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Old 04-16-2020, 03:02 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by SamDee View Post
That’s really interesting! How do I get my air suspension to raise up and down?! I’m at a point now where I need to decide to lower them or not! As Iv cut one out for major repairs and now going back to the bus today to decide if I should cut the other one out or just offer mild repairs to it and fix the one I did cut out back in its original place after the repairs!!

Thoughts?!
Well now, our bus has a slow air leak and the air springs will deflate in a day or two.


I suppose that if I needed to deflate the air springs, I would loosen the air supply line going into the "load leveling" valve. This valve is located on the frame above the axle and just to the driver side of center. It is attached to the axle (differential) by a rod. This rod moves a lever on the valve which controls the air into and out of the air springs to adjust to various loads (like kids getting in and out).


In theory, one could free up the rod and use it to manually manipulate the air springs to whatever height is desired.
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Old 04-16-2020, 03:36 AM   #62
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I found the pictures I was thinking of concernig the wheel well measurements. I did not take the measurement of the "done" version, only the starting. I would go out in the bus and measure, but it is currently FULL of household goods and the wheel wells are inaccessable. In the daylight, I may see if I can measure inside of the wheel wells around the wheels.


While searching for the pictures, I found the video of the outside of the driver side while filling up the air springs. I did not catch it in the fully deflated state inthis video, but almost.


Edit: This was taken AFTER the wheel well was rebuilt/lowered.


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Old 04-16-2020, 03:40 AM   #63
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I had another thought concerning your wheel wells ... a couple of shots of the two areas in question would go a long way towards us providing suggestions. You thought your driver side was bad enough to take out the wheel well already ... what is different about the passenger side?
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Old 04-16-2020, 04:29 AM   #64
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Adjustments.jpg
Attachment 1
The areas in the purple line were inside the cavity wall and that has rusted completely through. I also removed it with the intention of lowering it after seeing your posts!

Attachment 1
Attachment 1

These areas look suspect to me too... looks like the floor inside the walls have rotted through and been shamefully fixed.


Attachment 1
Also a lot of my mud flap have rusted away from the wall of the van!
And found this in the bus.... think itís a sign

Attachment 1

Itís a new mudflap piece thatís welded to the wheel well then the rubber flap attached!
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Old 04-16-2020, 04:41 AM   #65
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So here's my wheel well...

0CA7D57C-2874-44A7-90C8-02067263E738.jpg

So the reasons I removed It was due to rust along the side of the outside wall where the wheel arch met the outer skin. The purple in this picture shows what is missing...
C8D3EAAA-0554-45BB-8392-F5E7ADA69FB2.jpg

Also as you mentioned you lowered yours I really wanted to do the same but then had reserves.... After I cut it out haha.

Also there appears to be some really bad repair jobs to the floor that sat inside the cavity here's some pictures....

IMG_3039.jpg
IMG_3040.jpg

And a lot of the metal "flap extenders" have rusted away from the body of the van
These are welded to the arch then have the rubber flap hanging from them..
IMG_3041.jpg



On the plus side I found a new one!!
8D7822F3-5179-42AC-8D02-4A67ED36940E.jpg

Do you think I could lower them by 2 inch?
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Old 04-16-2020, 05:41 AM   #66
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Your floor supports in front and behind the wheels look decent. I also love your tread pattern on your wheels.

The design of the edge of the floor where it meets the outer skin is a bit strange in the FS-65. hey put little 3"x3" pieces of sheet metal at the bottom of the wheel well arches where they meet the outer skin to deflect water away from the outer skin. Mine has that and it does look much like a botched patch job.

The attachment of the metal sheet that holds the mud flaps is also a bit strange. It is like that (or was) on our bus as well. They just tacked it to the wheel well a little way from the bottom and angled it out so that the mud flaps hang down and not at an angle. You are very fortunate that you found one.


Since I planned to attach the top portion of the wheel well to the refurbished floor structure, I had to attach the mud flap attachment metal (your new shiny piece) to the floor support.


To get the proper angle for the mud flaps, I tack welded the attachment metal at the top and used the welds as a pivot. I then attached the lower brace and welded the entire top seam. This is the forward flap attachment point with the tack welds:
Front-Lower Splash Guard.jpg


I did the same for the rear flap as well. Here are both in the finished state. You can see the lower braces coming from the lower corner towards the side wall and away from the wheel on both:
Reframed & Painted.jpg




Yes, I believe you can lower them 2 inches ... or more if you like. Just take lots of measurements and/or make a jig like I did to maintain the clearance you want. Most of all, take your time.
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Old 04-16-2020, 06:22 AM   #67
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I have two brand new mudflaps in my shed and I need get those on eventually. The beams that held them originally are in the pile of rusty floor behind my bus, but the new side beams are perfectly positioned for attaching the flaps directly, but I need to figure out exactly how I'm going to do that. I think the simplest way is just to run 4 bolts through the beam from the inside and weld the heads in place, then I can just hang the flaps on these bolts. Do you think four 1/4-20s would be sufficient to hold them, or should I go beefier?

I've been trying to locate some sort of mud flap bracket that I could just weld on from the outside, but I can't seem to find anything like that. The only mud flap hangers I've found are this variety: https://www.4statetrucks.com/mudflap...anger_3911.asp which isn't what I'm looking for (although they could work).
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Old 04-16-2020, 06:30 AM   #68
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Also there appears to be some really bad repair jobs to the floor that sat inside the cavity here's some pictures....
My bus had the same thing going, multiple crude attempts at repairing the rusted-out parts of the wells. I wonder to what extent bus mechanics are aware of the real source of this problem in terms of where the internal leaks are coming from. On the bus forums you often see "buses rust from the inside out" but not everybody seems to agree with that, and you will often see people describing the problem instead as the wheels kicking up water and snow and rusting the wells out from the outside.

Bus mechanics never have the "luxury" of being able to tear out the floors and walls and insulation and seeing exactly what's going on like we do.
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Old 04-16-2020, 06:33 AM   #69
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Do you think I could lower them by 2 inch?
Do it! You have to rebuild these things anyway, might as well take advantage and flatten them a bit.
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Old 04-16-2020, 06:40 AM   #70
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When you refer to mud flap hanger do you mean the shiny new one I got ?? I could measure that up for you if you want and send over a picture.

I may just drop mine down 2 inches then! With 2inchs on the floor itíll really lower the height of them, meaning the toilet would be lower!

Thanks guys for the help. Will upload pictures tomorrow evening!
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Old 04-16-2020, 06:51 AM   #71
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I have two brand new mudflaps in my shed and I need get those on eventually. The beams that held them originally are in the pile of rusty floor behind my bus, but the new side beams are perfectly positioned for attaching the flaps directly, but I need to figure out exactly how I'm going to do that. I think the simplest way is just to run 4 bolts through the beam from the inside and weld the heads in place, then I can just hang the flaps on these bolts. Do you think four 1/4-20s would be sufficient to hold them, or should I go beefier?

I've been trying to locate some sort of mud flap bracket that I could just weld on from the outside, but I can't seem to find anything like that. The only mud flap hangers I've found are this variety: https://www.4statetrucks.com/mudflap...anger_3911.asp which isn't what I'm looking for (although they could work).
1/4-20's are what originally held in our flaps ... with split washers. Simple nut, bolt, flat washers, split washers. I just did the same. You have the fab skills, make what works.
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Old 04-16-2020, 06:54 AM   #72
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When you refer to mud flap hanger do you mean the shiny new one I got ?? I could measure that up for you if you want and send over a picture.
The way Thomas does the mud flap hangers seems pretty different from International. In mine there is (or was) a cross-beam underneath that's about 5" behind the back of the wheel, so the mud flap was just hung straight down from this. I don't remember exactly how these mounting brackets looked - the least healthy mud flap dropped off during a drive some time last summer, and the other one was cut out but somehow didn't make it into my pile of floor scraps.

I have a new cross-beam in the same place, but this is 3" angle steel instead of the original upturned c-channel stiffener, so I would have to fabricate a custom bracket for the mud flaps no matter what.
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Old 04-16-2020, 07:03 AM   #73
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When you refer to mud flap hanger do you mean the shiny new one I got ?? I could measure that up for you if you want and send over a picture.

I may just drop mine down 2 inches then! With 2inchs on the floor itíll really lower the height of them, meaning the toilet would be lower!

Thanks guys for the help. Will upload pictures tomorrow evening!
Yes, that is the mud flap hanger ... better name for it. I do not need one, just think it interesting that you found one.
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Old 04-16-2020, 09:30 AM   #74
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Goodness that is a lot of rehab for wheel wells...Kinda glad I don't have them. However seeing what you have encountered and how you have repaired them is encouraging.
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Old 04-16-2020, 08:34 PM   #75
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Old 04-17-2020, 03:09 AM   #76
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Do it! You have to rebuild these things anyway, might as well take advantage and flatten them a bit.

So when the bus is sat I have around 9 1/2 clearance to the inside of the arch! After the bus is started and the air bags are raised we have around 13inchs!
Should be ok?
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Old 04-17-2020, 03:34 AM   #77
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So when the bus is sat I have around 9 1/2 clearance to the inside of the arch! After the bus is started and the air bags are raised we have around 13inchs!
Should be ok?
So, you measured the distance from the top of the wheel to the bottom of the wheel well (wheel arch) and it measured 9.5 inches when the air springs were deflated and 13 inches when they were filled up. That would mean that you have 3.5 inches of travel.


If you lower the wheel wells by two inches, you will have a minumum of 7.5 inches between the top of the wheel and the bottom of the wheel well (wheel arch). This is doable. I would venture that you could go even lower, say 4 inches to 6 inches and even at 6 inches you would have 3.5 inches of clearance when the air springs are deflated (i.e. when the axle is closest to the wheel well) and 9.5 inches when inflated.


Note: Remember that the wheel well is supported along the wall. You will need to lower the support to accomodate your new wheel well position.
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Old 04-17-2020, 03:48 AM   #78
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Yes!!! Exactly that thank you. I may go 3 inches. I don’t wanna push it.
If I got 3 inches that’ll give us 4 inches are well on our final floor so I’m fairly happy with that as it suits our layout.
Currently at the bus today so we’ll make a start on the other wheel well! All fun and games hey!
Thanks for your help
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Old 04-17-2020, 08:57 AM   #79
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Bit more rot busting today... any ideas how I can tackle this? So awkward to get at
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Old 04-17-2020, 09:05 AM   #80
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Attachment 43388
Attachment 1
Bit more rot busting today... any ideas how I can tackle this? So awkward to get at
That doesn't look too bad - you mean the little slightly bent rust tab underneath the trim, or the bottom of the floor above?
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