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Old 12-21-2017, 10:28 AM   #101
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So the plywood doesn't want to budge.

It is fixed down so tight this could take weeks .... unless ...

Unless I remove all the vinyl flooring, confirm that the plywood is good and that there really is no rust, and leave it down.

I haven't seen any rust, anywhere and I have got access to the edges of the wheel wells (well one of them so far).

If I leave the plywood down, insulate on top of it and put another plywood layer on top that will only cost me 5/8th inch headroom over what I had planned, and give me a very solid floor to screw things down to.

I have 78" headroom so I'm going to give this some more thought.

Suggestions?

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Old 12-21-2017, 01:56 PM   #102
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Rated Cap: 84 pax or 1 RV; 33,000lbs
Quote:
Originally Posted by Twigg View Post
Cummins 6CTA (8.3L) 250 hp
What the hell is a 6CTA? I've got a '99 8,3L and it is an ISC. Max RPM for an ISC is 3,000 rpm per Cummins. Not per forums.

Engine Performance Maximum Switched Engine Speed - Parameter
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Engine Dataplate - (Original) VIN: 1BAANB7A2XF085392
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Old 12-21-2017, 02:04 PM   #103
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Engine: 8.3L Cummins ISC 260hp, MT643, 4.44 rear
Rated Cap: 84 pax or 1 RV; 33,000lbs
Quote:
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By the way, it's currently 30F outside and the bus just started up first touch of the key. A bit of clatter for 30 seconds and it settled down to a smooth tickover. I wanted to try a completely cold start. It passed. There are a few nice little touches about the place that suggest that someone took pride in their maintenance in the past.
This is normal regardless of the temp.

The bus barn guy went over all kinds of stuff with me. It starts, runs like a lopping hotrod for about 30 seconds then purrs like a kitten. Last time I started mine (colder than usual) I started to worry a bit. It was a minute + before smoothing out.
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Old 12-21-2017, 02:16 PM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brewerbob View Post
What the hell is a 6CTA? I've got a '99 8,3L and it is an ISC. Max RPM for an ISC is 3,000 rpm per Cummins. Not per forums.

Engine Performance Maximum Switched Engine Speed - Parameter
1000 - 3000 rpm



Engine Dataplate - (Original) VIN: 1BAANB7A2XF085392
Marketing Model Name
ISC 250

Service Model Name
ISC CM554

EPA Model Name
Not Available

Shop Order
SO39058


Build Plant
CNS - CONSOLIDATED DIESEL CO.

Build Date
28 Aug 1998

Warranty Start Date
06 Jan 1999

ECM Code
Not Available

Fuel Pump Part #
3417160

Fuel Pump Calibration
GA98

Marketing Engine Configuration #
D413028BU05

Technical Engine Configuration #
D413028BX03

CPL #
CPL2233

Customer Number
1123

Customer Name
Not Available
The ISC replaced the venerable 6C8.3. It was the first electronic version of the 8.3L

6C is the series, T is turbocharged, A is Aftercooled.

The switchover was between March, when mine was made, and August, when yours was made.

Mine is rev-limited to either 2200 or 2400 ... hard to tell which from the spec because they offered both.
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Old 12-21-2017, 02:44 PM   #105
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Rated Cap: 84 pax or 1 RV; 33,000lbs
Quote:
Originally Posted by Twigg View Post
The switchover was between March, when mine was made, and August, when yours was made.
Interesting that they would switch mid production year.

I don't have an hour meter (than I've found yet). Haven't had teh computer scanned. And for $125 for 2 minutes' work, I'm not likely to either.
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Old 12-21-2017, 03:58 PM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brewerbob View Post
Interesting that they would switch mid production year.

I don't have an hour meter (than I've found yet). Haven't had teh computer scanned. And for $125 for 2 minutes' work, I'm not likely to either.
My hour meter is showing 5500 hours
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Old 12-23-2017, 03:42 PM   #107
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Inside is finally clear

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Mrs Twigg "helping"

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Old 12-23-2017, 04:33 PM   #108
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Oh, NOW I won't have to worry about banging my head on the luggage racks.....

Lookin' REAL good Twigg!

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Old 12-23-2017, 04:59 PM   #109
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Oh, NOW I won't have to worry about banging my head on the luggage racks.....

Lookin' REAL good Twigg!

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They were a pain. Hate to think how much they cost as an option on that bus.
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Old 12-23-2017, 07:55 PM   #110
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You're getting to it. The whole Twigg clan. All both of you anyway.

Now you can see your rolling real estate. I find it exceedingly hard to keep that open feeling in my floorplan.
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Old 12-23-2017, 08:09 PM   #111
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emngine changes mid-year are not uncommon.. navistar did a Major update of the 444E in 99.. mid year.. ECM software was changed, Injectors were updated to a different type. new injector cups in the heads.. .. allow for Safe use of ELC coolant..

is kind of interesting that they went from non E to E mid year though... maybe they wanted ot make sure all old stock was used up before they introduced the new one.. knowing everyone would want ot still buy the old style.. .
no on e wants to be the guinea pig.. though chances are since your bus is strill around. since 99, you got a good one bob..

cold starts... when I started my DT360 last year in near 0f weather (niot plugged in). it chugged around a bit and cranked quite a bit before it was running smooth.. as a kid I remember our IH scouts chug-a-chug-a-chug.. for a couple minutes with loads of smoke...


this thomas is lookin good... you are making short work of getting it cleared out!!..


-Christopher
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Old 12-26-2017, 08:37 AM   #112
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Quote:
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Inside is finally clear

Mrs Twigg "helping"
Looks pretty damn clean. Mine didn't look anwhere near that nice.

It's good to have "help". Remind her that she can tell what to do or how to do it but NOT both.


Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillackid View Post
engine changes mid-year are not uncommon.. Navistar did a Major update of the 444E in 99.. mid year.. ECM software was changed, Injectors were updated to a different type. new injector cups in the heads.. .. allow for Safe use of ELC coolant..
It's not the way I would run the rail road. Wait for the new production year to make the big changes. Software updates are no biggie. Otherwise if it ain't broke, wait to introduce even the new carb.

Quote:
no one wants to be the guinea pig.. though chances are since your bus is still around. since 99, you got a good one bob..
If I had known that, I would have opted for a different year. I've been bit by the intro year bug before.

Quote:
cold starts... when I started my DT360 last year in near 0f weather (not plugged in). it chugged around a bit and cranked quite a bit before it was running smooth.. as a kid I remember our IH scouts chug-a-chug-a-chug.. for a couple minutes with loads of smoke...
-Christopher
Forecast is for 9° New Years Day. That's still a week out in the forecast but Sat thru Tues the lows are <15°.
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Old 12-26-2017, 11:41 AM   #113
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Looks pretty damn clean. Mine didn't look anwhere near that nice.
There are a couple of issues I have seen so far.

Engine is leaking both oil and coolant. Not much of either ... no mess on the ground, but enough to coat the lower half of the motor in engine oil.

There is an issue with the steering. That's probably going to turn out to be a track rod end or king pin.

Other than that, all seems fine. Engine is running strong and smoothly, transmission is shifting all the way to 5th and has no fault codes.

I'll deal with the steering in the spring and change all the fluids and filters probably before then.
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Old 12-27-2017, 01:10 PM   #114
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If there is going to be any rust on the bodyshell, it will be where the wheel arches meet the floor. Every bus I have seen pictures of, that has significant rust, has rust by the wheel wells.

So, not entirely happy with the decision to leave the OEM floor in place (and insulate over it) I decided to check.

I removed all the vinyl around the front passenger arch by the stair well ... right where the saltiest of little feet rest, and this is what I found:

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The brown you can see is the remains of the adhesive. The seams where there should be rust look like they just left the factory. I'll check the others as I work my way back, but so far there is little sign of rust on the outside, and no sign of any inside.

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Old 12-27-2017, 01:20 PM   #115
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Excellent news! But always best to pull the puke mat and know for sure before investing a lot of time & money building on top of it. Good call.
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Old 12-27-2017, 01:31 PM   #116
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Excellent news! But always best to pull the puke mat and know for sure before investing a lot of time & money building on top of it. Good call.
I guess the benefit of it being an expensive Activity bus is that it doesn't get a twice-daily dose of salty feet clambering all over it. My guess is that it took the sports teams and band on long trips to road fixtures.

It was sold by Gordon Rushville School District, in the North West of Nebraska. It's a rural area in the dry side of the state, and any away fixtures probably required quite a bit of travelling.
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Old 12-27-2017, 01:38 PM   #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twigg View Post
The brown you can see is the remains of the adhesive. The seams where there should be rust look like they just left the factory. I'll check the others as I work my way back, but so far there is little sign of rust on the outside, and no sign of any inside.

I hate you!!!



^This is the driver's side front. It was the worst of mine. All of the black spots were rust of some sort. Mostly surface dust.


More pics in a minute.
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Old 12-27-2017, 01:40 PM   #118
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super neat if all of the floor looks like that!! ive seen buysses where the floor is nearly non existent around the stairwell. the next worst area seems to be right under the rear windows.. not sure if this hold true on an RE or not.. but on CE and FE that rear window always seems to leak in between the outer and interior panel and cause rust issues.. that may not happen on an RE since the window configfuration is different.

sounds like its time to degrease and clean the whole engine area really good, then drive it and see if you can tell where the leaks are coming from.. if oil is leaking from a rotating shaft it is often sprayed all over so after a few years of that the whole engine looks like a mess even with a minor leak... of course coolant is thin.. it drips and runs from its origin..
-Christopher
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Old 12-27-2017, 01:45 PM   #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brewerbob View Post
Looks pretty damn clean. Mine didn't look anwhere near that nice.

It's good to have "help". Remind her that she can tell what to do or how to do it but NOT both.


It's not the way I would run the rail road. Wait for the new production year to make the big changes. Software updates are no biggie. Otherwise if it ain't broke, wait to introduce even the new carb.

If I had known that, I would have opted for a different year. I've been bit by the intro year bug before.

Forecast is for 9° New Years Day. That's still a week out in the forecast but Sat thru Tues the lows are <15°.

ha! was 0f this morning here.. both busses kicked over.. the red one easy - it has glow plugs.. the DEV. started on its own but I had to give it a couple tries.. it had sat for a month, and I also didnt want to just keep bl;asting and ruin the starter motor.. so i gave it a couple 10 second tries and it was running..

mid year changes are prevalent in the car world too.. go to a parts store and ask for parts for an 07 silverado.. they will ask you "old or new".. at this point most people have no idea as both are still just old trucks by now... im with you.. major changes should wait till the next model year..
-Christopher
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Old 12-27-2017, 01:45 PM   #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillackid View Post
super neat if all of the floor looks like that!! ive seen buysses where the floor is nearly non existent around the stairwell. the next worst area seems to be right under the rear windows.. not sure if this hold true on an RE or not.. but on CE and FE that rear window always seems to leak in between the outer and interior panel and cause rust issues.. that may not happen on an RE since the window configfuration is different.

sounds like its time to degrease and clean the whole engine area really good, then drive it and see if you can tell where the leaks are coming from.. if oil is leaking from a rotating shaft it is often sprayed all over so after a few years of that the whole engine looks like a mess even with a minor leak... of course coolant is thin.. it drips and runs from its origin..
-Christopher
Some of the pictures on the auction site were more useful than others. The stairwell looked clean, and it is. The battery box was filled with a thick layer of dust, but it too is clean with black paint and no rust.

I think steam-cleaning the engine is an excellent idea, followed by a 50-mile run then a close inspection. That can wait for warmer weather. There is also the steering to check and fix. One of the steer tires has a flat spot which may or may not resolve itself, but that might be causing the vibration, not the "clunk".
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