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07-31-2021, 01:04 PM
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#1
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Mini-Skoolie
Join Date: Jul 2021
Location: Washington state
Posts: 16
Year: 2004
Coachwork: International
Chassis: 3800
Engine: DT466E / 2000
Rated Cap: 9 window
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Subfloor question
We are seeing a million ways to skin the cat on subfloor and flooring insulation.
From -
Metal floor + rigid foam + t and g
Metal floor + 2x support boards with foam between + t and g
To a million other options.
So what did you do and why? We are getting close to this part of the build and don't quite have a decision in what to do.
Thanks in advance!
Dan
#rollingossuary
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07-31-2021, 01:20 PM
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#2
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 6,992
Year: 2003
Coachwork: International
Chassis: CE 300
Engine: DT466e
Rated Cap: 65C-43A
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Way 1,000,001:
I welded wood screws to the steel floor (point up), then laid down 2" XPS foam board, then spun 2" long pieces of oak dowel rod through holes in the foam onto each welded screw. Then I put down 3/4" plywood and screwed it to the dowels. The insulation is as good as a "floating" floor but it has a solid mechanical connection between the plywood and the steel floor (not just relying on glue like a floating floor) without putting any additional holes in the steel layer.
The downsides are that it's more work than any other method and it's a bit hazardous to be walking around with all these caltrops on the floor (it's also a bit more expensive, since oak dowel ain't cheap). Very pleased with it - now that's it all done.
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07-31-2021, 03:53 PM
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#3
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Dawsonville, Ga.
Posts: 10,482
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Genesis
Chassis: International
Engine: DT466/3060
Rated Cap: 77
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1/2" rigid foam insulation followed by a layer of 1" glued down,with channels routed for Pex water lines to heat the floor. This is topped with snap together flooring with vapor barrier.
__________________
I Thank God That He Gifted Me with Common Sense
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08-09-2021, 05:22 PM
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#4
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Jul 2021
Location: Southern Oregon
Posts: 1,607
Year: 1996
Coachwork: AmTran (Now Navistar)
Engine: DT444E (7.3L) International
Rated Cap: 31,800 pounds
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Not yet built but we're going with Brian and Erin's (BEAP) way.
Fomular 150 (15 psi compressive strength - Fomular 250 has 25 psi compressive strength if you want overkill) glued to the corrosion treated steel floor.
1/2" plywood sub floor glued to the Fomular.
Finish flooring over the plywood sub floor.
__________________
YouTube: HAMSkoolie WEB: HAMSkoolie.com
We've done so much, for so long, with so little, we now do the impossible, overnight, with nothing. US Marines -- 6531, 3521. . . .Ret ASE brakes & elect. Ret (auto and aviation mech). Extra Class HAM, NAUI/PADI OpenWater diver
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08-09-2021, 05:32 PM
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#5
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Mini-Skoolie
Join Date: Jul 2021
Location: Washington state
Posts: 16
Year: 2004
Coachwork: International
Chassis: 3800
Engine: DT466E / 2000
Rated Cap: 9 window
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Holy cow! That is super detailed!
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08-09-2021, 05:37 PM
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#6
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Dawsonville, Ga.
Posts: 10,482
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Genesis
Chassis: International
Engine: DT466/3060
Rated Cap: 77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HamSkoolie
Not yet built but we're going with Brian and Erin's (BEAP) way.
Fomular 150 (15 psi compressive strength - Fomular 250 has 25 psi compressive strength if you want overkill) glued to the corrosion treated steel floor.
1/2" plywood sub floor glued to the Fomular.
Finish flooring over the plywood sub floor.
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I don't know why anyone is concerned about the PSI of Foamular, or plywood. That 15PSI is 2000lb per square foot, 250 3600psi. Add 1/2" plywood at 43,000lbs per square foot. We're at 45K persquare feet before adding finish flooring. What are we carrying that we would be concerned about the PSI of the floor?
__________________
I Thank God That He Gifted Me with Common Sense
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08-09-2021, 05:59 PM
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#7
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Jul 2021
Location: Southern Oregon
Posts: 1,607
Year: 1996
Coachwork: AmTran (Now Navistar)
Engine: DT444E (7.3L) International
Rated Cap: 31,800 pounds
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Quote:
Originally Posted by o1marc
I don't know why anyone is concerned about the PSI of Foamular, or plywood. That 15PSI is 2000lb per square foot, 250 3600psi. Add 1/2" plywood at 43,000lbs per square foot. We're at 45K persquare feet before adding finish flooring. What are we carrying that we would be concerned about the PSI of the floor?
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It merely demonstrates that there is no structural need to support the sub floor with framing. The Foam with 1/2 ply over it is more than structural enough to support any load placed on it including the feet of furniture or chairs.
I've just seen a lot of builds where they "support" the subfloor with wood framing and fit fomular between the frames.
__________________
YouTube: HAMSkoolie WEB: HAMSkoolie.com
We've done so much, for so long, with so little, we now do the impossible, overnight, with nothing. US Marines -- 6531, 3521. . . .Ret ASE brakes & elect. Ret (auto and aviation mech). Extra Class HAM, NAUI/PADI OpenWater diver
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08-09-2021, 06:06 PM
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#8
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Dawsonville, Ga.
Posts: 10,482
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Genesis
Chassis: International
Engine: DT466/3060
Rated Cap: 77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HamSkoolie
It merely demonstrates that there is no structural need to support the sub floor with framing. The Foam with 1/2 ply over it is more than structural enough to support any load placed on it including the feet of furniture or chairs.
I've just seen a lot of builds where they "support" the subfloor with wood framing and fit fomular between the frames.
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Ya, I could never understand the need for framing the floor for insulation.
I have 1.5" foamular with a vapor barrier for the floating laminate flooring on top.
__________________
I Thank God That He Gifted Me with Common Sense
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08-09-2021, 07:38 PM
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#9
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Jul 2021
Location: Southern Oregon
Posts: 1,607
Year: 1996
Coachwork: AmTran (Now Navistar)
Engine: DT444E (7.3L) International
Rated Cap: 31,800 pounds
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Quote:
Originally Posted by o1marc
Ya, I could never understand the need for framing the floor for insulation.
I have 1.5" foamular with a vapor barrier for the floating laminate flooring on top.
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So you put the laminate directly on the Fomular (and vapor barrier) with no ply wood sub floor between them?
Hows that working out long term? I could save 1/2" of head space and the cost of 1/2" ply these days is insane.
__________________
YouTube: HAMSkoolie WEB: HAMSkoolie.com
We've done so much, for so long, with so little, we now do the impossible, overnight, with nothing. US Marines -- 6531, 3521. . . .Ret ASE brakes & elect. Ret (auto and aviation mech). Extra Class HAM, NAUI/PADI OpenWater diver
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08-09-2021, 07:45 PM
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#10
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Dawsonville, Ga.
Posts: 10,482
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Genesis
Chassis: International
Engine: DT466/3060
Rated Cap: 77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HamSkoolie
So you put the laminate directly on the Fomular (and vapor barrier) with no ply wood sub floor between them?
Hows that working out long term? I could save 1/2" of head space and the cost of 1/2" ply these days is insane.
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Everything I'm building is being attached to the walls, so little floor weight. Between 1.5 foamular and laminate at 300psi, what's to worry about.? My floor has a cushiony feel to it which I find comfortable and not like a hardwood floor. The only use the floor will see is walking on, which at my weight is 2.65PSI. I think I'm good.
__________________
I Thank God That He Gifted Me with Common Sense
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08-10-2021, 03:50 PM
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#11
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Jul 2021
Location: Southern Oregon
Posts: 1,607
Year: 1996
Coachwork: AmTran (Now Navistar)
Engine: DT444E (7.3L) International
Rated Cap: 31,800 pounds
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Quote:
Originally Posted by o1marc
The only use the floor will see is walking on, which at my weight is 2.65PSI. I think I'm good.
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That sounds like a static weight distribution. You'd be surprised how many pounds the human body exerts on a surface (and itself) while moving though you're not going to exceed your floors capacity. While running the human body exerts TONS of force upon the surface....as well as the lower legs ..... I know the hard way from research during the Marines trying to alleviate my constant stress fractures from forced runs on asphalt and concrete.
I am curious what type of laminate flooring you're using and how thick it is. We're still at a point where we can adjust floor and ceiling thickness to accomodate my height.
__________________
YouTube: HAMSkoolie WEB: HAMSkoolie.com
We've done so much, for so long, with so little, we now do the impossible, overnight, with nothing. US Marines -- 6531, 3521. . . .Ret ASE brakes & elect. Ret (auto and aviation mech). Extra Class HAM, NAUI/PADI OpenWater diver
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08-15-2021, 12:50 AM
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#12
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Jun 2021
Location: Baja often, Oregon frequently
Posts: 427
Year: 1996
Coachwork: Our hot little grubbies...
Chassis: Ford CF8000 ExpeditionVehicle
Engine: Cummins 505ci mechanical
Rated Cap: Five Heelers
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2003, we laid one-inch pink-board hard-foam insulation -- designed for wet areas such as a bathroom -- directly on the bare box floor.
On top, we laid half-inch plywood, thoroughly sealed by painting all surfaces.
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Our visible floor is bamboo plank perimeter with slate in the center.
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With nearly two decades full-time live-aboard, with two and frequently three adults plus three RedHeelers, traipsing across deserts and rough logger tracks, the pink-board shows no indication of deterioration or compression.
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Would I do it again?
Yes.
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08-15-2021, 09:00 AM
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#13
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Mini-Skoolie
Join Date: Aug 2020
Posts: 14
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We:
1) Treated rust with LDC rust converter.
2) Painted with Rustoleum enamel
3) Tore down a sheet of 3/4” ply into 2” strips and ran them the perimeter of the bus floor and roughly every 16” so they run from front to back. All were glued and screwed.
4) Put 3/4” rigid foam board in the gaps with glue.
5) 3/4” 4’x8’ ply went on top, with the long edge running from window to window (had to trim a little off the 8’ side so they’d fit). Screwed in.
We have a flat nose with the engine up front, and some of the spots around the engine compartment couldn’t be framed with furring strips, so that is just glued board and ply. The floor is definitely squishier there, so I’m glad we put down the strips for both support and a little extra security.
https://imgur.com/a/9eNpDiM
https://imgur.com/a/EClHAky
https://imgur.com/a/BVSZyv0
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