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Old 10-24-2021, 08:24 PM   #101
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Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Bly Oregon
Posts: 285
Year: 1986
Coachwork: Crown
Chassis: Supercoach
Engine: Cummins 350 big cam
Rated Cap: 86 passengers?
My template for the unistrut in the Crown

Since the weather is pretty crappy outside (lots of much needed rain) I am inside. I am taking that time to document more of my design. I am sharing some of the design, both to help others and maybe get constructive input about what I am doing.


First is a drawing of my template for mounting the Unistrut at the top of the sides of the Crown. I took the template and traced the outline on a page of my notebook. Additionally I documented how it is used. I made this one out of aluminum.


While I used Unistrut to frame everything in my Crowns, someone else could easily use wood in a similar way.
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File Type: jpg crown template.jpg (235.2 KB, 9 views)

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Old 10-24-2021, 08:58 PM   #102
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Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Bly Oregon
Posts: 285
Year: 1986
Coachwork: Crown
Chassis: Supercoach
Engine: Cummins 350 big cam
Rated Cap: 86 passengers?
I finally documented my wiring plan for the Crown. I ended up getting some different breakers to accommodate this but that is minor. I ended up with the right number of circuits. I have one plan for the AC wiring and another for the DC wiring. This post documents the AC wiring plan.


In the drawing of the electrical panel plan, there are two sets of mechanically linked breakers. The upper set provides for switching between outside (shore) power or internal generator power, while the lower set provides for switching between the power supplied from the upper set, or from the 3000 watt sine wave inverter.


There are four circuits that only have power when power is supplied from outside or internal generator. The lower circuits have power from any of the three sources (outside, generator or inverter).


I modified an siemans panel by physically attaching two smaller breaker assemblies together in one box. One could take a larger box and electrically isolate an upper and lower half by cutting the two bus bars inside.


The circuits that only get power from outside or generator are:
Washing machine - I don't plan on doing laundry while going down the road.

Clothes Dryer - see above

RV charger - We don't want the batteries supplying power to charge batteries.

Engine heater - I takes 1200 - 1500 watts and would need to run for an hour or more to be effective. That is a lot to pull from batteries.
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File Type: jpg crown electrical panel.jpg (213.1 KB, 3 views)
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Old 10-24-2021, 09:18 PM   #103
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Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Bly Oregon
Posts: 285
Year: 1986
Coachwork: Crown
Chassis: Supercoach
Engine: Cummins 350 big cam
Rated Cap: 86 passengers?
Crown Bus - AC wiring plan

The next drawing shows all the AC circuits I plan to install in the Crown. The physical placement of the circuits is related to how they show in the drawing. Basically I planned the electrical as left or right side of the bus, and circuits by room. One circuit does not go into a room but underfloor to the engine heater. When you have a diesel without glow plugs, you NEED the engine heater.


The current rating of each circuit is based on the expected usage on that circuit. For instance in the kitchen, the outlet on the left side will supply power to a 1000 watt microwave. On the right side of the kitchen, the outlet will see little use. On the left side of the front room, the outlet will supply power to a laptop or cellphone charger, while on the right side of the front room, that circuit provides power to a 55" TV and a large stereo system at the same time.


All of the wiring is above the floor, with the electrical panel to the rear of the water closet, in the hallway. Any wiring going to the left side of the bus is carried overhead in Unistrut channels. I am not sharing water lines and electrical wiring in the same channel. Some of the DC wiring will share a channel with AC wiring, as practiced used in military aircraft.
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Old 10-24-2021, 09:20 PM   #104
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Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Bly Oregon
Posts: 285
Year: 1986
Coachwork: Crown
Chassis: Supercoach
Engine: Cummins 350 big cam
Rated Cap: 86 passengers?
The picture did not post so here it is
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File Type: jpg crown ac wiring plan.jpg (225.3 KB, 5 views)
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Old 10-27-2021, 06:57 AM   #105
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Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Bly Oregon
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Year: 1986
Coachwork: Crown
Chassis: Supercoach
Engine: Cummins 350 big cam
Rated Cap: 86 passengers?
A small correction: The engine heater circuit will go through the floor to reach the heater on the side of the engine block. The positive cable to the battery bank will also go through the floor to the trunk.
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Old 11-14-2021, 05:03 AM   #106
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Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Bly Oregon
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Year: 1986
Coachwork: Crown
Chassis: Supercoach
Engine: Cummins 350 big cam
Rated Cap: 86 passengers?
Time for another update to my conversion:


I completed the hold down clamps for the refrigerator. The refrigerator sets on two edge supports that keep the rollers and levelers on the bottom of the fridge just off the floor. At the top of the fridge are two clamps that hold the fridge in place so it doesn't move around when making turns and stops, etc. Later an additional piece of steel will be attached over the front of the fridge to construct a small cabinet for storage.


The main inverter and secondary inverter are mounted but not yet connected.



The posted picture of the main inverter was taken before welding the mounting bars to the Unistrut.


I have installed two runs of the main DC buss, going from the second alternator to the secondary inverter, and from the second alternator to where the terminal block will be installed behind the main inverter. Both runs pass through the floor above the engine and adjacent to the front of the fresh water tank. They are secured to the Unistrut framework around the fridge, where the secondary inverter run passes up to the inverter mounted adjacent to the fridge, while the run from the alternator to terminal block passes along the side of the bus, secured to the steel body framework of the bus to just past the water closet where the terminal block will go.



The terminal block will have three terminals interconnected with a bus bar. Since I will have five connections in one place, this approach has only two connections to any terminal on the block.


I don't like having 3 or 4 connections on one terminal as that could lead to loosening connections from vibration, and probable increased resistance. As there will be un-fused substantial current flow possible at these terminals the terminal block will be installed inside of a plastic enclosure.



I have completed installation of the drain plumbing for the washing machine and connected it to the main drain pipe. The run of drain plumbing for the washing machine includes a check valve type vent. The drain connection for the washing machine has since been secured to the Unistrut with an exhaust pipe clamp.



I have installed the drain plumbing for the shower and connected it to the main drain pipe also. I still need to fabricate the securing bracket for the shower drain at the trap area.


I have been installing some of the propane plumbing in and under the bus. I have one length of pipe to install under the floor that completes the underfloor portion. I will post some pictures of the underfloor drain and propane plumbing possibly tomorrow to hopefully make all of my narrative clearer. I was laying under the bus this evening and realized how busy it is under the bus. (kind of reminds me of the inside of the wheel wells of a B52) I can tell you there is no extra room under the Crown where the bus batteries are. I have been squeezing myself in there to install the propane plumbing. But with one piece to go under the floor I can tolerate a little more time under there. My approach is to have secure mounting of the whole of the propane system so that none of the connections will get loose and leak.


My first AC circuit to install will be for the engine heater. The floor pass through is with the other (now six total) pass through connections:


1) Generator power to electrical panel.
2) Remote control/monitoring wiring for the generator.
3) Outside (shore) power to the electrical panel.
4) Propane plumbing sourced at the regulator connected to the underfloor tank.
5) The AC circuit connecting to the engine heater.
6) The drain plumbing for the washing machine.


This will get an updated picture when I finish the heater circuit.
A lot of things pass through in a smallish area but all of this will be behind the wall when all is done.


Next in the schedule is de-installing the range to finish the propane plumbing run and install DC wiring and thermostat wiring for the furnace. Once that task is completed I can have heat in the bus.


I will be installing some more lengths of Unistrut and conduit to provide a path for more AC wiring.


It appears that some of the "wiring trays" I create will have some AC and DC wiring alongside each other, But looking at the my power panel from a C2 military aircraft, I realize it has both 115 VAC and 28 VDC wiring in one cable of wiring, so I think that will be safe to do. What will be important for the adjacent circuits is that the AC and DC wiring needs to be distinctly different so that one never gets confused between the two.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg main inverter.jpg (199.1 KB, 5 views)
File Type: jpg washing machine plumbing.jpg (156.0 KB, 7 views)
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Old 11-14-2021, 05:14 AM   #107
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Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Bly Oregon
Posts: 285
Year: 1986
Coachwork: Crown
Chassis: Supercoach
Engine: Cummins 350 big cam
Rated Cap: 86 passengers?
Some additional pictures of the washing machine plumbing:






The conduit for the engine heater circuit is between the propane pipe and the washing machine drain pipe. (not in picture)
Attached Images
File Type: jpg DSC_7316.jpg (187.0 KB, 5 views)
File Type: jpg DSC_7315.jpg (217.5 KB, 6 views)
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Old 11-18-2021, 01:36 PM   #108
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Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Bly Oregon
Posts: 285
Year: 1986
Coachwork: Crown
Chassis: Supercoach
Engine: Cummins 350 big cam
Rated Cap: 86 passengers?
This posting documents my fresh water system in the bus. It is not completed yet but I am posting what it will be. It will be simple to operate. When connected to outside (shore) water all of the sinks, shower, toilet work like home. When you need to fill up the fresh water tank just opening one ball valve fills it. A second ball valve allow the system to be drained. The check valve is redundant since the pump has a check valve.


When dry camping, just turning on the pump is required to make the system work.


I am using two colors of PEX, red for hot, blue for cold.


I am using metal "forms" to make 90 degree bends in the PEX for the sinks. I already used shark bite 90 degree fittings for the shower but I may re-work those connections using the "forms". Less connections is better. I have lots of extra PEX anyways. The outlet from the drain valve will be the only part of the system going through the floor and that only has water in it when draining the system.


The runs of PEX are being mounted to the Unistrut to support them.



All of the plumbing is in one area of the bus. The runs of PEX for the shower cross overhead in Unistrut. I am keeping the plumbing inside of insulated space to avoid frozen pipes. (lesson learned in the "old Crown")


When filling the tank, one does have to keep an eye on it, but being the tank is translucent you can tell how full it is.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg water system plan - Crown bus.jpg (277.8 KB, 7 views)
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Old 11-18-2021, 03:20 PM   #109
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Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Bly Oregon
Posts: 285
Year: 1986
Coachwork: Crown
Chassis: Supercoach
Engine: Cummins 350 big cam
Rated Cap: 86 passengers?
This post documents the main DC buss in the "new Crown". I am trying to use the kiss principal in my designs.


The main DC buss has to take input power from four different sources:


1) The second alternator mounted to the engine (already installed). (up to 250 amps)
2) The solar Array on the roof (not installed). (up to about 70 amps)
3) The RV charger. (already installed) (up to 65 amps)
4) The batteries. (not installed) (up to 300 amps?)

The DC system will provide power to three loads:

1) An array of DC circuit breakers to feed lighting, heating.
2) The batteries for charging.
3) Two inverters.

To do this, I am using 2/0 gauge cable salvaged from the parts Crown battery cables. I ended up with two sets of battery cables 11 feet long for a total of 44 feet.

The highest expected current draw is when running air conditioning from the inverter, along with the refrigerator. (about 200 - 220 amps) Since the current flow required to do this would drain batteries fast I would only use the air when driving.

When driving most of the current is from the alternator. When parked most of the power is from the batteries and/or solar (in daylight). To make this work and not have two many connections at a single point, a terminal bus is the way I am doing it. It will be fabricated from machinable plastic and bolts and nuts and a buss bar made from two layers of flattened copper tubing.

The terminal block will be enclosed in a 6" x 6" plastic enclosure. The terminal block will be installed adjacent to the primary inverter since that is the largest load (and there is space there).

The 2/0 gauge cable is mostly run along the inside of the side of the bus, and attached with clamps. The forward run goes from the alternator, through the floor, along the side to the terminal block. The rearward run goes from the terminal block along the wall through the floor near the rear of the bus into the trunk, where the batteries will be.

Additional runs connect the RV charger, the solar charge controller, and main feed to the DC circuit breaker panel to the terminal block.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Main DC Buss Crown bus.jpg (258.4 KB, 7 views)
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Old 11-20-2021, 01:02 AM   #110
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Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Bly Oregon
Posts: 285
Year: 1986
Coachwork: Crown
Chassis: Supercoach
Engine: Cummins 350 big cam
Rated Cap: 86 passengers?
Today I got close to a milestone in the conversion of the "new Crown". With the exception of two additional mounts and connecting the primary furnace to the gas line, I am basically done installing the propane plumbing in the bus. I was able to complete installing all of the gas line under the bus and continue with the portion that serves the left side of the bus (primary furnace and gas range).


Attached are some pictures of it:


The first image shows the plumbing behind the gas range. The second image show the plumbing coming up through the floor, going to the left side wall of the bus. The run is secured in two places. In the third image, the portion that supplies gas to the range is visible, as well as the clamp securing the line where it tees off to feed the range. The line continues forward and makes a 90 degree turn inboard in the bus. That portion can be seen in the first image. The last portion will be secured two places, similar to the mounts securing the first part of the run after it comes through the floor. The second image also show the gas shutoff valve. All appliances have a shutoff for safety. The range and furnace share a shutoff as access to the line supplying the furnace is difficult to reach. I will try to get some more images of the propane plumbing underneath the bus to share.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg gas plumbing 1.jpg (114.8 KB, 8 views)
File Type: jpg gas plumbing 2.jpg (188.0 KB, 9 views)
File Type: jpg gas plumbing 3.jpg (145.7 KB, 8 views)
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Old 11-23-2021, 04:32 AM   #111
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Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Bly Oregon
Posts: 285
Year: 1986
Coachwork: Crown
Chassis: Supercoach
Engine: Cummins 350 big cam
Rated Cap: 86 passengers?
Today I finished mounting the propane plumbing above the floor on the left side of the bus. This plumbing supplies gas to the gas range and the furnace. To complete this portion of the plumbing required the de-installation of the gas range, the countertop and cabinetry on the left side of the kitchen. I installed the last section of black steel pipe and installed the mounting clamps between the pipe and the pieces of Unistrut. While clamped to the pipe I welded the mounts to the Unistrut, thus securing the pipe in place. I also added another short piece of strut above the existing clamp on the run supplying gas to the range. This was done to meet a requirement of the NFP 1192 specification of requiring supporting mounts within 6 inches of the end of a run.


Reading up on NFP 1192 I found that the spec doesn't allow for running gas plumbing inside walls or partitions. I have a short run of pipe that will be inside a wall for the water closet. My understanding is that this is to prevent an undetected buildup of gas inside of a wall that could lead to an explosion. My approach is to leave an escape route for any leaking gas so that it would be detectable and not contained.



I encourage a response from other skoolie folks regarding their opinion about this.



I will also comply with the requirements to support the plumbing at 4 foot intervals, and of course use the yellow tape at all connections. There are no left/right couplings or elbows used.


I still have one more mount underfloor to install to comply the the support each 4 feet of the pipe requirement.



A picture of the plumbing run in question is attached. The pipe on the right is the propane run. The other three are conduit for wiring. The space behind the strut on the right side of the picture will remain open. Since this picture was taken a run of drain plumbing and a run of conduit has been added to the right of the pipe. Note: this picture is taken looking at the right side of the bus inside the water closet.



Attached is pictures of my work today.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg furnace propane1.jpg (233.4 KB, 4 views)
File Type: jpg furnace propane 3.jpg (242.3 KB, 4 views)
File Type: jpg furnace propane 4.jpg (183.7 KB, 3 views)
File Type: jpg Resized_20210619_210930_9698.jpg (261.7 KB, 4 views)
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Old 11-23-2021, 04:52 PM   #112
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Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: Long Beach, CA
Posts: 574
Year: 1998
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: TC1000, 40' MPV
Engine: 5.9 Cummins/B300 trans
Rated Cap: U/K
Quote:
Originally Posted by flattracker View Post
Today I finished mounting the propane plumbing above the floor on the left side of the bus. This plumbing supplies gas to the gas range and the furnace. To complete this portion of the plumbing required the de-installation of the gas range, the countertop and cabinetry on the left side of the kitchen. I installed the last section of black steel pipe and installed the mounting clamps between the pipe and the pieces of Unistrut. While clamped to the pipe I welded the mounts to the Unistrut, thus securing the pipe in place. I also added another short piece of strut above the existing clamp on the run supplying gas to the range. This was done to meet a requirement of the NFP 1192 specification of requiring supporting mounts within 6 inches of the end of a run.


Reading up on NFP 1192 I found that the spec doesn't allow for running gas plumbing inside walls or partitions. I have a short run of pipe that will be inside a wall for the water closet. My understanding is that this is to prevent an undetected buildup of gas inside of a wall that could lead to an explosion. My approach is to leave an escape route for any leaking gas so that it would be detectable and not contained.



I encourage a response from other skoolie folks regarding their opinion about this.



I will also comply with the requirements to support the plumbing at 4 foot intervals, and of course use the yellow tape at all connections. There are no left/right couplings or elbows used.


I still have one more mount underfloor to install to comply the the support each 4 feet of the pipe requirement.



A picture of the plumbing run in question is attached. The pipe on the right is the propane run. The other three are conduit for wiring. The space behind the strut on the right side of the picture will remain open. Since this picture was taken a run of drain plumbing and a run of conduit has been added to the right of the pipe. Note: this picture is taken looking at the right side of the bus inside the water closet.



Attached is pictures of my work today.

You're doing a really nice job, those gas lines are great. If you swap out those conduit fittings for "LL" you would have the cover plate accessible. Hold the fitting like a gun "LL" is left "LB" is back (what you're using) and "LR" is right. That'll make your life a little easier in the future.
Carry on, sorry to interrupt
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