Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 12-09-2017, 10:28 PM   #21
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Owasso, OK
Posts: 2,627
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Saf-T-Liner MVP ER
Engine: Cummins 6CTA8.3 Mechanical MD3060
Rated Cap: 46 Coach Seats, 40 foot
Quote:
Originally Posted by plfking View Post
Glad you made it back with no issues.......I know it was a big relief to get home unscathed with mine. For 8 hours I kept thinking "Should have signed on with Good Sam before undertaking this folly."


Don
Ha! ... I thought the same when I pulled over to the side of a road leaving a small town in Kansas, There was a horrible vibration from the front end and I thought a wheel bearing had given up. I jumped out wondering if Good Sam took on the spot memberships.

It turned out that I had run over some particularly nasty rumble strips at the edge of the road, but for a minute there I was regretting the entire adventure

__________________
Steve Bracken

Build Thread
Twigg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2017, 10:41 PM   #22
Bus Geek
 
Robin97396's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Willamina, Oregon
Posts: 6,409
Coachwork: 97 Bluebird TC1000 5.9
Yeah, you'll get that feeling wishing you didn't have the bus occasionally. That usually passes.
__________________
Robin
Nobody's Business
Robin97396 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2017, 10:13 AM   #23
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 17,547
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tango View Post
Hey Christopher --- sounds like you are pretty much spot on. The "sweet spot" referred to is valid when on level ground at highway speed. Hit a hill and yes, gonna have to downshift to avoid lugging. The spot on my 4 banger is 1800 and that is what I geared and tired it for at 63-65. I am confident it will run higher but hoping to get max mpg's and service life by staying within the numbers.

Cannot comment on adjusting the trans but with your skill you can probably optimize it with precision. Me?...with an all mech engine and cable shifter, I'll just have to listen try to shift accordingly.

BTW...have you been monitoring your MPG's? How are they looking?
your trans is very much electronic and adjustable, the shift points can be adjusted to respond more or less actively to your go-pedal position. the mechanical shifter is just used to select a range. so if at spme point in a trip you know you are going up and down a bunch of hills where you always need 5th or even 4th to cfrest.. theres no reason to have it keep going back to 6th for 5 seconds just so you can stomp it back down to 4th.. so in my case when I get in any hills I go to a range with 5th being the max.. I can pull my shifter handle from (D) to D(4) and disable all overdrive if im going up and down steep stuff..

your pedal position is ultimately like an instantaneous range shifter.. typically you set that up so if you have it floored then its going to shift flat out at close to your self determined engine redline.. personal preference.. with the ratios of my gears, my engine peaks at 2300 (Horsepower).. but the turbo spools up alot till about 2550 - 2600. redline is 2800 unloaded. I shift flat-out-floored at close to that 2600.. when I hit the next gear im right in the middle of the power band and the turbo is spooled so the amount of 'Go' is good.. obviously if I punch it im looking for 'GO' not economy..

when im at 75-99% throttle I tend to favor the lower gears as im still looking for a decent amount of go. but I wont shift at near redlines.. the thought is that at those throttle positions im either still trying to accelerate or on a bit of an incline sp keep my gear lower longer and be more responsive at downshifting..

its a progression. I dont have the bus out today (school busses like the garage better when its snowy), or id post a pic of the shift graph for one of mny gears.. its a perogressive curve.. and a work in progress.. I still drive around and think "man I wish it would shift a little sooner.." so I make the change.

at lower throttle positions I try to get into the higher gears quickly and keep my RPMS in those ranges we talked for best torque.. It will run at very light throttles in that 1000-1200 RPM range. but any push on the go pedal at all and im going to pull it down..

with yours, your allison guy will have put a base program on it based on the specs you gave them.. and simply you'll just have to drive the bus around in various situations and either his base program works for you, or you need to have it tweaked.. you wont know till you take it oput and drive it.. and that first shakedown drive or two it will shift like Crap.. im sure you watched my video of my first shakedown after trans installation.. it was flaring, bucking, sensors were reading wierd.. but after an hour or two in and the next day it had gotten 200% better..

my economy at 65 MPH has gone from 8-10 to solid 11-13. with the current trans.. drive it at 60 and it sees 12-14..

-Christopher
cadillackid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2017, 11:14 AM   #24
Bus Geek
 
Tango's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 8,462
Year: 1946
Coachwork: Chevrolet/Wayne
Chassis: 1- 1/2 ton
Engine: Cummins 4BT
Rated Cap: 15
Good to know that it can be tuned. Thanks. And that is excellent mileage for a Skoolie. Especially knowing that you are a hot rodder. Sounds like a pretty sweet combination of power and mpg's. Good argument for dialing in that tranny.
Tango is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2017, 11:22 AM   #25
Bus Nut
 
golfersmurf57's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 386
Most Speedos have a tone ring and a pickup either near the output shaft on the granny. Add on Speedos usually provide a magnet ring attached around the driveline along with a frame mounted pickup. The tone wheel creates a modulated a.c. signal which the Speedo.translates to speed. Also true for the then magnetic sensors. Usually the. Speedo unit isn't the issue in check your wires first. Mitchell or all data can give you a test for the sender. Most of the temp and pressure gauges have a plus , minus or grnd. , and an S terminal or snd. Verify pos and grnd then grnd the snd terminal. The gauge should swing full or zero from its key on not running position. If it doesn't replace the gauge. Once confirmed gauge works take the wire of the sender on the component and repeat the test. If it moves the gauge install a new sender and it should work. No movement means the wire is broken between gauge and sender.
This concludes gauge diagnosis 101.


Sent from my LGL64VL using Tapatalk
golfersmurf57 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2017, 11:47 AM   #26
Bus Geek
 
Robin97396's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Willamina, Oregon
Posts: 6,409
Coachwork: 97 Bluebird TC1000 5.9
Hey golfersmurf, any chance you'd be willing to flesh out your profile?

There's getting to be so many people on here that don't seem to have a location. Living in the cloud.
__________________
Robin
Nobody's Business
Robin97396 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2017, 02:44 PM   #27
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Owasso, OK
Posts: 2,627
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Saf-T-Liner MVP ER
Engine: Cummins 6CTA8.3 Mechanical MD3060
Rated Cap: 46 Coach Seats, 40 foot
Back to Thomas

The rear axle is driving me nuts.

It's a Spicer J-230, but has zero in the way of identifying plates, marks, tabs ... anything. So I have no idea of the ratio.

The reason I was looking is that I was a bit concerned about the revs at sensible cruising speeds. I want to calculate what they should be, as opposed to what the tachometer is telling me.

My concern is that the MD3060 might not be selecting 5th gear. I guess I can test that on the highway by selecting maximum gear as 4th, driving up to, say, 50 mph, then allowing it to go to 5th and see if it upshifts.

In other news, both the oil and coolant were low. Oil pressure and coolant temperature were fine on the way home, fairly steady at 70 psi and 195F respectively.

I think a Scangauge D is in my future as it should give accurate numbers. With those, and knowing the tire height and gear ratio I can work out the FD ratio.

ps ... Tire Height of an 11R22.5 is 41.4", right?
__________________
Steve Bracken

Build Thread
Twigg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2017, 02:57 PM   #28
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 17,547
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
what does your tach read when its in standard alread-warmed-up idle? id expect 700 or so.. so if it is reading 1200 or such and it doesnt sound that fast then suspect the tach.

you can test each of your shifts.. take it al the way down to 1. then manually up arrrow to the next shioft and wait till you feel it. when going to 2nd you may feel an extra "shift".. the trans goes to 2 unlocked then locks once in 2 and stays locked all through 5th... that 2 unlocked to 2 locked feels like a "shift" to seem people.. keep that in mind when counting shifts..
-Christopher
cadillackid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2017, 03:37 PM   #29
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Owasso, OK
Posts: 2,627
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Saf-T-Liner MVP ER
Engine: Cummins 6CTA8.3 Mechanical MD3060
Rated Cap: 46 Coach Seats, 40 foot
Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillackid View Post
what does your tach read when its in standard alread-warmed-up idle? id expect 700 or so.. so if it is reading 1200 or such and it doesnt sound that fast then suspect the tach.

you can test each of your shifts.. take it al the way down to 1. then manually up arrrow to the next shioft and wait till you feel it. when going to 2nd you may feel an extra "shift".. the trans goes to 2 unlocked then locks once in 2 and stays locked all through 5th... that 2 unlocked to 2 locked feels like a "shift" to seem people.. keep that in mind when counting shifts..
-Christopher
So ... Just ran it 20 miles and it's nice and warm.

Idle ... Just over 900 rpm
High Idle ... 1200 rpm

Indicated RPM:

50 mph ... 2300 rpm
55 mph ... 2600 rpm
60 mph ... 2725 rpm

It is shifting smoothly into 5th. At 40 mph, selecting 4th shifts down and re-selecting 5th shifts up

Speeds from GPS, but the speedo pretty much agreed.

Beginning to sound like a great candidate for unlocking 6th gear.
__________________
Steve Bracken

Build Thread
Twigg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2017, 03:54 PM   #30
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Owasso, OK
Posts: 2,627
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Saf-T-Liner MVP ER
Engine: Cummins 6CTA8.3 Mechanical MD3060
Rated Cap: 46 Coach Seats, 40 foot
It's looking like an FD Ratio of 7.17
__________________
Steve Bracken

Build Thread
Twigg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2017, 05:18 PM   #31
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Owasso, OK
Posts: 2,627
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Saf-T-Liner MVP ER
Engine: Cummins 6CTA8.3 Mechanical MD3060
Rated Cap: 46 Coach Seats, 40 foot
I know how high that sounds, but with the MD3060 and 6th gear, 7.17 is not so bad.

Perfect would be 6.14, considerably higher than folk are used to with other gearboxes.

I also think that 7.17, if that is what it turns out to be, would pretty much guarantee permission to unlock 6th.
__________________
Steve Bracken

Build Thread
Twigg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2017, 06:06 PM   #32
Bus Crazy
 
M1031A1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Dowdy Lakes, Colorado
Posts: 1,444
Year: 1989
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Saf-T-Liner ER
Engine: 3208 CAT/MT643 tranny
Rated Cap: 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by Twigg View Post
I know how high that sounds, but with the MD3060 and 6th gear, 7.17 is not so bad.

Perfect would be 6.14, considerably higher than folk are used to with other gearboxes.

I also think that 7.17, if that is what it turns out to be, would pretty much guarantee permission to unlock 6th.
Twigg,

After some digging, I came up with a possible rear end manufacturer for your Thomas: Meritor. However, their website says they make single axle rear ends that only go to 6.50, not 7.17:
https://www.meritor.com/productsands...ngleaxles.aspx I dug a bit further - On the Carolina Thomas website they show Meritor 7.17 geared axles here: https://www.carolinathomas.com/2014/...71-axle-ratio/ . So I'm not sure, but I have a suspicion since converting my Eaton axle from 5.29 to 4.10 that your particular model may not be in production anymore, just like mine...

So, you might want to do some more digging, but that's what I've come up with so far.....

M
__________________
Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the American people’s liberty teeth and keystone under independence. — George Washington
M1031A1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2017, 06:14 PM   #33
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Owasso, OK
Posts: 2,627
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Saf-T-Liner MVP ER
Engine: Cummins 6CTA8.3 Mechanical MD3060
Rated Cap: 46 Coach Seats, 40 foot
Quote:
Originally Posted by M1031A1 View Post
Twigg,

After some digging, I came up with a possible rear end manufacturer for your Thomas: Meritor. However, their website says they make single axle rear ends that only go to 6.50, not 7.17:
https://www.meritor.com/productsands...ngleaxles.aspx I dug a bit further - On the Carolina Thomas website they show Meritor 7.17 geared axles here: https://www.carolinathomas.com/2014/...71-axle-ratio/ . So I'm not sure, but I have a suspicion since converting my Eaton axle from 5.29 to 4.10 that your particular model may not be in production anymore, just like mine...

So, you might want to do some more digging, but that's what I've come up with so far.....

M
So the data plate says "Dana J-230"

That's a Spicer rear axle and they offer 7.17. Another guy I know has almost the same bus with the same axle, and 6.14 ratio. He has 6th unlocked.

If the RPMs are reading 200 over, and the tire height is correct, I have a 7.17 FD Ratio ... none of the other ratios come even close to the numbers I'm seeing.

I just ordered a Scangauge D, so in a few days I'll have more accurate numbers, but I suspect I'm getting closer.

6.14 and 6th would give me great acceleration in towns, and good low revs on the highway.

So here's hoping.
__________________
Steve Bracken

Build Thread
Twigg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2017, 06:24 PM   #34
Bus Crazy
 
M1031A1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Dowdy Lakes, Colorado
Posts: 1,444
Year: 1989
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Saf-T-Liner ER
Engine: 3208 CAT/MT643 tranny
Rated Cap: 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by Twigg View Post
So the data plate says "Dana J-230"

That's a Spicer rear axle and they offer 7.17. Another guy I know has almost the same bus with the same axle, and 6.14 ratio. He has 6th unlocked.

If the RPMs are reading 200 over, and the tire height is correct, I have a 7.17 FD Ratio ... none of the other ratios come even close to the numbers I'm seeing.

I just ordered a Scangauge D, so in a few days I'll have more accurate numbers, but I suspect I'm getting closer.

6.14 and 6th would give me great acceleration in towns, and good low revs on the highway.

So here's hoping.
Ah, ok. So much for my research...... Sounds like you have a Henderson, KY Dana rear axle. Heck, I might have hauled your axle to the factory back then since Walt's Drive-A-Way had a contract with Thomas from Henderson, KY to their Carolina factory.....

M
__________________
Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the American people’s liberty teeth and keystone under independence. — George Washington
M1031A1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2017, 06:48 PM   #35
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Owasso, OK
Posts: 2,627
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Saf-T-Liner MVP ER
Engine: Cummins 6CTA8.3 Mechanical MD3060
Rated Cap: 46 Coach Seats, 40 foot
Quote:
Originally Posted by M1031A1 View Post
Ah, ok. So much for my research...... Sounds like you have a Henderson, KY Dana rear axle. Heck, I might have hauled your axle to the factory back then since Walt's Drive-A-Way had a contract with Thomas from Henderson, KY to their Carolina factory.....

M
I emailed Thomas. I hope they can give me the original build spec from the VIN #
__________________
Steve Bracken

Build Thread
Twigg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2017, 08:29 PM   #36
Bus Crazy
 
M1031A1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Dowdy Lakes, Colorado
Posts: 1,444
Year: 1989
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Saf-T-Liner ER
Engine: 3208 CAT/MT643 tranny
Rated Cap: 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by Twigg View Post
I emailed Thomas. I hope they can give me the original build spec from the VIN #
Now THAT would be wild if I delivered your axle from Henderson, KY!

M
__________________
Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the American people’s liberty teeth and keystone under independence. — George Washington
M1031A1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2017, 09:08 PM   #37
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Owasso, OK
Posts: 2,627
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Saf-T-Liner MVP ER
Engine: Cummins 6CTA8.3 Mechanical MD3060
Rated Cap: 46 Coach Seats, 40 foot
Quote:
Originally Posted by M1031A1 View Post
Now THAT would be wild if I delivered your axle from Henderson, KY!

M
Build date was May 98. I guess the axle was delivered in the few weeks prior.
__________________
Steve Bracken

Build Thread
Twigg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2017, 09:13 PM   #38
Bus Crazy
 
M1031A1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Dowdy Lakes, Colorado
Posts: 1,444
Year: 1989
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Saf-T-Liner ER
Engine: 3208 CAT/MT643 tranny
Rated Cap: 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by Twigg View Post
Build date was May 98. I guess the axle was delivered in the few weeks prior.
That's the time in which I was doing that run.... My other two drivers were doing it as well..... WOW!!!! Boggles the mind that one of my trucks may have delivered that axle to the factory!!!!! (I owned three rigs at that time)

M
__________________
Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the American people’s liberty teeth and keystone under independence. — George Washington
M1031A1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2017, 08:31 AM   #39
Bus Nut
 
golfersmurf57's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 386
Usually there's a bolt with a metal stamped tag attached. It will give the teeth on ring and pinion possibly even ratio. If that fails jack up a wheel and count turns?

Sent from my LGL64VL using Tapatalk
golfersmurf57 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2017, 08:36 AM   #40
Bus Nut
 
golfersmurf57's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 386
I'm about 18 miles east of the Thomas "factory" if that's what it is on hwy 378 east of I-77

Sent from my LGL64VL using Tapatalk
golfersmurf57 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:08 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2023, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.