Free 7 Day Trial RV GPS App RV Trip Planner Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Free 7 Day Trial ×


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 03-03-2021, 10:50 AM   #1
Skoolie
 
Lee Savoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Baton Rouge
Posts: 100
Year: 2001
Coachwork: International
Chassis: FE300
Engine: DT466E
Rated Cap: 53
Roof Raise Frame Cut Offset

I did a search and couldn't find this discussed, so if this is in the wrong place, moderators, please let me know.

I am gathering all my tools and material for our roof raise. We are keeping the original bus windows and I'm planning on making the frame cuts below the windows. We are planning a 15" roof raise and I'd like to make a 24" wide piece of sheet metal work so that each sheet yields two pieces. Based on my math and Sketchup model, that will only allow me to offset my frame cuts by about 3".

I know a lot of people recommend offsetting the vertical frame cuts so that you don't have a "fault line", but the more I look at it the more my brain says with 15" between the cuts, the offset just doesn't matter. What do you guys think? Is 3" offset for the cuts enough? Is it even required?

I'll be using 1 1/4" square tube in the hat channel with 3/4" 90* angle iron to form my fill in pieces and running the square tube 12 1/2" past the cut top and bottom (1 1/4" x 40" long square tube).

So what do you guys think? Should I come up with a different plan?
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Framing Model.jpg (49.4 KB, 10 views)
Lee Savoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2021, 04:05 PM   #2
Bus Crazy
 
Jolly Roger bus 223's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Swansboro,NC
Posts: 1,604
Year: 86
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Ford B700
Engine: 8.2
Rated Cap: 60 bodies
others will be along soon
i have not myself done a roof raise but i dont see any need in the offset cuts?
what you are adding in is stronger than the ribs that were there previously.
to me the weak points would be at the tops or bottoms of what you add and or burning through the ribs especially near the ends of your additional uprights.
Jolly Roger bus 223 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2021, 04:15 PM   #3
Skoolie
 
Lee Savoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Baton Rouge
Posts: 100
Year: 2001
Coachwork: International
Chassis: FE300
Engine: DT466E
Rated Cap: 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jolly Roger bus 223 View Post
to me the weak points would be at the tops or bottoms of what you add and or burning through the ribs especially near the ends of your additional uprights.

That's kind of what I'm thinking. I'm contemplating adding two 1/4" rivets top and bottom of the square tube and keeping the welding on the hat channel down closer to the angle iron on the added square tube.
Lee Savoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2021, 04:20 PM   #4
Bus Crazy
 
Jolly Roger bus 223's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Swansboro,NC
Posts: 1,604
Year: 86
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Ford B700
Engine: 8.2
Rated Cap: 60 bodies
the trick will be the right type of welder.
one to burn into the thicker steel and connect the thinner rib metal without blowing through it at the same time.
do you already know welding or have experienced welders to help?
to be sure there not hard to find in your area?
i grew up on the border of texas and louisiana all the way up and down it working for an oil field consultant. more just a ride along helper when he needed it
Jolly Roger bus 223 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2021, 05:16 PM   #5
Bus Nut
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Near Flagstaff AZ
Posts: 617
I agree...and I think I even mentioned this in another thread recently...but I've slept since then, so who knows. It's "common practice" to stagger the cuts, but where did that come from? The "fault line" theory doesn't make sense to me, with proper welds and structure as you intend to do. The biggest real concern, I think, might be a line of distorted welds or weld beads that "telegraph" through the skin and show a bump. But, properly welded, that should not be a weak spot. And with your planned tube inserts you should be stronger than factory.

Of course, if your welds don't penetrate or are porous or just suck, then...never mind.
rossvtaylor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2021, 07:37 PM   #6
Skoolie
 
Lee Savoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Baton Rouge
Posts: 100
Year: 2001
Coachwork: International
Chassis: FE300
Engine: DT466E
Rated Cap: 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jolly Roger bus 223 View Post
do you already know welding or have experienced welders to help?

I do know how to weld, I learned stick welding as a kid then worked as a boilermaker/pipe fitter for the first few years after high school. I learned to weld most everything around the refineries I worked in. It seems that I've managed to find one or two welding projects every year since then. It's amazing the things that show up at your door when your buddies know you have a welder and can use it. The one thing I haven't done is spot weld body panels, I've got to practice that a bit before welding in the transition panels. My dad can also weld, so I'm going to enlist his help too.



Quote:
Originally Posted by rossvtaylor View Post
The "fault line" theory doesn't make sense to me, with proper welds and structure as you intend to do. The biggest real concern, I think, might be a line of distorted welds or weld beads that "telegraph" through the skin and show a bump. But, properly welded, that should not be a weak spot. And with your planned tube inserts you should be stronger than factory.

Of course, if your welds don't penetrate or are porous or just suck, then...never mind.

I feel the same way. Once you cut that frame and move it apart, my mind can't see how it matters. I'm not an engineer, but....

Hopefully I've brushed up enough that my welds don't just suck.
Lee Savoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2021, 09:41 AM   #7
Skoolie
 
Lee Savoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Baton Rouge
Posts: 100
Year: 2001
Coachwork: International
Chassis: FE300
Engine: DT466E
Rated Cap: 53
Just a quick update, after looking everything over again this past weekend, we've decided to ditch the original windows and use RV windows. It won't look exactly the way we want it to, but it won't be like living in a basket either. After pulling a bunch of the original windows and trying to make them seal and stay closed we just decided it's more work and expense to finagle something together than just sheet the whole raise area and cut in RV windows. I'm still going to do the replacement uprights the same way then will cut/modify the framing once I have the new windows in hand.
Lee Savoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2021, 12:48 PM   #8
Bus Nut
 
s2mikon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: NM USA
Posts: 522
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: All American RE 40 FEET
Engine: Cummins 8.3
And if you raise it to high it is quick to lower it. https://youtu.be/USu8vT_tfdw
s2mikon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2021, 04:40 AM   #9
Skoolie
 
Lee Savoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Baton Rouge
Posts: 100
Year: 2001
Coachwork: International
Chassis: FE300
Engine: DT466E
Rated Cap: 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by s2mikon View Post
And if you raise it to high it is quick to lower it. https://youtu.be/USu8vT_tfdw




That's exactly why when my wife said she wanted a 24" roof raise I said NO! If my math is correct we should be just below 11' all said and done. Roof rack and solar will add another foot. I'll be paying close attention to headroom signs for sure.
Lee Savoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2021, 08:30 AM   #10
Bus Nut
 
s2mikon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: NM USA
Posts: 522
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: All American RE 40 FEET
Engine: Cummins 8.3
Was it the where the 55 and the 20 came together there was a low train crossing with a truck bypass?
s2mikon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2021, 02:58 PM   #11
Skoolie
 
Lee Savoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Baton Rouge
Posts: 100
Year: 2001
Coachwork: International
Chassis: FE300
Engine: DT466E
Rated Cap: 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by s2mikon View Post
Was it the where the 55 and the 20 came together there was a low train crossing with a truck bypass?
That video is from Jackson?
Lee Savoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2021, 03:03 PM   #12
Bus Nut
 
s2mikon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: NM USA
Posts: 522
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: All American RE 40 FEET
Engine: Cummins 8.3
201 Gregson St in Durham, NC
s2mikon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2021, 03:05 PM   #13
Bus Nut
 
s2mikon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: NM USA
Posts: 522
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: All American RE 40 FEET
Engine: Cummins 8.3
I seem to remember one on I-20 at the I-55 interchange or am I forgetting.
s2mikon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2021, 03:07 PM   #14
Bus Nut
 
s2mikon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: NM USA
Posts: 522
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: All American RE 40 FEET
Engine: Cummins 8.3
Tears them up doesn't it. People just don't read the signs.
s2mikon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2021, 04:42 AM   #15
Skoolie
 
Lee Savoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Baton Rouge
Posts: 100
Year: 2001
Coachwork: International
Chassis: FE300
Engine: DT466E
Rated Cap: 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by s2mikon View Post
Tears them up doesn't it. People just don't read the signs.

Right! I'm going to put a reminder in a couple of places on the dash about my exact height once we finish the bus to hopefully help me pay attention to things like that.
Lee Savoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2021, 04:47 AM   #16
Skoolie
 
Lee Savoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Baton Rouge
Posts: 100
Year: 2001
Coachwork: International
Chassis: FE300
Engine: DT466E
Rated Cap: 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by s2mikon View Post
I seem to remember one on I-20 at the I-55 interchange or am I forgetting.

Man, it's been a minute since I've been though Jackson on the interstate, I don't remember either. The last couple of times, I was on the Natchez Trace on my motorcycle.
Lee Savoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2021, 05:59 AM   #17
Mini-Skoolie
 
cntryby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: South west Ga. / mid west Tenn.
Posts: 67
Year: 2000
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: AARE
Engine: 8.3L / MD3060R
Rated Cap: 46
Box = stong

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Savoy View Post
I did a search and couldn't find this discussed, so if this is in the wrong place, moderators, please let me know.

I am gathering all my tools and material for our roof raise. We are keeping the original bus windows and I'm planning on making the frame cuts below the windows. We are planning a 15" roof raise and I'd like to make a 24" wide piece of sheet metal work so that each sheet yields two pieces. Based on my math and Sketchup model, that will only allow me to offset my frame cuts by about 3".

I know a lot of people recommend offsetting the vertical frame cuts so that you don't have a "fault line", but the more I look at it the more my brain says with 15" between the cuts, the offset just doesn't matter. What do you guys think? Is 3" offset for the cuts enough? Is it even required?

I'll be using 1 1/4" square tube in the hat channel with 3/4" 90* angle iron to form my fill in pieces and running the square tube 12 1/2" past the cut top and bottom (1 1/4" x 40" long square tube).

So what do you guys think? Should I come up with a different plan?
The offset doesn't concern me as much as the loss of the interior sheet metal. Having the interior metal close in each section between all the ribs, creating a box makes the walls much stronger.

I think I am going to try and use the thin tubing from the seat frames to put gussets between all the ribs, essentially creating a truss. (if they're long enough)

Possibly even add a six or 8 inch strip of sheet metal on the inside, directly below the window. Similar to the factory strip along the bottom.
cntryby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2021, 12:42 PM   #18
Skoolie
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Olathe, Kansas
Posts: 217
Year: 1990
Coachwork: Crown
Chassis: Supercoach
Engine: 6-71TA
Rated Cap: 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Savoy View Post
Right! I'm going to put a reminder in a couple of places on the dash about my exact height once we finish the bus to hopefully help me pay attention to things like that.

There is a RR bridge just like the one in the video just down the street from us that is around 11'6. We have witnessed Trucks get stuck under that Bridge. We did a 16" raise on our Crown and avoid going down that street. We plan to use an app like TruckBook, TruckMap, Waze etc. to avoid low Bridges.
GWRider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2021, 12:57 PM   #19
Bus Geek
 
musigenesis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 5,009
Year: 2003
Coachwork: International
Chassis: CE 300
Engine: DT466e
Rated Cap: 65C-43A
Quote:
Originally Posted by GWRider View Post
There is a RR bridge just like the one in the video just down the street from us that is around 11'6. We have witnessed Trucks get stuck under that Bridge. We did a 16" raise on our Crown and avoid going down that street. We plan to use an app like TruckBook, TruckMap, Waze etc. to avoid low Bridges.
Just yesterday I was about to take a right turn down a road I never go on for some variety in my drive back to my parking spot, but noticed a sign that said "no trucks above 10' 8". I'm at 10' 3" but I didn't feel like having that particular cheek-clenching experience right then (especially because I've only eyeballed the height of my new Maxxair vent fan). A lot of the roads around where I live date to the late 1600s and early 1700s and apparently they didn't have Youtube back then to shame the stonemasons into making their bridge arches bigger.
__________________
Rusty 87 build thread
musigenesis is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2021, 01:57 PM   #20
Skoolie
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Olathe, Kansas
Posts: 217
Year: 1990
Coachwork: Crown
Chassis: Supercoach
Engine: 6-71TA
Rated Cap: 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by musigenesis View Post
Just yesterday I was about to take a right turn down a road I never go on for some variety in my drive back to my parking spot, but noticed a sign that said "no trucks above 10' 8". I'm at 10' 3" but I didn't feel like having that particular cheek-clenching experience right then (especially because I've only eyeballed the height of my new Maxxair vent fan). A lot of the roads around where I live date to the late 1600s and early 1700s and apparently they didn't have Youtube back then to shame the stonemasons into making their bridge arches bigger.

It appears there needs to be more of these
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Low Bridge Sign.jpg (19.1 KB, 2 views)
GWRider is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:21 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
×