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07-12-2015, 09:01 AM
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#1
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Mini-Skoolie
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Fairmont, WV
Posts: 11
Year: 2002
Chassis: Thomas
Engine: 24v Cummings
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Tankless LP Water Heater
I'm not seeing much on recent discussions on Tankless Water Heaters...
And I curious if anyone has suggestions? some of the other threads date back several years, and I suspect newer models have been releases...
I saw this one, Girard Adjustable BTU Tankless Water Heater
Amazon.com: Customer Reviews: Girard Products 1GWHAF Tankless Water Heater.
Which is offered on several sites, but the reviews are love it or hate it... And I think some might not like it because the temp varies based on water flow, which is fine by me.
But I'm at a loss on what a solid tankless LP water heater would look like?
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07-12-2015, 03:51 PM
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#2
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Oklahoma aka "God's blind spot"
Posts: 2,447
Year: 1989
Coachwork: 1853FC International/Navistar
Chassis: 35' Retired Air Force Ambulance
Engine: DT466, MT643
Rated Cap: 6 souls and a driver
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckneerg
I'm not seeing much on recent discussions on Tankless Water Heaters...
And I curious if anyone has suggestions? some of the other threads date back several years, and I suspect newer models have been releases...
I saw this one, Girard Adjustable BTU Tankless Water Heater
Amazon.com: Customer Reviews: Girard Products 1GWHAF Tankless Water Heater.
Which is offered on several sites, but the reviews are love it or hate it... And I think some might not like it because the temp varies based on water flow, which is fine by me.
But I'm at a loss on what a solid tankless LP water heater would look like?
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3 stars from 10 reviews.... my money would keep walking
your needs may be different, but for my immediate needs...
I'm going with Eccotemp L5 (4.5 stars out of 590 reviews)
Eccotemp L5 Portable Tankless Water Heater and Outdoor Shower - Portable Hot Water Heater - Amazon.com
I can use it for temporary water heat, then retrofit it into whatever I want. You could actually plumb a T going to the sink, and going to the shower.
Always keeping in mind to vent the exhaust gases.
OR
4 Eccotemp L5's for the price of the Gerard!
__________________
I once complained I had no shoes....
Until I met a man with no feet
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07-12-2015, 04:10 PM
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#3
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Mini-Skoolie
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Fairmont, WV
Posts: 11
Year: 2002
Chassis: Thomas
Engine: 24v Cummings
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Yeah, I wasn't feeling warm and cozy about the Gerard. Plus 500 is steep. Hell, it looks like most of the indoor water heaters are steep.
Having multiple L5 might work actually... I see your point about venting the gas, since it designed for outdoor use.
As for my needs, I was hoping for one unit that can we used for the bathroom, kitchen, and port to outside shower. The latter would be an extra bonus.
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07-12-2015, 04:44 PM
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#4
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Oklahoma aka "God's blind spot"
Posts: 2,447
Year: 1989
Coachwork: 1853FC International/Navistar
Chassis: 35' Retired Air Force Ambulance
Engine: DT466, MT643
Rated Cap: 6 souls and a driver
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckneerg
Yeah, I wasn't feeling warm and cozy about the Gerard. Plus 500 is steep. Hell, it looks like most of the indoor water heaters are steep.
Having multiple L5 might work actually... I see your point about venting the gas, since it designed for outdoor use.
As for my needs, I was hoping for one unit that can we used for the bathroom, kitchen, and port to outside shower. The latter would be an extra bonus.
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my understanding is a 20 lb bbq propane tank will supply 20 hours of hot water....
shoot, sheet metal flashing and sheet metal screws from HD woyld be cheap, if you didn't have a friend in HVAC that could build a custom exhaust vent.
Be creative and keep 350+ bones in your pocket!
the L10 is higher capacity.... for $70 more
(4 stars out of 5 from 190 reviews)
http://www.amazon.com/Eccotemp-L10-C...BEV3J99Z8D091K
Quote:
81-degrees at 5.7 gallons per minute (barely warm)
108-degrees at 2.7 gallons per minute (mildly warm)
114-degrees at 2.5 gallons per minute (comfortably warm for washing dishes)
117-degrees at 2.3 gallons per minute (hot, but still comfortable to hold your hands in)
120-degrees at 2.2 gallons per minute (hot enough to be uncomfortable to hold your hand in but not nearly hot enough to burn)
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Quote:
Fabulous (affordable) On-Demand Water Heater By Amazon Customer on April 14, 2011 I have been using my L10 for about 2 months now and am very happy with both it and the Eccotemp customer service. I bought the heater to supply water for a shower and sink in a new bathroom. I didn't have capacity or space for a standard electric or gas heater -- or the money for a bigger name brand on-demand water heater. I was delighted when I found the Eccotemp L10 but nervous because I have low water pressure and live in a high wind area. (Both of these conditions were stated as possible problems for this water heater.)
This bathroom project was completely a DIY project. I am a 53 year old woman with no previous plumbing experience. I was able to install the unit myself just using the instructions provided by the company. My installation included attachment to a hard pipe instead of using the garden hose. Customer service went way above and beyond the call of duty in supporting my installation. I had a couple of problems with operation that they patiently helped me resolve. It now runs reliably from a standard barbecue size propane tank. (Turns out if the tank regulator has any internal wear or damage, it won't operate the unit properly -- even if the tank continues to operate a barbecue.)
The unit has been attached on an outside wall of the bathroom. As such, it is partially sheltered from the wind but continues to operate consistently in windy conditions. While I did have some problems adjusting the temperature of the water from the shower, they were related to a low water pressure situation. Setting the unit properly and removing the low-flow restrictions from the shower head solved those problems.
All in all, I am delighted with the unit. It was an inexpensive solution to the problem of getting hot water to a new location. Sometimes I wish I had a remote control for the unit . . . but since I didn't want to pay the big bucks for a more sophisticated solution I certainly got everything (and more) than I paid for!
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__________________
I once complained I had no shoes....
Until I met a man with no feet
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07-12-2015, 05:27 PM
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#5
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Stony Plain Alberta Canada
Posts: 2,937
Year: 1992
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: TC2000 FE
Engine: 190hp 5.9 Cummins
Rated Cap: 72
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I will always use a tanked unit over any tankless.
When you install, read and research as much as I have, you will understand.
Nat
__________________
"Don't argue with stupid people. They will just drag you down to their level, and beat you up with experience."
Patently waiting for the apocalypses to level the playing field in this physiological game of life commonly known as Civilization
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07-12-2015, 05:55 PM
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#6
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 8,462
Year: 1946
Coachwork: Chevrolet/Wayne
Chassis: 1- 1/2 ton
Engine: Cummins 4BT
Rated Cap: 15
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Biggest issue with tankless (regardless of brand) seems to be that the burner won't come on at low flow so you wind up wasting a lot of water. Which, in most cases, is more precious than propane.
I'm still on the fence unless there is some newer and better tech that addresses that issue.
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07-13-2015, 01:38 AM
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#7
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Salt Lake City Utah
Posts: 1,635
Year: 2000
Chassis: Blue Bird
Engine: ISC 8.3
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I like the Rinnai brand tankless heater I've been using in my home for the past 7 years quite a lot. It has performed very well despite my failing to flush it as often as perhaps I should. The water is quite hard here and we do have a softener, but even so I feel like it deserves more maintenance than it gets.
It's priced in a different league from those seen on Amazon etc. It was US$750 or so, plus the water valve and ventilation kits. Mine is natural gas fired but they're also available configured for LP. It regulates temperature quite well, to the point that it can automatically adjust both the flame and the water flow so that the shower temperature stays steady.
As Tango says, even this class of heater has a minimum flow requirement (1/2 GPM I think) to fire the burner. It just doesn't make sense to engineer the thing so that it can vary the flame anywhere from a cigarette lighter up to 200k BTU.
I don't know whether there's much to be had between this class of heater (and this Rinnai is by no means the fanciest) and the Ecco Temp. Honestly I don't think one could drive a full-featured unit much lower on the cost without build/reliability problems -- better to start dropping features, as Ecco Temp has done.
A tankless heater isn't right for every use case, but it can be a great fit for some cases. Tanks have their place too, and for many applications either kind may be suitable.
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07-13-2015, 10:05 AM
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#8
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 8,462
Year: 1946
Coachwork: Chevrolet/Wayne
Chassis: 1- 1/2 ton
Engine: Cummins 4BT
Rated Cap: 15
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To be clear...I'm not at all down on tankless. I installed a big Bosch unit about 15 years ago at the last house I owned and it was fantastic. I could take three hour showers and never run out of hot water. It's just that the smaller units all have the low flow issue that uses up an awful lot of precious water. Water that is even MORE precious when you are limited to what you can carry.
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07-13-2015, 12:35 PM
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#9
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Gonvick MN
Posts: 339
Year: 1975
Chassis: Gillig
Engine: Cat 3208t/10 speed transmission
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We have been using a cheepo Chinese thankless heater in our bus since 07. No problems. I just hung it on the wall. No venting. It is a little fussy about water flow but you can get used to it.
Endless hot water (till the tank goes dry). It doesn't seem to use too much propane.
__________________
Remove hence to yonder place....
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07-14-2015, 10:10 PM
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#10
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Mini-Skoolie
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Fairmont, WV
Posts: 11
Year: 2002
Chassis: Thomas
Engine: 24v Cummings
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Great input guys! Lots of good ideas.
Milkmania, I really like your idea with the L10 and having just building a custom vent. Surely, something I could do, and like you said, it does save me some coin. Leaning towards this path, thanks!
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07-14-2015, 10:39 PM
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#11
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Mini-Skoolie
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Montana
Posts: 65
Year: 1990
Coachwork: happy camper RV repair
Chassis: international
Engine: 360 international
Rated Cap: 66 passenger
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I bought three girard water heaters and installed them in customer RV , they are Chinese junk. Not a single one made it more than 3 months with out work having to be done. This chinese junk cost more to fix that to replace . They are not worth the money
__________________
rvingoffgrid.com
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07-15-2015, 10:18 AM
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#12
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: So Cal
Posts: 3,245
Year: 1935
Coachwork: Superior
Chassis: Chevy
Engine: 317 ci/tid / Isuzu
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I am using an Ecotemp L5 in my bus. I did have to go with the mfg's recommended pump to get the flow and pressure requirements met (google mfg for specifics--its just a standard low cost pump but I can't recall which at the moment). I also installed a water recirculating circuit which allows for truly "instant" hot water without any waste. The unit is in a sealed steel compartment inside the bus and gets it's air from below the floor and exhausts out of what was formerly a back window. The exhaust is very hot so it is important to have proper insulation and adequate air flow. It did take a little monkeying with the settings to get everything working, but once I did that the thing is great.
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07-15-2015, 11:48 PM
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#13
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Almost There
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: South Carolina, but headed back to Michigan
Posts: 84
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International
Engine: DT360
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nat_ster
I will always use a tanked unit over any tankless.
When you install, read and research as much as I have, you will understand.
Nat
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Nat,
Might you enlighten us a little? I am closing in on decisions for hot water and would be curious to hear why a tanked unit may be preferable in a bus.
After reading through your build thread, I think I will hold value to your word.
Thanks,
__________________
-Travis
1991 International. DT360. Spicer 5-speed manual transmission. Work in progress; spray foam, wood stove, etc...
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07-16-2015, 01:46 AM
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#14
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: NUNYA
Posts: 4,236
Year: 1995
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: 3800
Engine: DT408, AT545
Rated Cap: 23 500 gvw
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Quote:
1991 International. DT 466. Spicer 5-speed manual transmission. 1,022,XXX miles. Purchased July 2015. Work in progress.
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Is the mileage really over 1 million? Amazing.
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07-16-2015, 08:47 AM
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#15
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Mini-Skoolie
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Littlefun, CO
Posts: 49
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DT466
Rated Cap: 66
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I'm glad to read all the feedback on current installs and performance.
Not to hijack ii, but how bout electric tankless?
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07-16-2015, 09:03 AM
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#16
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario
Posts: 1,796
Year: 1997
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: B3800 Short bus
Engine: T444E
Rated Cap: 36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ol trunt
I also installed a water recirculating circuit which allows for truly "instant" hot water without any waste.
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As did I. I haven't had a chance to try it yet, but as you mentioned it should allow for instant hot water. The recirculating circuit could also be opened to allow more flow when the tap is only opened slightly, eliminating the low-flow issue (though with a bit of monkeying around).
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07-16-2015, 11:52 AM
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#17
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Skoolie
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Alvin, TX
Posts: 122
Year: 1996
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Safe-T Liner MVP
Engine: 12V Cummins
Rated Cap: 75
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Tankless LP Water Heater
I've enjoyed mine - but it's been used "hooked up"... Never with onboard water~
__________________
1996
Thomas
Safety Liner MVP
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07-16-2015, 12:58 PM
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#18
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Salt Lake City Utah
Posts: 1,635
Year: 2000
Chassis: Blue Bird
Engine: ISC 8.3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Destroymix
I'm glad to read all the feedback on current installs and performance.
Not to hijack ii, but how bout electric tankless?
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Electric tankless "could work" -- depending on the flow and temperature rise expectation and the power hookup. Suppose you want a shower in the summer time. With daily temperatures ranging 65-95 F the fresh water tank temperature might be around 75 F, but the water from the hookups in the campground will be around 50 F. Suppose you're willing to take cool showers at 95 F and that you can get by with just 1.5 gallons per minute. You'd be looking for a heater that can provide a 45 F temperature rise at 1.5 GPM.
Mostly by dumb luck on the Home Depot web site the first thing I clicked was a Rheem 13 kW heater that met those parameters almost exactly.
For this usage it's a simple question of "will I have 13 kW available when I want hot water?" That's 13000/240 = about 55 amps. (the product web page recommends a 60 amp breaker) There surely will be some among us who could make that work but probably most will say "mmmm, I'm going to have to use gas or liquid fuel to get that much energy."
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07-16-2015, 02:12 PM
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#19
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Stony Plain Alberta Canada
Posts: 2,937
Year: 1992
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: TC2000 FE
Engine: 190hp 5.9 Cummins
Rated Cap: 72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ii_amnt
Nat,
Might you enlighten us a little? I am closing in on decisions for hot water and would be curious to hear why a tanked unit may be preferable in a bus.
After reading through your build thread, I think I will hold value to your word.
Thanks,
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I'm at work right now, but will answer this in full detail later.
Nat
__________________
"Don't argue with stupid people. They will just drag you down to their level, and beat you up with experience."
Patently waiting for the apocalypses to level the playing field in this physiological game of life commonly known as Civilization
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07-16-2015, 05:32 PM
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#20
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Almost There
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: South Carolina, but headed back to Michigan
Posts: 84
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International
Engine: DT360
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crazycal
Is the mileage really over 1 million? Amazing.
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I was weary, but all seems well and was fully serviced and inspected by the local diesel mechanic. He had several DT 466 engines in his yard that made it over the million mile mark. I have learned from working with older Mercedes diesels that mileage is not something to be afraid of, but the quality and consistency of maintenance cane be the real deciding factor. Sometimes, the fact that it made it that far can be a testament to the maintenance history.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Destroymix
I'm glad to read all the feedback on current installs and performance.
Not to hijack ii, but how bout electric tankless?
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I would be curious to hear from those that have one that can do propane or electric. Electric when shored up and propane for when off-grid would be interesting.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nat_ster
I'm at work right now, but will answer this in full detail later.
Nat
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Looking forward to it!
__________________
-Travis
1991 International. DT360. Spicer 5-speed manual transmission. Work in progress; spray foam, wood stove, etc...
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