SHUTTLE BUS Keyless Remote Issue

[Framus]

So I'm about half way through my conversion and this week I decided to tackle installing a BANVIE Car Keyless Entry System to my doors so I can use a FOB to open/close them instead of the switch on the main driver control panel. I believe I have everything wired up properly (as I can open and close the doors with the FOB) however when the doors close, after 5 seconds the doors automatically open again! Tried many things and just cannot figure this out. Any suggestions?

[Rucker]

If you can pop the battery out of the fob, close the door and remove the fob battery. That may help isolate it to one or the other side of the wireless transaction.

[Framus]

Idk if that would work bc I tried reconnecting the manual toggle switch, with the FOB still wired in. And when using the toggle switch to attempt to close the door, as soon as it was fully closed, I left go of the toggle switch and the door opened back up fully. And just to be clear, this was without pressing any buttons on the FOB at all. It's almost as if the bus door is recognizing that they are closed, and it's being told that it needs to be opened.

[Samweld]

Is the output from keyless entry system a momentary contact or a latching relay?

Also it could be possible that the bus door is designed to fail open or requires voltage to maintain a latched relay?

What type of switch was used on the bus itself was it a momentary contact or a dual throw (on off on)?

What type of actuator is used to open the door?

Some actuators have a return spring and will open when there is no power maintaining their position.

[Framus]

Thanks for the reply, Samweld. I believe the original switch was momentary as you had to hold it down either direction for it to work, then when released, it would disengage. OurWayToRoam recently posted a video on theirs and I purchased the same keyless unit hoping I can get it to work on my bus.

Here’s a link to my units diagram. The manufacturer actually has a lot of info on it, but can’t find the answer.

http://anmsystems.com/resources/1600E.pdf

[Truthseeker4449]

Are you sure that you didn't accidently miswire something and are now inadvertently supplying power to open the door while the system is otherwise in an idle state? Might be worth taking a test light to your connections to verify that things are actually happening the way you want them too.

[CHEESE_WAGON]

A few clarifications are in order here.

Which door(s) are we discussing? Are they pneumatic-controlled? Mechanical? If pneumatic, a pneumatic-controlled door uses a pneumatic solenoid controlled by a relay, and this could be a momentary vs constant relay control signal problem. For example, the door control could be designed to require constant voltage to the control relay / solenoid, which would cause them to open by default without power. This would require a bit of a work-around to achieve desired results.

Is the fob system-specific, or is this a factory key fob for the base vehicle's ignition? I ask because each have their own parameters of operation.

If the base vehicle's ignition is keyed, is the key in the ignition? I ask because some vehicles will automatically unlock right back if it senses the key in the ignition as an anti-lockout measure. And I believe under the right circumstances, one system could interfere with the other. This also applies to factory keyless entry if any fob to the vehicle is still inside when the BCM receives a signal to engage the door locks.

[Framus]

The doors are electric, here’s a link to their type:
Electric

Here is a link to the keyless entry I purchased, it is made to work for pneumatic:
https://tinyurl.com/dn8zath7

When I originally tested it I had all power from the vehicle disconnected. It was powered solely from my 12v battery bank.

Here is a video I found where the user has the same door and same keyless entry, and it worked for him, like a charm.
https://youtu.be/TQ8ZNfuGm6E

[Truthseeker4449]

I have some experience with this type of door mechanism, it's popular in cutaway transit applications especially Starcraft buses. It's usually controlled with a momentary 3 position switch, with no power being supplied in either direction with the switch in the neutral position.

I believe the behavior of your door suggests that something is not hooked up quite right. Perhaps an easy way to verify is hit the emergency release, slightly close the door by hand and see if the motor spins on its own. If so you'll need to track down where the power is coming from, if not then I would be a little leery of how the remote module is configured. Something might be back feeding into the door circuit.

[Framus]

Truthseeker, thank you! I did that test earlier and the motor did spin! So now in terms of tracing the power, the motor appears to receive power from a plug with 4 wires. I have my hot wire connecting to only 1
of these 4 wires. Are you suggest that the motor couls still be getting power from the car battery somewhere I don’t realize?

[Truthseeker4449]

Originally Posted by Framus

Truthseeker, thank you! I did that test earlier and the motor did spin! So now in terms of tracing the power, the motor appears to receive power from a plug with 4 wires. I have my hot wire connecting to only 1
of these 4 wires. Are you suggest that the motor couls still be getting power from the car battery somewhere I don’t realize?

That's good, we've got a solid direction now. Now you just need to figure out where this full time power is coming from.

If I'm understanding right, you tested the system with a separate power supply prior to hooking the batteries back up? If I'm misunderstanding than the backfeed theory is less likely, if I'm not then it's a possibility that something that wasn't "hot" when you initially hooked things up is hot now.

Put a bit differently, a wire you thought was a ground may have actually been a power wire, but the power was switched off at the time.

But regardless, you should double check your wiring connections against that video, especially wire splices and the connections on the microswitches. One pin off may be causing this. You should always be leery of your own work first when things aren't working right after you messed with something, it's a lesson I've learned the hard way as a mechanic.

[Framus]

Originally Posted by Truthseeker4449

That's good, we've got a solid direction now. Now you just need to figure out where this full time power is coming from.

If I'm understanding right, you tested the system with a separate power supply prior to hooking the batteries back up? If I'm misunderstanding than the backfeed theory is less likely, if I'm not then it's a possibility that something that wasn't "hot" when you initially hooked things up is hot now.

Put a bit differently, a wire you thought was a ground may have actually been a power wire, but the power was switched off at the time.

But regardless, you should double check your wiring connections against that video, especially wire splices and the connections on the microswitches. One pin off may be causing this. You should always be leery of your own work first when things aren't working right after you messed with something, it's a lesson I've learned the hard way as a mechanic.

When I had this all set up, it was being powered solely by my battery bank and there was no question which wire was my hot as I just ran the lines. As I removed the FOB and hooked up the original momentary after my failure yesterday I am going to attempt to reinstall the FOB again later today.

I looked on the A&M Systems website and they did make mention of a Null Switch and said this:

If the Door closes completely and then reopens on its own, inspect “Null Switch” for proper function. This switch is actuated by the rod end spacer at approximately the 95% closed position.

Either way extremely appreciate all the advice and after my attempts later I will be back with more info.

[Framus]

PROBLEM SOLVED!

So after failure, I rewired the mechanism back to how it was originally was. Today I had the idea to try to install it again, wiring the same exact way, but instead this time, before wiring it, leaving the doors in the CLOSED position as previously I started with them in the open position. Well...that worked! The motor must have some type of memory built in or something b/c when it was previously disconnected, perhaps the doors being open made something not register properly. Either way, appreciate all the feedback from you guys. Keep roamin'!

[Truthseeker4449]

Originally Posted by Framus

PROBLEM SOLVED!

So after failure, I rewired the mechanism back to how it was originally was. Today I had the idea to try to install it again, wiring the same exact way, but instead this time, before wiring it, leaving the doors in the CLOSED position as previously I started with them in the open position. Well...that worked! The motor must have some type of memory built in or something b/c when it was previously disconnected, perhaps the doors being open made something not register properly. Either way, appreciate all the feedback from you guys. Keep roamin'!

I'm glad to hear you got it figured out.

[Nonamebus]

I purchased the same remote and attempting to install. The wire step up is the same as previous videos/instructions. I spliced the appropriate wires from the remote to the motor wires (door open/ door closed). I am fortunate that the wires are stamped for the functions. I connected the remote and all that happened was a “click” from the Banvie remote box. The door still opened and closed with the bus toggle switch. (With and without the remote box connected) After sleeping on it, I got the bright idea to cut and splice the main power to the door motor. I reconnected the remote and it still only “clicks” and doesn’t work. I disconnected the remote. I re spliced the wires back to together to each other as it was originally. Since I cut and then respliced the main motor wire back together it only clicks (green light on motor lights) but doesn’t work the door. Why would the motor not work if I reconnected the wires back to the original configuration? Thanks