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05-10-2018, 05:08 PM
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#1
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Mini-Skoolie
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Birmingham, AL
Posts: 41
Year: 2009
Coachwork: Thomas Built
Chassis: Saf-T-Liner EF
Engine: Cummins 6.7L ISB220
Rated Cap: Not sure. 29' length
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Should I Buy....2005 Thomas HDX
I would appreciate any advice any of you can offer.
I co-owned a bus years ago and have rented RVs / Airstreams in recent years. Young family of 5 and it is time to convert a skoolie!
I don’t know much about engines and transmissions. I can handle some carpentry, electrical, and plumbing. I am no mechanic. I am not doing work myself. Don’t have skills or time. I will research options, systems, etc and find someone to help do the conversion.
I am now bus shopping.
I was sold on a RE HDX based on usable interior space, noise, heat, and undercarriage storage. But, I’ve recently read criticism related to bad mirror design (I can replace mirrors) and a recall on wiring system.
Looking for total length around 38ft.
I want to buy the best bus I can find so I have a solid vehicular foundation.
Currently looking at:
2005
Thomas HDX
38’
Cat C7 engine
______? auto transmission
51k miles
Air brakes
Is this a good bus?
What questions should I ask?
What are known issues or standard upgrades to this model?
Any advice appreciated.
Thanks,
Bart
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05-10-2018, 06:48 PM
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#2
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Dawsonville, Ga.
Posts: 10,482
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Genesis
Chassis: International
Engine: DT466/3060
Rated Cap: 77
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Depends on what the asking price is. Most of us shy away from anything 2005 or newer due to potential costly and hard to diagnose electrical issues.
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05-10-2018, 07:16 PM
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#3
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Billings, MT
Posts: 1,269
Year: 2003
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: HDX
Engine: Cat C7
Rated Cap: 84 passenger
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I've an 03 Saf-T-Liner. No problems with mine (so far)
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05-10-2018, 07:40 PM
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#4
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Owasso, OK
Posts: 2,627
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Saf-T-Liner MVP ER
Engine: Cummins 6CTA8.3 Mechanical MD3060
Rated Cap: 46 Coach Seats, 40 foot
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Honest opinion?
Awesome bus, horrible engine.
I would pass on the C7.
Now if you find one with the Cummins ISC ...
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05-10-2018, 08:04 PM
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#5
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Billings, MT
Posts: 1,269
Year: 2003
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: HDX
Engine: Cat C7
Rated Cap: 84 passenger
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I agree on the motor.
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05-10-2018, 09:20 PM
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#6
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Mini-Skoolie
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Birmingham, AL
Posts: 41
Year: 2009
Coachwork: Thomas Built
Chassis: Saf-T-Liner EF
Engine: Cummins 6.7L ISB220
Rated Cap: Not sure. 29' length
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptSquid
I agree on the motor.
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What is wrong with Cat C7?
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05-10-2018, 09:22 PM
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#7
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Owasso, OK
Posts: 2,627
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Saf-T-Liner MVP ER
Engine: Cummins 6CTA8.3 Mechanical MD3060
Rated Cap: 46 Coach Seats, 40 foot
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BartStephens
What is wrong with Cat C7?
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It's loaded with emissions equipment that they never got to work properly.
It was so bad they redesigned the system and called it the ACERT.
That one was a disaster, and CAT pulled out of the School Bus market.
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05-10-2018, 09:33 PM
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#8
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Eustis FLORIDA
Posts: 23,830
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Freighliner FS65
Engine: Cat 3126
Rated Cap: 15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twigg
It's loaded with emissions equipment that they never got to work properly.
It was so bad they redesigned the system and called it the ACERT.
That one was a disaster, and CAT pulled out of the School Bus market.
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Yep, that's what went down.
I'd avoid ANY newer diesels with the emissions junk. But especially a Cat.
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05-10-2018, 09:35 PM
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#9
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Mini-Skoolie
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 24
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So, an old bus is better?
Before 2005?
Hmmmm... Got it.
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05-10-2018, 09:38 PM
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#10
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Owasso, OK
Posts: 2,627
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Saf-T-Liner MVP ER
Engine: Cummins 6CTA8.3 Mechanical MD3060
Rated Cap: 46 Coach Seats, 40 foot
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Life And Stuff
So, an old bus is better?
Before 2005?
Hmmmm... Got it.
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Yes and "old" is a relative term.
Rust is the killer. Few school buses get to the kind of mileage that means everything is wearing out.
So if you get a clean bus with moderate mileage, its age is secondary.
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05-10-2018, 09:39 PM
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#11
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Eustis FLORIDA
Posts: 23,830
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Freighliner FS65
Engine: Cat 3126
Rated Cap: 15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Life And Stuff
So, an old bus is better?
Before 2005?
Hmmmm... Got it.
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2004 was the year they started transitioning to the really problematic stuff. My 2004 IC has an 03 DT466E so it doesn't have the EGR valve stuff. But an 04 engine would have it.
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05-10-2018, 09:44 PM
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#12
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Owasso, OK
Posts: 2,627
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Saf-T-Liner MVP ER
Engine: Cummins 6CTA8.3 Mechanical MD3060
Rated Cap: 46 Coach Seats, 40 foot
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EastCoastCB
2004 was the year they started transitioning to the really problematic stuff. My 2004 IC has an 03 DT466E so it doesn't have the EGR valve stuff. But an 04 engine would have it.
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And EGR is the easy bit. Fairly reliable, and moderately priced to fix if it does go wrong.
I wouldn't let EGR stop me buying (although for those looking, the T444 was never fitted with it), but a DPF .... blech.
That said, some DPFs were retro-fitted to buses, especially California buses. These have the benefit of being able to be removed, and the resale value is high.
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05-11-2018, 04:17 AM
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#13
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Mini-Skoolie
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Birmingham, AL
Posts: 41
Year: 2009
Coachwork: Thomas Built
Chassis: Saf-T-Liner EF
Engine: Cummins 6.7L ISB220
Rated Cap: Not sure. 29' length
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twigg
And EGR is the easy bit. Fairly reliable, and moderately priced to fix if it does go wrong.
I wouldn't let EGR stop me buying (although for those looking, the T444 was never fitted with it), but a DPF .... blech.
That said, some DPFs were retro-fitted to buses, especially California buses. These have the benefit of being able to be removed, and the resale value is high.
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A little help:
DPF = ?
EGR = ?
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05-11-2018, 06:26 AM
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#14
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Eustis FLORIDA
Posts: 23,830
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Freighliner FS65
Engine: Cat 3126
Rated Cap: 15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twigg
And EGR is the easy bit. Fairly reliable, and moderately priced to fix if it does go wrong.
I wouldn't let EGR stop me buying (although for those looking, the T444 was never fitted with it), but a DPF .... blech.
That said, some DPFs were retro-fitted to buses, especially California buses. These have the benefit of being able to be removed, and the resale value is high.
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With EGR, seems the DT's lost some reliability and longevity. Plus EGR engines are more expensive. So are the parts.
I'd definitely avoid ANYTHING Navistar once emissions kick in. There's a reason they're now putting Cummins in IC's.
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05-11-2018, 08:30 AM
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#15
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Mini-Skoolie
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Birmingham, AL
Posts: 41
Year: 2009
Coachwork: Thomas Built
Chassis: Saf-T-Liner EF
Engine: Cummins 6.7L ISB220
Rated Cap: Not sure. 29' length
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So, would this jury like this model....
http://www.lasvegasbussales.com/scho...ool-bus-b24372
I would like if it were SHORTER. Looking for <=38’
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05-11-2018, 08:30 AM
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#16
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Owasso, OK
Posts: 2,627
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Saf-T-Liner MVP ER
Engine: Cummins 6CTA8.3 Mechanical MD3060
Rated Cap: 46 Coach Seats, 40 foot
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BartStephens
A little help:
DPF = ?
EGR = ?
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DPF = Diesel Particulate Filter, fitted to exhaust
EGR = Exhaust Gas Recirculation, sends exhaust gasses back through cylinders to be burned again.
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05-11-2018, 08:54 AM
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#17
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Mini-Skoolie
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Birmingham, AL
Posts: 41
Year: 2009
Coachwork: Thomas Built
Chassis: Saf-T-Liner EF
Engine: Cummins 6.7L ISB220
Rated Cap: Not sure. 29' length
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twigg
DPF = Diesel Particulate Filter, fitted to exhaust
EGR = Exhaust Gas Recirculation, sends exhaust gasses back through cylinders to be burned again.
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OK. Thank you. It sounds like the surest bet is a model year before these systems became required (<2004?).
Question, on a later year, could you simply remove these devices if you live in an emission friendly state like Alabama?
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05-11-2018, 11:07 AM
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#18
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Dawsonville, Ga.
Posts: 10,482
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Genesis
Chassis: International
Engine: DT466/3060
Rated Cap: 77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BartStephens
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That's a $3k-$4K bus.
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05-11-2018, 12:37 PM
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#19
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Bus Geek
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Eastern WA
Posts: 6,404
Year: 2002
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: All American RE (A3RE)
Engine: Cummins ISC (8.3)
Rated Cap: 72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by o1marc
That's a $3k-$4K bus.
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Same drive trane as my 2002. I am very happy with it. I paid a bit over $3800 including auction fees. 170k miles and it runs and drives great.
However, buying at auction has risks. We have had two members recently that bought at auction and traveled to pick up the bus only to find that it doesn't run.
I think the price on this bus is quite high but I do think that there is some value to being able to test drive and thoroughly inspect a bus before putting your money down.
If you want the benefits of buying from a dealer you should expect to pay more than you would buying at auction but $17k is excessive IMHO.
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05-11-2018, 12:53 PM
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#20
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Skoolie
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Central MN
Posts: 191
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: TC RE
Engine: 8.3L
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Also it is a low roof model.
__________________
GaryC
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