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Old 11-03-2017, 01:03 PM   #101
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I admit I didn't understand the concern. Are you worried about a dissimilar metals issue between the stainless parts and the zinc-coated hardware? Maybe the mechanical strength of the mild/carbon steel bolts vs stainless bolts? There's something in there about the adhesive crossing the bolt holes, but I didn't follow why that is worrisome either.

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Old 11-03-2017, 03:04 PM   #102
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I would have chosen a higher grade bolt if I had the money but I completely understand the lack of it. The zinc bolts won't cause any issues with dissimilar metals.
If you are having issues with breaking the bolts then you need to lose the air impact and look up the torque specs for what you bought. If it says something like 15-17 inch pounds then it will interpret into our terms of using an 8" long box end wrench and ratchet to tighten them down.
Use the proper torque for the hardware
Use lock washers
Once fastened correctly and all covered with metal then that fastener is and will only be subjected to the shear weight on the bolt itself but is supported and backed up by the combination of the skin metal and the many rivets in it plus whatever you use inside like full height wall framing.
Follow your torque specs and you will be golden.
Good luck
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Old 11-03-2017, 09:31 PM   #103
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I admit I didn't understand the concern. Are you worried about a dissimilar metals issue between the stainless parts and the zinc-coated hardware? Maybe the mechanical strength of the mild/carbon steel bolts vs stainless bolts? There's something in there about the adhesive crossing the bolt holes, but I didn't follow why that is worrisome either.
Ya, sorry man. As I try to explain things, the more and more I go into little details, the further I get from the reason I'm bringing it up in the first place. My concern was just pretty much bolt strength. I know that these bolts arent very strong but since I'm using so many all the way through the bus I was just trying to convince myself that it would be plenty strong and was hoping to hear that from somebody here to make my mind be at ease about it. I believe we decided to just add 2 Stainless Steel bolts with washers and nut to each section of hat channel right in between the zinc ones. And then finish the final 9 that we havent done with all stainless steel hardware.

Another crappy thing is that the metal fabrication shop that made my hat channel made them all a couple millameters too shallow in the actual hat area so when they lap over the back of the original pieces of hat channel the new flange is about 2 millameters away from the old. This just makes me feel concerned about the riveting process. Does it matter if when riveting your layers of sheet metal together, does it matter if there is a gap between one of the layers. And also hopefully the Stainless Steel rivets I bought have enough "grip" range to get all the way through all of this metal and have enought room to expand the skirt or whatever when the mandrill pulls it back! Especially considering that I bought 1300 of them. 1100 of those are 3/16" and have a large grip range from .125-.25 so hopefully that is big enought!

ANYWAYS thanks for the feedback guys!
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Old 11-04-2017, 03:19 AM   #104
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Ya, sorry man. As I try to explain things, the more and more I go into little details, the further I get from the reason I'm bringing it up in the first place. My concern was just pretty much bolt strength. I know that these bolts arent very strong but since I'm using so many all the way through the bus I was just trying to convince myself that it would be plenty strong and was hoping to hear that from somebody here to make my mind be at ease about it. I believe we decided to just add 2 Stainless Steel bolts with washers and nut to each section of hat channel right in between the zinc ones. And then finish the final 9 that we havent done with all stainless steel hardware.

Another crappy thing is that the metal fabrication shop that made my hat channel made them all a couple millameters too shallow in the actual hat area so when they lap over the back of the original pieces of hat channel the new flange is about 2 millameters away from the old. This just makes me feel concerned about the riveting process. Does it matter if when riveting your layers of sheet metal together, does it matter if there is a gap between one of the layers. And also hopefully the Stainless Steel rivets I bought have enough "grip" range to get all the way through all of this metal and have enought room to expand the skirt or whatever when the mandrill pulls it back! Especially considering that I bought 1300 of them. 1100 of those are 3/16" and have a large grip range from .125-.25 so hopefully that is big enought!

ANYWAYS thanks for the feedback guys!
You're going to want that to all be flush, or yes riveting it will cause creasing or buckling. You'll need to get that flange all nice and flat. You may need filler strips.
The grip range you bought may work if all of them are going into ribs, if not then you man need shallower grip if all you're doing is riveting 18ga to 18ga.
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Old 11-04-2017, 12:39 PM   #105
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You're going to want that to all be flush, or yes riveting it will cause creasing or buckling. You'll need to get that flange all nice and flat. You may need filler strips.
The grip range you bought may work if all of them are going into ribs, if not then you man need shallower grip if all you're doing is riveting 18ga to 18ga.
That is what my concern was when I seen the gap. Since we already put the adhesive on 17/26 of those hat channel sections, I'm worried that the adhesive will now be in the way of adding "filler strips" in the flange gap. So lets just say that all of those gaps are wide open between the flanges.. if I just add a strip or "shim" of some sort in there that should handle the problem right?

As for the rivets. Ya, I also got 200 rivets that are only go up to .125 for grip range for the 18g to 18g fastening.
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Old 11-04-2017, 04:07 PM   #106
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That is what my concern was when I seen the gap. Since we already put the adhesive on 17/26 of those hat channel sections, I'm worried that the adhesive will now be in the way of adding "filler strips" in the flange gap. So lets just say that all of those gaps are wide open between the flanges.. if I just add a strip or "shim" of some sort in there that should handle the problem right?

As for the rivets. Ya, I also got 200 rivets that are only go up to .125 for grip range for the 18g to 18g fastening.
Those won't even be in the right grip range. two sheets of 18ga are roughly .09 together.
Yes, a carefully matched strip or shim should level it all out. Get rid of the adhesive and start with metal that's all flush and go from there.
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Old 11-04-2017, 09:13 PM   #107
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Those won't even be in the right grip range. two sheets of 18ga are roughly .09 together.
Yes, a carefully matched strip or shim should level it all out. Get rid of the adhesive and start with metal that's all flush and go from there.
You must have misread what I said about the grip range there. I said I bought 200 that go UP TO .12" . The actual grip range for those are .06-.125 so those should work fine for .09" of metal. I'm more worried about how much grip I will need to go through 18g sheet metal, 14g hat, gap between the flanges, then another 14g hat.

I plan on taking your original advice about the gaps between the flanges and put "filler strips" of metal in there to delete the gap. Even if I took the adhesive out of the equasion, The new hat channel will still not fit deep enough over the old hat channel to flush up the flanges so that is why I'm just adding the filler strips and moving on. I talked to another friend today that I don't see very often about it and he agreed with the filler strips being the best move. He does a lot of structural type riveting for a living so that made me feel better knowing I got that advice from more than one person. I'm just hoping all of that metal (sheet metal, hat channels, filler strips) are not going to be more than .25 inches. I will find out this week and let you know how it goes! Thanks for all of your help!
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Old 11-04-2017, 11:02 PM   #108
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Mic it all.
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Old 11-05-2017, 08:02 AM   #109
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Mic it all.
Did you mean Mig?
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Old 11-05-2017, 09:25 AM   #110
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Negative...mic...as in short for micrometer to determine precise thickness.
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Old 11-05-2017, 01:53 PM   #111
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If the new channel don't fit over the outside how about moving it to the inside to see if it will pull into the rib better than over them? Or use c-clamps to pull it down tight. It might take several clamps to start at one edge and work the middle and then the other edge but the 16-14 gauge metal will give and rivet the edges together. I like to use self tapping screws the same size as the rivets to get everything together and take the screws out one at a time for the rivets. Holds everything where you need it and saves drill bits for pre drilling for the rivets.
Just an idea.
Good luck
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Old 11-06-2017, 07:47 AM   #112
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I like to use self tapping screws the same size as the rivets to get everything together and take the screws out one at a time for the rivets. Holds everything where you need it and saves drill bits for pre drilling for the rivets.
Just an idea.
Good luck
I like that idea. Hadn't thought of that. I'll be able to get to almost all of the old holes from the inside of the bus but was planning on drilling them. Might have to give this a shot.

I still need to go buy the Thread All and some pipe to make my flanges.
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Old 09-24-2019, 06:46 PM   #113
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jesus i just want to know what gauge steel to get to fill in my roof raise.
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Old 09-24-2019, 06:47 PM   #114
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jesus i just want to know what gauge steel to get to fill in my roof raise.
18 is perfect.
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