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Old 11-03-2017, 10:02 PM   #1
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Skinning 91 Crown Windows

I hear that it's steel and aluminum. I want the windows out. I'm planning on skinning over all of them when they are gone. I will decide where I want future rv windows and make it so I can cut into the area without having wiring obstructions or cabinets etc.

Is it best to do aluminum siding and rivets? Opinions welcomed. Ty

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Old 11-03-2017, 10:09 PM   #2
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I hear that it's steel and aluminum. I want the windows out. I'm planning on skinning over all of them when they are gone. I will decide where I want future rv windows and make it so I can cut into the area without having wiring obstructions or cabinets etc.

Is it best to do aluminum siding and rivets? Opinions welcomed. Ty

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For authenticity, aluminum side panels would be best.

If you go with steel you will need an insulator to prevent galvanic corrosion between the steel and the aluminum, and they do expand at different rates.
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Old 11-04-2017, 03:59 AM   #3
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For authenticity, aluminum side panels would be best.

If you go with steel you will need an insulator to prevent galvanic corrosion between the steel and the aluminum, and they do expand at different rates.
Then I might try and be more careful tearing ceiling out and reuse that with aluminum rivets. At some point aluminum might have to meet steel so I found closed cell neoprene tape recommended at a trailer site discussing galvanization. Mostly I needed to double check before diving in..ty

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Old 11-04-2017, 07:26 AM   #4
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I hear that it's steel and aluminum. I want the windows out. I'm planning on skinning over all of them when they are gone. I will decide where I want future rv windows and make it so I can cut into the area without having wiring obstructions or cabinets etc.

Is it best to do aluminum siding and rivets? Opinions welcomed. Ty

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In using 16 ga steel inserting between roof cap and lower side panel and Terrill through existing holes with pop rivets will paint when I paint the outside. Leave one window in rear to see one left front and 2 right side. Probably coat joints with burly rubber sealant or just let the paint do the job. Sheet metal 4 x 10 for $ 115 - 4 covers per sheet cut horizontally on the 4 foot side. Bought a metal blade from harbor freight for circular saw. Box of large head rivets was $60 FOR 5 lbs.

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Old 11-04-2017, 10:59 AM   #5
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In using 16 ga steel inserting between roof cap and lower side panel and Terrill through existing holes with pop rivets will paint when I paint the outside. Leave one window in rear to see one left front and 2 right side. Probably coat joints with burly rubber sealant or just let the paint do the job. Sheet metal 4 x 10 for $ 115 - 4 covers per sheet cut horizontally on the 4 foot side. Bought a metal blade from harbor freight for circular saw. Box of large head rivets was $60 FOR 5 lbs.

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Seems much sturdier than aluminum and I wouldn't need to worry about galvinizing effect but heavier and might cost more..on that I am unsure. I have ceiling to salvage. Will see what if I don't mangle it. Atm I'm about 55-45 in favor of the aluminum because I don't be have experience to know any better.

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Old 11-04-2017, 07:48 PM   #6
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Super IIs have aluminum body side panels. Why would you want to use steel? Do what Crown did, and keep with good aluminum. I covered just two windows on each side with 0.080" 6061 sheet, bonded in place with 3M 5200 marine adhesive. It's thick enough to not ripple or oilcan, and any expansion/contraction with temperature is absorbed by the flexibility of the polyurethane adhesive. (I also covered over the front warning flashers with another single piece of aluminum, again bonded in place with 3M 5200.) The hardest part of covering the side windows was prying the aluminum rain gutter extrusion slightly away from the roof so I could slip the new aluminum up under it, and chiseling out the mastic sealant under it. I don't know whether to (eventually) paint the blanked-over windows body color, or gloss black to match the eventual tinted side windows - maybe I'll do one side with body color and the other black! Inside each covered window I have three layers of 1/2" polyiso insulation to prevent too much heat transfer, then the 3/8" plywood and 1/8" Celtec for the interior.

Don't use ceiling aluminum - it's much too thin for exterior use, and it's got 1"-spaced rivet holes every 19". It's a semi-structural element of the bus's roof, so leave it in place if you can. There's already some fiberglass insulation up inside the ceiling, but obviously it isn't as effective as foam.

One more thing. Unless you plan on completely remanufacturing the entire body and all its structure, you will need to fit any RV windows between the existing window pillars. Most windows are about 36" long, but some are a few inches shorter. What's wrong with the existing windows? If you replace the inner rubber seals they'll be fine. C.R.Lawrence sells the glass's grey gasket by the roll, another job I need to do when I tint them all.

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Old 11-04-2017, 08:01 PM   #7
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yeah, don't use steel to cover aluminum.
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Old 11-04-2017, 08:59 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Iceni John View Post
Super IIs have aluminum body side panels. Why would you want to use steel? Do what Crown did, and keep with good aluminum. I covered just two windows on each side with 0.080" 6061 sheet, bonded in place with 3M 5200 marine adhesive. It's thick enough to not ripple or oilcan, and any expansion/contraction with temperature is absorbed by the flexibility of the polyurethane adhesive. (I also covered over the front warning flashers with another single piece of aluminum, again bonded in place with 3M 5200.) The hardest part of covering the side windows was prying the aluminum rain gutter extrusion slightly away from the roof so I could slip the new aluminum up under it, and chiseling out the mastic sealant under it. I don't know whether to (eventually) paint the blanked-over windows body color, or gloss black to match the eventual tinted side windows - maybe I'll do one side with body color and the other black! Inside each covered window I have three layers of 1/2" polyiso insulation to prevent too much heat transfer, then the 3/8" plywood and 1/8" Celtec for the interior.

Don't use ceiling aluminum - it's much too thin for exterior use, and it's got 1"-spaced rivet holes every 19". It's a semi-structural element of the bus's roof, so leave it in place if you can. There's already some fiberglass insulation up inside the ceiling, but obviously it isn't as effective as foam.

One more thing. Unless you plan on completely remanufacturing the entire body and all its structure, you will need to fit any RV windows between the existing window pillars. Most windows are about 36" long, but some are a few inches shorter. What's wrong with the existing windows? If you replace the inner rubber seals they'll be fine. C.R.Lawrence sells the glass's grey gasket by the roll, another job I need to do when I tint them all.

John
I was looking at the aluminum that I tore out. Didn't look good. Good to know the thickness of a successful paneling, in aluminum. Today I found a rust hole maybe 2x3" with sponge like insulation rot. Kids Funions and a crap load of candy wrappers blocked the drain on "drywall". I will treat it.

As for why steel is because I had to pick something. As for why remove all windows is because there is likely chance where I'm living in So Colo in the winter. I like the aluminum and will maybe wire in spot lights one day. This will be my home and I want to be comfortable. Single pane exiting means less insulation under window.

I have compressed nerve in my back. I need it comfortable for those off days. First excersise in 12 years and been racing to complete this on someone's property in a field eating canned fish an beans, covered in fiberglass even after cleaning it. But I don't regret taking this garbage rust inducing ping garbage out. Worth it.

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Old 11-04-2017, 08:59 PM   #9
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yeah, don't use steel to cover aluminum.
Crown did.

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Old 11-04-2017, 11:16 PM   #10
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With respect to windows ...

It is perfectly acceptable to add double-width windows. You will have to cut out the rib section that is in the way, but you can weld in a cantilever between the adjacent ribs, at the top and bottom of the cut. These act like lintels in a domestic structure.

As you are skinning over windows you are already stiffening the shell more than enough to compensate.
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Old 11-06-2017, 09:45 AM   #11
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Here is some of the crud you find in a Bakersfield, CA Crown. It's not immune to rust there. The hammer drill worked great. Being able to change angles of chisel was key, not sure if feature is on every type. The fine powdery dust was piled in thick.

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Old 11-06-2017, 11:13 AM   #12
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Here is some of the crud you find in a Bakersfield, CA Crown.
I'm sorry about your pet bunny.


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Old 11-06-2017, 07:16 PM   #13
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I'm sorry about your pet bunny.


Attachment 17089
I was going to call him Rusty but that name is taken. He was covered in rust.

I'm going to deal with the rust. Problem is Ospho requires rinsing right? So these pockets under the windows won't drain out and it is a pia to brush out. Help Obie won.

I did buy a can of Rust Transformer spray by Rust-Oleum. At least with that I can spray and pray. Rust is light mostly but not easy to reach.



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Old 11-06-2017, 07:36 PM   #14
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I was going to call him Rusty but that name is taken. He was covered in rust.

I'm going to deal with the rust. Problem is Ospho requires rinsing right? So these pockets under the windows won't drain out and it is a pia to brush out. Help Obie won.

I did buy a can of Rust Transformer spray by Rust-Oleum. At least with that I can spray and pray. Rust is light mostly but not easy to reach.



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The spray cans of Rust Reformer aren't anything special.
Buy a gallon of it, its a totally different chemical in the gallon. BEST rust converter I've ever seen.
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Old 11-06-2017, 07:55 PM   #15
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The spray cans of Rust Reformer aren't anything special.
Buy a gallon of it, its a totally different chemical in the gallon. BEST rust converter I've ever seen.
Ok I probably need a almost a gallon anyway. I might need to spray it in with the compressor. Well if I don't use it all the undercarriage might benefit from it.

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Old 11-06-2017, 08:16 PM   #16
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It goes on milky white/clear and then dries to a black color. Its unlike anything I've ever used.
I love ospho and use it a lot. But the gallon Rust Reformer is simply amazing stuff. Brush it on, roll it on, it really doesn't matter. spray it into places you can't access with a cheap disposable garden sprayer.
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Old 11-06-2017, 10:18 PM   #17
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I use a product called Restore by Quest Chemical. What I like about it is that it is a one step full treatment. No rinsing...and...it forms its' own final finish. All of the other similar products I have seen require a coat of paint over it to get the full benefit. This stuff does it all in one pass. And the final finish is a gnarly tough layer of polymer that I have tested for the last ten years on rebar that I use by the mile in my artwork. Just maybe the most rust prone metal on the planet. I even tried forcing it to rust and could not get it to do so. Good stuff. Paint on with a brush, roller, spray it...it doesn't seem to care.
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Old 11-07-2017, 04:25 AM   #18
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https://www.ncptt.nps.gov/blog/compa...st-converters/
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Old 11-08-2017, 09:06 AM   #19
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doh what size sheet metal

I left the bus for a day or maybe 2 to take a break from the madness. I needed to clean the fiberglass off my clothing and sleep better. Thing is that I realized that I could buy my aluminum sheets here in Oakland, CA but I don't have the measurements. Actually it couldn't hurt to double check regardless. So my windows are 24"x36"(?) if I remember correctly. It's the height that concerns me. I need some wiggle room and I don't know how much more than 24" height to go for a proper riveting. ty
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Old 11-08-2017, 02:46 PM   #20
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Ok I probably need a almost a gallon anyway. I might need to spray it in with the compressor. Well if I don't use it all the undercarriage might benefit from it.

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No compressor the stuff might actually eat some seals in your spray gun.
Get the gallon and a cheap plastic spray bottle from anywhere.
You can adjust the nozzle to jet for the corners and tight places and fan for the wider areas.
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