is, I'm not super confident in that measurement, because the lip surrounding the hole is a little distorted. But it sure looks thicker than 20g. The inner skin IS 20g for sure. But that's not what I'm joining.

Marc - why would the rivets have a grip range if the longer ones work just as well?

Because sometimes a short one won't work. A 1/2 grip range will pull the mandrel until it has the pressure to snap off the end. A 1/2 grip will work just as well as a .125 (1/8") on a .10 grip length. The longer they are the more expensive, which is why you don't use one size for all.

EastCoastCB · 12-11-2019, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by o1marc

If you feel it is not enough , you can go the longer rivet without issue. If you need the longer ones also, just get those and not the 2 sizes.

Its always best to add up the thicknesses of what you're riveting and get the appropriate rivet. I went ahead and got a few ranges.

TheHubbardBus · 12-11-2019, 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EastCoastCB

Its always best to add up the thicknesses of what you're riveting and get the appropriate rivet. I went ahead and got a few ranges.

That's what I did tonight. Ordered 3/16s in 62 & 64 sizes, and 1/4s in 84.

Quote:

Originally Posted by o1marc

Because sometimes a short one won't work. A 1/2 grip range will pull the mandrel until it has the pressure to snap off the end. A 1/2 grip will work just as well as a .125 (1/8") on a .10 grip length. The longer they are the more expensive, which is why you don't use one size for all.

Honestly, you lost me. I'm not familiar with the terminology you're using (1/2 grip?). But I still don't understand how you can use a rivet with a grip range that exceeds the thickness of the materials you're joining. It was my understanding that they can only compress/deform so much & still hold/seal effectively.

o1marc · 12-11-2019, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheHubbardBus

Honestly, you lost me. I'm not familiar with the terminology you're using (1/2 grip?). But I still don't understand how you can use a rivet with a grip range that exceeds the thickness of the materials you're joining. It was my understanding that they can only compress/deform so much & still hold/seal effectively.

Watch this video, when it gets to the part that shows the mandrel being pulled through the shaft, imagine the shaft is longer for a longer grip range. The mandrel will continue up the shaft until the point it snaps the end off when the grip is right.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9aoXmzdSf_I

TheHubbardBus · 12-11-2019, 10:41 PM

I see what you mean now. Thanks so much, Marc! So the only reason there's a range, instead of just a maximum, is for $$?

banman · 12-11-2019, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheHubbardBus

I see what you mean now. Thanks so much, Marc! So the only reason there's a range, instead of just a maximum, is for $$?

No, there are clearance issues to consider...

And using a rivet too long -- the mandrel can break off before it's properly securing your pieces together...

o1marc · 12-12-2019, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by banman

No, there are clearance issues to consider...

And using a rivet too long -- the mandrel can break off before it's properly securing your pieces together...

It shouldn't. It's designed to pull the mandrel through the softer shaft until the tension of the compression of material overcomes the snap strength of the mandrel head.
Can you f*ck up putting rivets in?
Can you " up spraying insulation?
Can you " using starting fluids. The answer to this and many other issues here is, Yes, "Don't be a f*ck up.

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