Starting a Skoolie Certification Process.

[nikitis]

I've been thinking about starting a Certification process for Skoolie building.

I've been reading about all of the problems that go along with Skoolie building. Mainly legal problems and obtaining insurance and additionally safety issues people create for themselves.

It would seem to me the solution to all 3 of these issues would be to start an official Skoolie Building Certification Process.

We have all the knowledge here on this forum collectively that we can confidently create guidelines for each step of the processes needed to ensure our own safety and help our cases with the insurance companies and overall make the world a bit safer.

This is in no way to imply taking away people's freedom to build but to have inspections to assure the builders they are doing things in a safe manner as to not only keep themselves alive, but also others they may wreck into. Busses are large vehicles.
We have to take more measures to ensure they are safer from the start of we want to be included in the world of insurance and be on par with RVs.

I've seen something like this type of certification process be created and take hold in the Paramotoring world. Some guys came together to create the PPG 1,2,and 3 certifications to help keep regulation on them from the FAA and it worked.

Certifications are powerful, and they show those who have no clue (insurers) that the issuers do know what they are talking about and as a new Skoolie owner shows you took time to seek out professionals to inspect your builds. It's about building confidence for those people in the work

I say we start one here, right now with a select few of you who have proven yourselves over and over you know what you are doing, being automatically inducted on the certification approve list.

I'll in my spare time draw up guidelines on inspection criteria.
Will likely lean in on many of you to provide guidance in certain areas as I cannot do it alone.

As I've been building out my bus I've been asking detailed questions on even menial things to understand the science of it and to determine the best way to build my bus out. I've purposefully choose a 30 year old bus because I knew it would need a ton of work and allow me to dig in deep and learn everything I can about skoolie building and I feel starting a certification is a way I can contribute to the cause for everyone's benefit.

My plan for the certification is to have 3 levels depending on the interests of the builder. This also makes it so the builder can still maintain a level of freedom and design and still get certified to some level. A level 3 would be for someone who has done a complete tear down and fortified every square inch of the body, taken pictures throughout the whole process, provided to an inspector, and had it inspected by designated qualified builders who can issue the cert, many of which could be you guys if you so desire and are qualified.



A level 2 could entail not a full tear down, but has had roof raise ribs inspected etc, and decks inspected with proper certified methods for mounting steel against aluminum for example, or even using certified and proven safe methods.

Level 1 could entail motor vehicle safety measures have been taken place like air brake line inspections, slack adjusters, tank status, etc, to ensure the vehicle is safe which may not help with insurance with a deck, wood stoves or a roof raise, but help insure for those not looking for a ton of modifications but simply need insurance to drive.

Now that I've said all of that, thoughts, criticisms?

I expect a lot of negativity around this post potentially and that is fine and is to be expected when such a process begins, I've seen it before in the Paramotoring world when certs first entered the space, but in the end it was a net benefit for all involved and it ensures far less deaths in flying, which is kind of the goal here as well for us and insurance companies to know we are not just randos building a hillbilly bus, but nice safe RVs.

When we have these guidelines fully developed and agreed upon, I will personally hold meetings with major insurance companies and present the certification in detail to get traction and to set expectations with them

[ewo1]

Originally Posted by nikitis

I've been thinking about starting a Certification process for Skoolie building.

I've been reading about all of the problems that go along with Skoolie building. Mainly legal problems and obtaining insurance and additionally safety issues people create for themselves.

It would seem to me the solution to all 3 of these issues would be to start an official Skoolie Building Certification Process.

We have all the knowledge here on this forum collectively that we can confidently create guidelines for each step of the processes needed to ensure our own safety and help our cases with the insurance companies and overall make the world a bit safer.

This is in no way to imply taking away people's freedom to build but to have inspections to assure the builders they are doing things in a safe manner as to not only keep themselves alive, but also others they may wreck into. Busses are large vehicles.
We have to take more measures to ensure they are safer from the start of we want to be included in the world of insurance and be on par with RVs.

I've seen something like this type of certification process be created and take hold in the Paramotoring world. Some guys came together to create the PPG 1,2,and 3 certifications to help keep regulation on them from the FAA and it worked.

Certifications are powerful, and they show those who have no clue (insurers) that the issuers do know what they are talking about and as a new Skoolie owner shows you took time to seek out professionals to inspect your builds. It's about building confidence for those people in the work

I say we start one here, right now with a select few of you who have proven yourselves over and over you know what you are doing, being automatically inducted on the certification approve list.

I'll in my spare time draw up guidelines on inspection criteria.
Will likely lean in on many of you to provide guidance in certain areas as I cannot do it alone.

As I've been building out my bus I've been asking detailed questions on even menial things to understand the science of it and to determine the best way to build my bus out. I've purposefully choose a 30 year old bus because I knew it would need a ton of work and allow me to dig in deep and learn everything I can about skoolie building and I feel starting a certification is a way I can contribute to the cause for everyone's benefit.

My plan for the certification is to have 3 levels depending on the interests of the builder. This also makes it so the builder can still maintain a level of freedom and design and still get certified to some level. A level 3 would be for someone who has done a complete tear down and fortified every square inch of the body, taken pictures throughout the whole process, provided to an inspector, and had it inspected by designated qualified builders who can issue the cert, many of which could be you guys if you so desire and are qualified.



A level 2 could entail not a full tear down, but has had roof raise ribs inspected etc, and decks inspected with proper certified methods for mounting steel against aluminum for example, or even using certified and proven safe methods.

Level 1 could entail motor vehicle safety measures have been taken place like air brake line inspections, slack adjusters, tank status, etc, to ensure the vehicle is safe which may not help with insurance with a deck, wood stoves or a roof raise, but help insure for those not looking for a ton of modifications but simply need insurance to drive.

Now that I've said all of that, thoughts, criticisms?

I expect a lot of negativity around this post potentially and that is fine and is to be expected when such a process begins, I've seen it before in the Paramotoring world when certs first entered the space, but in the end it was a net benefit for all involved and it ensures far less deaths in flying, which is kind of the goal here as well for us and insurance companies to know we are not just randos building a hillbilly bus, but nice safe RVs.

When we have these guidelines fully developed and agreed upon, I will personally hold meetings with major insurance companies and present the certification in detail to get traction and to set expectations with them

Getting people together on an idea has its challenges but on the surface i would tend to agree with your efforts.

2 of the biggest challenges, 1) money. Money will be required in order to get a wheel like that rolling, 2) acceptance- wiil there be acceptance by insurance companies or other certification organization ?

I do agree that a grass roots effort to build something like you shared but that will take some dedicated soldiers to do!

[nikitis]

Originally Posted by ewo1

Getting people together on an idea has its challenges but on the surface i would tend to agree with your efforts.

2 of the biggest challenges, 1) money. Money will be required in order to get a wheel like that rolling, 2) acceptance- wiil there be acceptance by insurance companies or other certification organization ?

I do agree that a grass roots effort to build something like you shared but that will take some dedicated soldiers to do!

On those fronts Acceptance comes once it's built. If the efforts aren't made it will never be built and acceptance will never come so we gotta start somewhere. This is why I suggest start by putting together guidelines and checklists of things that should be certified in a skoolie build.

Money won't be that big of an issue at first. I have some ideas of how this process could be monetized. I want to make it clear that making money is NOT the goal we'd be trying to accomplish. But if money is required to operate then make enough for operating costs and to pay those certifying the builds for their time, and if I'm going to push this, money making will never be the goal of the certification. However that being said, if we do end up getting people capable of certifying the process, a small fee could be charged for their time going through and analyzing the certification and also letting a builder know what needs to be done to correct a problem. It could be a quick side job for those capable of giving a certification.

Money is not required to create the certification process, and I can offer the development of it. The authority for the certification process is created on it's merit, and then recognized by the community. Then once developed, it is then presented to insurance companies. If this falls on deaf ears or fails to move needle at all, then legislation may be required to force insurance companies to accept certified skoolies which maybe will cost some money to push. I still think even presenting certifications for underwriters to review alone would help push them in the right direction. Seeing notorized documents that the bus was inspected and certfied safe can go a long way in an underwriting decision.

It changes the dynamic of a homebrew DYI project to you are following Skoolie Building Safety Standards, and the certification of your build proves it was looked over by qualified individuals through every step of the process. Over time, those buses that were certified will have less issues, and give the insurance companies more assurance that the process works.

[skoontz]

I really like the idea of developing certificates to verify that a skoolie is not a rolling death trap. I'm not sure about the levels idea, but perhaps there could be separate certifications for certain modifications. This way someone could get just the certifications that are applicable to their particular skoolie.
Just brainstorming some ideas:
Base vehicle safety (i.e. an inspection of the base vehicle's main systems, brakes, engine, lights, etc.)

Driver safety (could be satisfied with a CDL for those that have it, or some similar training)
DC electrical
AC electrical
Plumbing
Structural modifications (roof raises, etc)
HVAC
Interior additions (especially focused on durability of mounting for safety)
other areas?

[ewo1]

One of the thing that WILL be required is sitting down in meetings with at least 1 insurance carrier so as to understand what they would like to see in order for them to custom a policy that has specific risks identified and ultimately accepted as a minimum standards for a skoolie build to be insured.

When I say money is required it is because there WILL be expenses required for transportation, lodging and meals at a very minimum in order to get to the meetings with any insurance carrier.

Sure you could do zoom but there is nothing better than face to face.

I guess the very first step to take is to create some sort of "advisory" council that can at the very least work on an initial "plan" on how to make the first few steps.

doing here on the forum IS NOT gonna work, a small group of interested parties will need to begin working on this outside of the forum....

Again, that takes dedicated soldiers. Most skoolie owners/builder do not even finish the build and sell because of many life changing reasons so that leaves the die-hards who really believe and have the time, energy and resources to carry such an endeavor forward.

getting a certification program started is serious business, takes alot of hard work and alot of your free time.

We could spin this topic all week long but without an initial startup team, this will remain nothing more than conversation.

So the real first questions might be:

1) who believes this can be done?
2) do I have time to get involved personally and directly and if so, how much time do I have free?
3) Am I able and willing to put in a ton of non paid time and effort into such an effort?
4) In the end what would the pros and cons look like if such an effort were put together?

I was a past president of the Florida Repossessor association and let me tell you, non paid position, haters hating, non reimbursed expenses when attending the Florida PIRSAC meetings (fuel, hotel and food). such an endeavor will involve quite a bit of lobbying which in itself requires funds (money) to do effectively.

So to begin, any volunteers out there who would like to get personally and financially involved?

[nikitis]

Originally Posted by skoontz

I really like the idea of developing certificates to verify that a skoolie is not a rolling death trap. I'm not sure about the levels idea, but perhaps there could be separate certifications for certain modifications. This way someone could get just the certifications that are applicable to their particular skoolie.
Just brainstorming some ideas:
Base vehicle safety (i.e. an inspection of the base vehicle's main systems, brakes, engine, lights, etc.)

Driver safety (could be satisfied with a CDL for those that have it, or some similar training)
DC electrical
AC electrical
Plumbing
Structural modifications (roof raises, etc)
HVAC
Interior additions (especially focused on durability of mounting for safety)
other areas?

This is why the different levels of certifications. The goal of this is to also maintain the freedom of how much one wants to put into a Skoolie. We believe anyone should be able to get insurance as long as their vehciles are safe to drive regardless of modifications.

Take for example wood stoves. You can securely mount wood stoves to where even in a wreck they aren't going to fly foward killing the driver or through the windshield killing other drivers. If done properly and certified there should be no reason insurance companies should have to worry about those issues.

Also, many people just leave the walls up and never take down anything and just screw into the side panels. Some will never run wiring even and just plug into a battery backup and throw the mattress in there. For those types, we'd include base vehicle safety certifications, And for those doing the full Monty can get the base vehicle safety certifications as well the the other types of items. I'm of course speaking generally right now but I plan to draw it up in an outline for all to see and comment, and add everyones 2 cents.

[Malevolence4845]

Originally Posted by nikitis

I've been thinking about starting a Certification process for Skoolie building.

I've been reading about all of the problems that go along with Skoolie building. Mainly legal problems and obtaining insurance and additionally safety issues people create for themselves.

It would seem to me the solution to all 3 of these issues would be to start an official Skoolie Building Certification Process.

We have all the knowledge here on this forum collectively that we can confidently create guidelines for each step of the processes needed to ensure our own safety and help our cases with the insurance companies and overall make the world a bit safer.

This is in no way to imply taking away people's freedom to build but to have inspections to assure the builders they are doing things in a safe manner as to not only keep themselves alive, but also others they may wreck into. Busses are large vehicles.
We have to take more measures to ensure they are safer from the start of we want to be included in the world of insurance and be on par with RVs.

I've seen something like this type of certification process be created and take hold in the Paramotoring world. Some guys came together to create the PPG 1,2,and 3 certifications to help keep regulation on them from the FAA and it worked.

Certifications are powerful, and they show those who have no clue (insurers) that the issuers do know what they are talking about and as a new Skoolie owner shows you took time to seek out professionals to inspect your builds. It's about building confidence for those people in the work

I say we start one here, right now with a select few of you who have proven yourselves over and over you know what you are doing, being automatically inducted on the certification approve list.

I'll in my spare time draw up guidelines on inspection criteria.
Will likely lean in on many of you to provide guidance in certain areas as I cannot do it alone.

As I've been building out my bus I've been asking detailed questions on even menial things to understand the science of it and to determine the best way to build my bus out. I've purposefully choose a 30 year old bus because I knew it would need a ton of work and allow me to dig in deep and learn everything I can about skoolie building and I feel starting a certification is a way I can contribute to the cause for everyone's benefit.

My plan for the certification is to have 3 levels depending on the interests of the builder. This also makes it so the builder can still maintain a level of freedom and design and still get certified to some level. A level 3 would be for someone who has done a complete tear down and fortified every square inch of the body, taken pictures throughout the whole process, provided to an inspector, and had it inspected by designated qualified builders who can issue the cert, many of which could be you guys if you so desire and are qualified.



A level 2 could entail not a full tear down, but has had roof raise ribs inspected etc, and decks inspected with proper certified methods for mounting steel against aluminum for example, or even using certified and proven safe methods.

Level 1 could entail motor vehicle safety measures have been taken place like air brake line inspections, slack adjusters, tank status, etc, to ensure the vehicle is safe which may not help with insurance with a deck, wood stoves or a roof raise, but help insure for those not looking for a ton of modifications but simply need insurance to drive.

Now that I've said all of that, thoughts, criticisms?

I expect a lot of negativity around this post potentially and that is fine and is to be expected when such a process begins, I've seen it before in the Paramotoring world when certs first entered the space, but in the end it was a net benefit for all involved and it ensures far less deaths in flying, which is kind of the goal here as well for us and insurance companies to know we are not just randos building a hillbilly bus, but nice safe RVs.

When we have these guidelines fully developed and agreed upon, I will personally hold meetings with major insurance companies and present the certification in detail to get traction and to set expectations with them

I've seen a fair amount of builds and many are just beautiful, safe, redundant designs that would put Thor or Forest river to shame (I work with RV's and trust me, sometimes that's not hard to do) some make me want to scream and run for the hill, fresh water tanks and electrical systems in the same area with no bulkhead or protection, buss bars drilled out because they didn't fit...3 gauges too small wires etc etc.

I'm 26 and extremely lucky to have spent so much time with my grandpa before losing him, I grew up building barns on the farm, helping wire new garages (he was color blind so it was my job haha) but there are a lot of people my age or younger wanting to do this or Van Life and they don't understand everything that goes into making them safe as well as comfortable. On the most basic sides a lot do not understand is, how much time needs to be dedicated to maintain the chassis itself.

I used to work for Fedex Freight and was very used to pre and post trip DOT inspections and many don't know that's something you need to do. A lot just get in and drive hundreds of miles thinking oil is the only thing to worry about. I think as a community we need to pursue every avenue to protect ourselves, other motorists, and new members. At the very basic level we need to educate people coming into this so they know what's ahead.

I wonder if we could incorporate audit stations at Wanderlust Waypoints. Follow a guide and have someone who has backgrounds in electrical or plumbing to tick the boxes and see things were done safely. or make a very detailed guidebook for how to test yourself and make sure you're good to go. I am onboard with this and I'm still a newbie I'd say but if there's a way to help this gain traction I'm in.

[Ross]

This is a good idea. It will need a solid group of folks to get it off the ground.
My insurance company initially refused to cover me and my skoolie, but changed their minds when I wrote this letter, dated 9 Dec 2022, and submitted pictures of the inside and outside:

Dear Amica Customer Service,

Here are the requested pictures of our RV /bus conversion.

Some additional information:

This vehicle is used for occasional camping and traveling only.
It is stored on our property.

The vehicle is in excellent mechanical condition, and has zero rust. (Alabama origin)
New tires all around in December 2021-
Drive axle: Toyo M922 winter traction 11R 22.5
Steer axle: Toyo M122 11R 22.5
The tires have approximately 3500 miles on them.
All lights and mirrors are in proper working condition.
The vehicle has a back-up camera system.

All appliances are RV type: furnace, cooktop, water heater, refrigerator - all installed according to manufacturer's instructions.

In building this conversion, I have followed the guidelines set forth in NFPA 1192, Standards For Recreational Vehicles; NFPA 70, (NEC) Article 551; and ANSI/RVIA Low Voltage Systems in Conversion RVs.
I am retired from a lifetime of construction and machinery troubleshooting and repair.
Everything in the build is fastened with proper bolts and screws. Nothing is fastened with nails.

There is only Marcia and myself traveling and camping. We are the only drivers, and we do not carry passengers. However, since it is required, there are seat belts for all seating spots.

It does not have, nor will it ever have, a wood stove.

There has been no roof raise, nor any other structural body modifications, nor a rooftop deck. The rack on top is for the solar panels only, is through-bolted to the structural body ribs, and is seriously over built for their weight.

I've included the photo of Marcia and myself simply because Marcia is so darn cute.

Let me know if anything else is needed.

Sincerely,
Ross Osborne

I realize that this is a new proposal. Sure to be fleshed out as more ideas come in. But I'm a little surprised I haven't seen any mention of the current codes already employed in the RV industry. I'm curious to see where this goes. I don't know how much time I could devote to such a thing, as I'm involved heavily with a local jazz non-profit.

[Ross]

I recently had an appraisal done on the bus conversion by a certified automotive appraiser. He valued it at $60k.

I personally like the nickname "Skoolie", but I think we might want to consider referring to our builds as "bus conversions" when communicating with various officials.

We recently went to a local music festival where there were, of course, a few skoolies set up in the camping area, and all of them but one was what I'd consider ugly.

That doesn't help our cause.

Just throwing in another two cents.

[nikitis]

Originally Posted by ewo1

One of the thing that WILL be required is sitting down in meetings with at least 1 insurance carrier so as to understand what they would like to see in order for them to custom a policy that has specific risks identified and ultimately accepted as a minimum standards for a skoolie build to be insured.

When I say money is required it is because there WILL be expenses required for transportation, lodging and meals at a very minimum in order to get to the meetings with any insurance carrier.

Sure you could do zoom but there is nothing better than face to face.

I guess the very first step to take is to create some sort of "advisory" council that can at the very least work on an initial "plan" on how to make the first few steps.

doing here on the forum IS NOT gonna work, a small group of interested parties will need to begin working on this outside of the forum....

Again, that takes dedicated soldiers. Most skoolie owners/builder do not even finish the build and sell because of many life changing reasons so that leaves the die-hards who really believe and have the time, energy and resources to carry such an endeavor forward.

getting a certification program started is serious business, takes alot of hard work and alot of your free time.

We could spin this topic all week long but without an initial startup team, this will remain nothing more than conversation.

So the real first questions might be:

1) who believes this can be done?
2) do I have time to get involved personally and directly and if so, how much time do I have free?
3) Am I able and willing to put in a ton of non paid time and effort into such an effort?
4) In the end what would the pros and cons look like if such an effort were put together?

I was a past president of the Florida Repossessor association and let me tell you, non paid position, haters hating, non reimbursed expenses when attending the Florida PIRSAC meetings (fuel, hotel and food). such an endeavor will involve quite a bit of lobbying which in itself requires funds (money) to do effectively.

So to begin, any volunteers out there who would like to get personally and financially involved?

I agree sit down meetings will be required which is why I mentioned it in the first post. Also if money is involved, to pay for a Bus trip to the insurance companies HQ's to also provide a visual inspection example as a selling point for our meetings, I will also provide full transparency of the funds and will be on display. I can create a website for the certification and tracking of funds. The website is within my capability to do in my spare time. A lot of this will be volunteered work. We may ask for donations at some point but we're not there yet. We are just at the very beginning of the concept and planning stage of this process right now.

In the later stages of this process, I would definitely include some of the main posters on this site who would want to have the certification authority who help others and comment and have done the process themselves as we'll need knowledgeable people to do approvals. If this process were to get huge, and an organization is born from it we can consider what that means down the road.

It could be a good side gig for people. In the Paramotoring world when the certifications were setup, they created job opportunities for go getter types to become trainers and certifiers. They would inspect people's paramotors to ensure they were in working order and safe to fly with. The process really is no different from what we could do. We'll need people who can train, educate, and certify buses.

I like the idea of skoolie with the name. We could use bus conversions but for the insurance companies the term bus conversions may have already been soured. We can differentiate the two definitions with our certification and associate the term bus conversion with non-certified vehicles and associate certified converted buses as "Skoolies". Nothing is set in stone however yet, we're just brainstorming.

[ewo1]

Originally Posted by nikitis

I agree sit down meetings will be required which is why I mentioned it in the first post. Also if money is involved, to pay for my Bus trip to the insurance companies HQ's to also provide a visual inspection example as a selling point for my meeting, I will also provide full transparency of the funds and will be on display. I can create a website for the certification and tracking of funds. The website is within my capability to do in my spare time. A lot of this will be volunteered work. We may ask for donations at some point but we're not there yet. We are just at the very beginning of the concept and planning stage of this process right now.

In the later stages of this process, I would definitely include some of the main posters on this site who would want to have the certification authority who help others and comment and have done the process themselves as we'll need knowledgeable people to do approvals. If this process were to get huge, and an organization is born from it we can consider what that means down the road.

I think it would be greatly beneficial to the efforts if we could get some discussion time with an underwriter either formally or informally and query them why is it they say NO and if possible get a copy of underwriting guidelines before we start having meetings, creating certifications. Without some sort of verification or basic dialogue we’d be moving somewhat forward without some sort of guidlines or clearer understanding of an insurance companies risk factor schedules.

[TaliaDPerkins]

. . . to claim it can all only be a scam and come to tears.

This is how no few "underwriters labs" certification organizations have come into being.

Something like the RVIA is exactly the same thing, only of industrial RV manufacturers.

I would be happy to contribute to any such effort.

Maybe AIBRV, Association of Independent Built Recreational Vehicles.

[TaliaDPerkins]

Originally Posted by Ross

I realize that this is a new proposal.

It's actually been kicking around (mostly kicked at) for a few years now.


I heartily endorse adopting certain NFPA standards.

[BamaBus]

Originally Posted by TaliaDPerkins

I am very glad none of the pathological skeptics have shown up here yet . . .. . . to claim it can all only be a scam and come to tears.

Don't worry, I'm here!

[nikitis]

Originally Posted by ewo1

I think it would be greatly beneficial to the efforts if we could get some discussion time with an underwriter either formally or informally and query them why is it they say NO and if possible get a copy of underwriting guidelines before we start having meetings, creating certifications. Without some sort of verification or basic dialogue we’d be moving somewhat forward without some sort of guidlines or clearer understanding of an insurance companies risk factor schedules.

Definitely some investigative efforts will need to be done on this front to understand. The point of the certification is to ensure safety and to better prove to underwriters this is the case. But you're right we could be missing the mark still because it may (and likely is) coming down to money and greediness by the insurance companies. They see an opportunity to not have to accept RV rates and could be exploiting it potentially wanting more money. "Skoolies" also cause a lot of damage in wrecks, but no more than traditional RV's. And many skoolies aren't driven as often as a normal cars like RV's in most cases. (Not all, of course some live in them and drive them all the time). We know this, but is often used an excuse to extract more money. This shouldn't be acceptable if ever brought up in negotiation tactics with your getting your personal insurance on your buses.

Originally Posted by Ross

I realize that this is a new proposal. Sure to be fleshed out as more ideas come in. But I'm a little surprised I haven't seen any mention of the current codes already employed in the RV industry. I'm curious to see where this goes. I don't know how much time I could devote to such a thing, as I'm involved heavily with a local jazz non-profit.

We can certainly adopt aspects of some of those standards. I would like to not just do a carbon copy though as was already pointed out by some here that RV standards aren't that great in some areas. Since we're developing our own standards here and understand bus chassis and bodies better than most, we have an opportunity to set a standard of what's right for Skoolies. As much as we want to classify our buses as RV's, States are beginning to deny title changes across the country, and Insurance companies clearly don't see converted buses as RV's, so we likely shouldn't be doing exact copies of existing standards. I'm all for picking the good parts out of or reviewing the existing standards for RV's and using parts from them that fit well with Skoolies, but we have a chance to solidify a new class of RV here with certification.

Also important that during certification that we don't make it become unaffordable for those wanting to be certified. Many will have issue with a standardization which may cause it to price some people out of being able to build their buses and is why I want this process to be as open ended as possible while allowing for customizability, but with that being said we do want to have a certified safety standard that if someone wishes to follow can have their bus be certified and used for whatever reason they require it for. Insurance just being one aspect.

Another aspect is campsites. Sometimes camps won't want Skoolies camping there because of the DIY aspect of it. All it takes is for some bus owner who improperly mounted a propane tank and it explodes causing to set their camp on fire as an example, or a 250k mile diesel dripping oil all over the place as another example. You get the idea. Certification can be shown to campgrounds as well and be convinced to increase access for parking spaces for skoolies.

[ewo1]

Originally Posted by TaliaDPerkins]
I am very glad none of the pathological skeptics have shown up here yet . . .. . . to claim it can all only be a scam and come to tears.

Originally Posted by BamaBus

Don't worry, I'm here!

Well welcome then!

Don't forget your profile pic !

I found it just incase you were looking for it!




ROFLMAO !!!!

[turf]

Originally Posted by BamaBus

Don't worry, I'm here!

me too!!!

hey, this has been done and talked about before.

cool idea and great intentions, but we're cheap hobbyist and not manufacturers.

so if you want it to take off, everyone send $1000 to whoever started the thread. what do you think it will cost for a national organization with lawyers and all. in the community of a 1000? maybe a million dollars will get this organization going? then we'll have to have annual fees.

it may be smart to build to the high standards yall profess, but to make your own organization to recognize your own work... hmmmm sounds like an insurance scam.

i forget who it was that organized this last time. it was a biker chick whos bus wasnt anything to write home about. wes lewis was involved, we had a meeting. it was a day at a colorado bus gathering many years ago.

and thats as far as it gets.

we're cheap, does the cost really doesnt provide any benefit? other than a nice pat on the back?

a sticker will not change the mind of a park that doesnt want you.

for a 1 off custom build, stay out of my business.

[TaliaDPerkins]

it may be smart to build to the high standards yall profess, but to make your own organization to recognize your own work... hmmmm sounds like an insurance scam.

Honesty not only exists, it is usual.

we're cheap, does the cost really doesnt provide any benefit? other than a nice pat on the back?

It's cheaper than driving around uninsured and being unrepresented in an accident.

And yes, we are manufacturers, maybe of only 1 vehicle ever or at a time, but we are.

for a 1 off custom build, stay out of my business.

Downright paranoid for you to think other people cooperating towards a goal is them interfering in your business.

[turf]

Originally Posted by TaliaDPerkins

Honesty not only exists, it is usual.




It's cheaper than driving around uninsured and being unrepresented in an accident.

And yes, we are manufacturers, maybe of only 1 vehicle ever or at a time, but we are.





Downright paranoid for you to think other people cooperating towards a goal is them interfering in your business.

thanks tom, im not paranoid, i just dont need to pay you to inspect my work. are you a certified inspector of hobbies? i have questions on how to attach my telescope pier to the roof of my bus.

i also have collision, comprehensive and liability insurance with state farm, so idk why i'd need an association to help with that. i was able to get that on my own.

and honesty? wtf? what? how am i dishonest?

im fine with your organization, until it cost me money

[TaliaDPerkins]

Tom is not my name,

"i just dont need to pay you to inspect my work"

So what? I did not say you did. I do have to note is weird that same paranoid person who claims this . . .

"but to make your own organization to recognize your own work... hmmmm sounds like an insurance scam."

. . . Is apparently scared to death someone might look at their work.


Other people cooperating to help make their vehicles insurable with economic reasonableness is not a threat to you.


Unless for some reason you should be uninsurable, and you fear that reasonable standards you know you will not meet are adopted jurisdictionally.