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Old 03-05-2018, 04:44 PM   #21
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I'm not convinced there is a great deal to be gained by raising it above the driver area, and it is much simpler to raise the roof just behind.

The transition is the only complicated bit, and those other threads will help you there.
I agree. Nothing practical. I just like the appearance A LOT better.

Well, thinking more about it, it would make finishing the interior ceiling a little bit easier. Mostly it is about appearance.

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Old 03-05-2018, 04:49 PM   #22
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I agree. Nothing practical. I just like the appearance A LOT better.

Well, thinking more about it, it would make finishing the interior ceiling a little bit easier. Mostly it is about appearance.
Ahhh ... then go for it ... a 10 to 12" raise would not make for too high a "forehead" either.
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Old 03-05-2018, 04:52 PM   #23
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Ahhh ... then go for it ... a 10 to 12" raise would not make for too high a "forehead" either.
As I mentioned, I am concerned with taking the project on with a plan that exceeds my fabrication skills. The "humpback" looks much simpler to accomplish and I may resign myself to that just to try and avoid being a guest on the "DIY Gone Wrong" show....
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Old 03-05-2018, 05:04 PM   #24
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As I mentioned, I am concerned with taking the project on with a plan that exceeds my fabrication skills. The "humpback" looks much simpler to accomplish and I may resign myself to that just to try and avoid being a guest on the "DIY Gone Wrong" show....
If there is room to cut around the front, in straight metal leaving some original steel above the windshield, you should be good.

The trouble starts when you have to fabricate compound curves.
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Old 03-05-2018, 05:07 PM   #25
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The trouble starts when you have to fabricate compound curves.
Amen!

If I could (reasonably) build it out of wood I would be ok. My metal manipulation skills are a bit thin.
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Old 03-05-2018, 05:27 PM   #26
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I personally think raising the whole thing would be the way to go. I also like the look better. I will look up the utube videos I have seen on it and post them this evening.
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Old 03-05-2018, 05:36 PM   #27
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I like the idea of a full roof raise. Looks as though on that bus the complete "lid" is riveted all the way around, so raising it 10-12" would be easy with straight panels with just a bit of cuts around the front. 20"+ roof raises look strange, a full raise 10" would probably not look out of place.
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Old 03-05-2018, 06:05 PM   #28
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Two things.
You can cut the side ribs where they are straight and cut the four corner ribs higher at least 3-6 inches above the windshield and the ones in the back where they work for you.
The only difference between a regular roof raise from the whole enchilada raise I see is that where you cut the front and rear caps?
You would have to cut that skin at an angle to match the window cuts where the skin is removed and do some metal patchwork on the four corners when the raise is done.
A roof raise means you gotta jump into metal work anyway with the skin replacement to fit bigger windows and the same jig saw,grinder,whatever for that can be used for the corners. Bar clamps,c clamps, will help a lot.
Most busses only use 15-16-guage skin so clamps will do the job.
For the ribs there are many options but they an either bolted,riveted,screwed,or welded.
Several options.
I know you are going to remove the side windows but please protect any glass you want to keep cause grinding/welding sparks or anything like that lose to a piece of glass will stick into the glass.
Don't give up?
Just cause your not ready to weld doesn't meen you can't do a raise?
How many welds have you seen in your bus?
There is zero on mine.
Everything is bolted,riveted,or screwed?
Why do you need to weld?
I have welded. Almost daily for over 20-years and so for my bus has not even been touched by my machines. Everything is bolted,riveted,or screwed and most screws used were the same ones I took out of the interior panels.
Good luck with your decisions. It is very doable without ever touching a welding machine.
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Old 03-05-2018, 06:24 PM   #29
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Two things.
You can cut the side ribs where they are straight and cut the four corner ribs higher at least 3-6 inches above the windshield and the ones in the back where they work for you.
The only difference between a regular roof raise from the whole enchilada raise I see is that where you cut the front and rear caps?
You would have to cut that skin at an angle to match the window cuts where the skin is removed and do some metal patchwork on the four corners when the raise is done.
A roof raise means you gotta jump into metal work anyway with the skin replacement to fit bigger windows and the same jig saw,grinder,whatever for that can be used for the corners. Bar clamps,c clamps, will help a lot.
Most busses only use 15-16-guage skin so clamps will do the job.
For the ribs there are many options but they an either bolted,riveted,screwed,or welded.
Several options.
I know you are going to remove the side windows but please protect any glass you want to keep cause grinding/welding sparks or anything like that lose to a piece of glass will stick into the glass.
Don't give up?
Just cause your not ready to weld doesn't meen you can't do a raise?
How many welds have you seen in your bus?
There is zero on mine.
Everything is bolted,riveted,or screwed?
Why do you need to weld?
I have welded. Almost daily for over 20-years and so for my bus has not even been touched by my machines. Everything is bolted,riveted,or screwed and most screws used were the same ones I took out of the interior panels.
Good luck with your decisions. It is very doable without ever touching a welding machine.
I don't have any issue with welding for the structural part. No problem there.

The fab & sheet metal around the front cap is what I am concerned with. Where to cut the cap, how to reinforce and sheetmetal work.

I have spent hours staring at it with no "Ah Ha!" moments.

The "humpback" method looks much simpler. The sheetmetal work still intimidates me a bit.
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Old 03-05-2018, 06:35 PM   #30
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I think the A3RE roof raise is a simple task, because you can unrivet the whole roof and raise it with end caps intact, just add the 10-12" all the way around. I know this is an FE, but the roofs are the same.
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Old 03-05-2018, 06:41 PM   #31
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I think the A3RE roof raise is a simple task, because you can unrivet the whole roof and raise it with end caps intact, just add the 10-12" all the way around.
That is a picture of Millicent. Take a look at Elliott's build. He did not remove the rivets. He cut a bit above them.

Also, there is not much "straight" metal to work with on the forward bow unless you pull the windshield and service door.

The ribs further aft give you plenty of room to work with.

Anyone seen a "full raise" on a Bluebird other than Elliot's?
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Old 03-05-2018, 06:54 PM   #32
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The metal work on an entire roof raise is a lot simpler than figuring out the transitions metal for a humpback or a hump front and a lot less leak prone.
Me personally I would raise the whole thing and fill in the flats.
And it is cheaper and quicker to deal with filling in the flats than it is to deal with the transitions to the new turtle top cutting and filling. That won't show until your interior ceiling is water damaged unless you replace the silicone or whatever every year?
My wife complains that I over build and I cuss myself if I ever have to take apart anything I build? But at least I know where the fasteners and what they are if I have to take my own mess apart.t
Less silicone and more bondo or welding and grinding but in my mind overall less time ,money,and effort.
To raise the entire roof.
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Old 03-05-2018, 07:03 PM   #33
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The metal work on an entire roof raise is a lot simpler than figuring out the transitions metal for a humpback or a hump front and a lot less leak prone.
Me personally I would raise the whole thing and fill in the flats.
And it is cheaper and quicker to deal with filling in the flats than it is to deal with the transitions to the new turtle top cutting and filling. That won't show until your interior ceiling is water damaged unless you replace the silicone or whatever every year?
My wife complains that I over build and I cuss myself if I ever have to take apart anything I build? But at least I know where the fasteners and what they are if I have to take my own mess apart.t
Less silicone and more bondo or welding and grinding but in my mind overall less time ,money,and effort.
To raise the entire roof.
This illustrates why I call myself a WOOD worker. I am just not smart enough to be a metal manipulator.

I understand the words that you are saying. I just fall apart when I try to visualize the process.

I wish Elliott had been a little more snap happy with his camera when he did his front cap.

I do thank you all for your assistance. I am just a little slow
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Old 03-05-2018, 07:20 PM   #34
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Hey Steve, check out some of these videos from dzlfreek.

https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=...0lMTILWvcmU-Ae
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Old 03-05-2018, 07:29 PM   #35
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Hey Steve, check out some of these videos from dzlfreek.

https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=...0lMTILWvcmU-Ae
Thanks Kent,

I have seen those. Though maybe I will go back and watch again. Maybe I will get inspired

I had some brief conversation with him about taking my bus to Pahrump and having him work with me on the raise. He is just a little too far away.

Since you (I hope!!) will be here for the raise, how do you feel about the challenges of the front cap portion of the project?? I suspect that you are more accomplished in the metal working department than I am.
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Old 03-05-2018, 07:51 PM   #36
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Since you (I hope!!) will be here for the raise, how do you feel about the challenges of the front cap portion of the project?? I suspect that you are more accomplished in the metal working department than I am.
I think the transition on the humpback method would prove to be much more challenging than raising the whole thing. It seems pretty straightforward to fill in the end cap both back and front. With a 12” raise it should look good too.

I definitely want to be there for the raise!
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Old 03-05-2018, 07:57 PM   #37
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I think we need to do an engineering review.

I have a couple of six packs of Big Ballard IPA on hand for the project.
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Old 03-05-2018, 08:17 PM   #38
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I think we need to do an engineering review.

I have a couple of six packs of Big Ballard IPA on hand for the project.
I don’t know what kind of timeline you are shooting for but I could come over Friday or anytime on the weekend. I’ve got some “Space Dust” I could bring too.
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Old 03-05-2018, 08:23 PM   #39
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Not quite ready to start cutting but if you could come out on Friday and look things over that would be great!
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Old 03-05-2018, 09:53 PM   #40
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Not quite ready to start cutting but if you could come out on Friday and look things over that would be great!
Sent you a PM. Back in my car racing days our team was called “Metal in Motion”. Part of that was the fact we were racing stock cars, but the bigger part was all the metal fab required.
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