Sheet metal for after roof raise

[Mudhutwarrior]

Any metal less noble mixed with one more noble will begin galvanic corrosion.

Aluminum mixed with steel is a perfect example. Don't do it unless you want issues down the road.

It's science.


Flat earthers make a career out of telling you otherwise.

[PNW_Steve]

I just noticed that my post above is quoting the wrong post.... Hate it when that happens

[kidharris]

Originally Posted by Gdog 5651

I used prepainted aluminum trailer repair panels I used panel bonding adhesive and minimal rivets I have been working on cars trucks buses and semi trailers for over 40 years and although I have seen many strange things on many units I have never seen 1 not 1 example of "galvanic corrosion" on any thing I have ever worked on and that included many steel ribbed aluminum covered and repair patched trailers I have never seen aluminum rivets "rust"in steel supports and structure.I am not saying it can't happen but in over 40 years I've not seen it. The prepainted panels are the industry norm 4x9 panels and enough to do 14" roof raise with window delete on a 74 pass TC2000 was about $480 no prepainting no priming, steel if not prepped almost perfectly will not bond well with primer and galvanized steel is a nightmare to finish.


Gene

Is what you describe considered "best practice" in your trade? The pre painted coating and/or bonding adhesive could be preventing the contact necessary for galvanic corrosion.



I have seen a lot of galvanic corrosion in construction. It happens all the time. If you have ever seen the aluminum posts on carports rot away at the bases with a white powder (Aluminum oxide, aluminums version of rust) where the posts are fastened to the concrete with steel bolts and the joint gets wetted with water often (sprinkler system or rain) the aluminum will corrode away. The cure it to put a nonconductive coating or material between them and use stainless fasteners. Have you ever seen steel screws get loose in aluminum sheet? Thats because every wet cycle the aluminum corrodes just a tiny amount till the screw is loose in the hole?



Another problem which can show up as a cosmetic problem and/or structural problem is the different thermal coefficients of linear expansion (and contraction) between steel and aluminum. Aluminum expands almost twice as much as steel. In other words, if you securely fasten an aluminum sheet to a steel sheet with no room for expansion, the aluminum is going to grow longer than the steel in a large temperature change, say the difference between 0 degrees and 100 degrees F. On longer pieces this can cause seals to fail, buckling, oil canning, and even crushing of weaker parts. The answer to this problem is expansion joints.

What happens when a 10 ft piece of aluminum grows 1/8 in and the steel only grows 1/16 in? If they are securely fastened together, something has to give.


BTW, where do you get those prepainted aluminum trailer repair panels?

[Grinn and Bare it]

Originally Posted by EastCoastCB

I even scored 3 more of cold rolled for 65 each.

I can order you some, just let me know and i'll get you a price. It fluctuates but should be right around the prices mentioned.
I get it at wholesale cost.

Hey EastCoast,


How's it going? I'm actively looking for a bus now. Woohoo!! I'll post another thread on that but I have a question for you. Would it still be possible to order the 18ga. Steel? I looked around here and the cheapest I found was $86 for a 4x4 sheet. Please let me know. Thanks!!

[EastCoastCB]

Its been a long time since I ordered any. I got the first three free and the second thee I got later for $65. I'll get you a price. Just be patient, it takes a couple days cause I go through my stepdad.

[Grinn and Bare it]

Originally Posted by EastCoastCB

Its been a long time since I ordered any. I got the first three free and the second thee I got later for $65. I'll get you a price. Just be patient, it takes a couple days cause I go through my stepdad.

No problem,

I've got time. I'm just now searching for the perfect bus. Every day I learn more about the process.



Thanks!

[musigenesis]

Originally Posted by Grinn and Bare it

No problem,

I've got time. I'm just now searching for the perfect bus. Every day I learn more about the process.



Thanks!

Where are you located? If you click on "User CP" and fill out your profile details, users here will know where you are and what kind of bus you have, which is useful for offering advice.

If you're near Philly I know where you can get 16ga sheets (of slightly irregular shape but still about 4'x6') for $0.50 a pound (which is the equivalent of about $32 for a 4'x8' sheet, unless I'm mathing wrong).

[Grinn and Bare it]

Originally Posted by musigenesis

Where are you located? If you click on "User CP" and fill out your profile details, users here will know where you are and what kind of bus you have, which is useful for offering advice.

If you're near Philly I know where you can get 16ga sheets (of slightly irregular shape but still about 4'x6') for $0.50 a pound (which is the equivalent of about $32 for a 4'x8' sheet, unless I'm mathing wrong).

Thank you Sir,
I saw that earlier. Had no idea what it was. Being new, I'm careful not to touch too many buttons. It's that proper upbringing. LOL I'm in Florida. But my brother is in Jersey and he drive down once in a while. It's not out of the question. Could you share the info for that place please? I'm going to fill out that info now. 😉



Thanks

[musigenesis]

Originally Posted by Grinn and Bare it

Thank you Sir,
I saw that earlier. Had no idea what it was. Being new, I'm careful not to touch too many buttons. It's that proper upbringing. LOL I'm in Florida. But my brother is in Jersey and he drive down once in a while. It's not out of the question. Could you share the info for that place please? I'm going to fill out that info now. 😉



Thanks

Joseph Fazzio's in Glassboro, NJ is the place: https://www.shopjfi.com/

They have a huge stock of "regular" steel at normal prices, but the main thing to check out is their surplus section, and you need to bring a sheet metal gauge since nothing there is really labelled (there's a big stack there of the 16ga sheets that I mentioned, also lots of sheet in odd sizes and other gauges. You can also get angle steel, channel, i-beams etc. in the same surplus section, also for $0.50 a pound.

I'm rebuilding a large section of my floor (8'x8') and if I had to buy the steel for this at regular prices I would have gone broke already. It's so nice to come home with a giant stack of metal that you paid $60 for. I make a point of buying extra stuff that I don't think I have a clear need for, and so far I've used all of it.

[Grinn and Bare it]

Originally Posted by musigenesis

Joseph Fazzio's in Glassboro, NJ is the place: https://www.shopjfi.com/
I'm rebuilding a large section of my floor (8'x8') and if I had to buy the steel for this at regular prices I would have gone broke already.

WOW man, I saw that "wee bit of rust"!!! Tell me something, Could you see how bad it was before you bought the bus? Like from the undercarriage? Just asking in case it's not always visible to learn what to look for. I noticed that I could see ground from a few view ports. I hope that drive train was in pristine condition. LOL

[musigenesis]

Originally Posted by Grinn and Bare it

WOW man, I saw that "wee bit of rust"!!! Tell me something, Could you see how bad it was before you bought the bus? Like from the undercarriage? Just asking in case it's not always visible to learn what to look for. I noticed that I could see ground from a few view ports. I hope that drive train was in pristine condition. LOL

I could have seen the rust situation if I had seen the bus in person before I bought it (I bought it on eBay). The area around the wheel wells in particular was obviously in really bad shape, including mud flaps attached to what was basically just paint instead of steel, although I couldn't see through to the ground when the plywood floor was still in place (the floor removal was when I really realized how bad the situation was). The seller carefully omitted any photos of the underside, but I didn't realize the significance of that at the time.

The engine is a DT466e with 30,000 miles on it after an in-frame rebuild, and the tran is a 2000-series, so the drive train is good (but to be honest I bought the bus so early in the process that I'm not 100% sure I even knew that the engine and tran were desirable). The gear ratio is 6.17 which isn't great, but the bus does 70mph and I don't have the courage to go that fast anyway. The bus is also a high ceiling 6'7" down the center and has matching taller windows (29" high instead of the usual 23"), which is huge for me since I don't want to live in an enclosed coffin.

As far as the wheel wells go, I've been able to rebuild the floor in such a way that I gain 3" of headroom in that area, which saves me from having to do a roof raise, so it's not a total loss situation. And I also started this project in order to learn how to do metal fabrication (welding, riveting etc.) and a rusty bus is a great opportunity for that. I would still (and do) tell anybody not to buy a rusty bus because of the extra work it entails, but it hasn't been that bad for me.

[Grinn and Bare it]

Thanks!! I recently bought a welder knowing that I would have to be welding soon. That's another learning process!! First it was Solar Panels, batteries, watts, amps, etc!! Then engines, transmissions, year built, mileage. I don't quite get gears and all that yet. Then welding, gas, flux, volts, metal thickness, angle of the gun, arc distance, I'm sure there's so much more!! But, I do feel more confident each passing day. Thank the Universe for this Forum!! And all the people giving of their time and wisdom!! It really makes a world of difference!!

[kidharris]

Originally Posted by Grinn and Bare it

I don't quite get gears and all that yet.

Gears allow the transfer of power from 1 shaft to another and a way to change the speeds/rpm, direction of rotation, and take advantage of force multiplication like with levers (trading distance moved for weight moved, so to speak). If you understand levers then you should pick up on gear ratios pretty easily.


Basics

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odpsm3ybPsA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_i3PJIYtuY

Differentials

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4JhruinbWc

Mesmerizing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkQ2pXkYjRM

[wrenchtech]

I just started looking for sheet-metal too. My first and only call so far was to my favorite supplier, Pal Steel, in Palmyra Wisconsin. I asked them to quote a price on 4 x 8 sheets of 16 gauge steel. They came back with $54 a sheet. I am planning on taking out some windows towards the back of my bus and will need something to either fill them in with or cover the openings with.

in the image below, I have drawn a red line around the windows I want to delete. I would only take two out on the other side, same positions, but minus the forward-most of the three.

[o1marc]

16g is excessive, 18 or 20 will do and should be cheaper. $54 seems real cheap.

[Grinn and Bare it]

Originally Posted by wrenchtech

I just started looking for sheet-metal too. My first and only call so far was to my favorite supplier, Pal Steel, in Palmyra Wisconsin. I asked them to quote a price on 4 x 8 sheets of 16 gauge steel. They came back with $54 a sheet. I am planning on taking out some windows towards the back of my bus and will need something to either fill them in with or cover the openings with.

That's a great price! But I'm in Florida. LOL Shipping or picking up would not make it worth while sadly.

[Grinn and Bare it]

Originally Posted by kidharris

Gears allow the transfer of power from 1 shaft to another and a way to change the speeds/rpm, direction of rotation, and take advantage of force multiplication like with levers (trading distance moved for weight moved, so to speak). If you understand levers then you should pick up on gear ratios pretty easily.

Thanks for the illustrations. But I had to laugh. I know what gears are and what they do, albeit basically. What I meant was that I didn't even know that it was possible to change the gear ratio of a transmission nor would I know how to do it. I might be able to replace parts on a tranny with a YouTube video but I wouldn't venture to change the ratio of gears. I would assume there would be other calibrations to make if the gear ratio was alerted. But leave that to another thread. LOL

[wrenchtech]

Originally Posted by o1marc

16g is excessive, 18 or 20 will do and should be cheaper. $54 seems real cheap.

Yes, I am realizing that I could use a lighter gauge.

Pal Steel is a great supplier. They are in a small funky rural town and they have huge old wooden buildings that are from at least the 1920's, that are packed to the rafters with steel. They also have a big selection of salvaged materials and they have reasonable prices.

I also have https://www.speedymetals.com a short distance away from my location. They have a huge stock, and they cut to order. A while ago I ordered one inch of 3-1/2 inch x 3/4 wall steel tubing and they happily took my money and sawed of a piece. I used it to make this axle pulling fixture for my Toyota 4x4s.

[EastCoastCB]

I'd go 18ga. I've tried 16 and 20, and to me 18 is just right.

[kidharris]

Originally Posted by Grinn and Bare it

Thanks for the illustrations. But I had to laugh. I know what gears are and what they do, albeit basically. What I meant was that I didn't even know that it was possible to change the gear ratio of a transmission nor would I know how to do it. I might be able to replace parts on a tranny with a YouTube video but I wouldn't venture to change the ratio of gears. I would assume there would be other calibrations to make if the gear ratio was alerted. But leave that to another thread. LOL

Sorry, my mind reading skills never were very good. I was just replying to what you said "I don't quite get gears and all that yet."



I think it would take a transmission specialist/expert to change the gear ratio in a transmission, if it is possible. Perhaps you mean the rear end aka differential gear ratio?