To Remove the Ceiling Skins & Reinsulate or Not To...

[Buyzen]

That is the question...

My 2013 five window Chevy 3500 Shuttle Bus is in pretty nice condition inside out. I'm not planning to live in this in the winter time (unless I'm in the west coast PNW), so it's more of a 3 season bus but would be nice to handle some colder temps if I wanted. I'm putting in a wood stove and propane/diesel heater as backup. I'm just sealing up the floor from all the bolt/wheelchair holes. I'm not stripping the floor to the steel as it's not necessary it's in great condition and I can't afford to loose any headroom.

Onto the ceiling/walls.. I'm 6ft tall and have about 1-2 inches give or take of comfortable headroom. I can't afford to lose any more room so if I remove the ceiling skins and re-insulate, I won't be able to put any thicker insulation in replace of the original fibreglass. As you can see from my 1st photo I opened up the roof to see the insulation thickness/room. There's about 1.25-1.50 inches of room for insulation. There's no insulation behind the speaker panels on the sides.

So is it still worth it to demo and replace the 10 year old insulation? I plan on using either havelock or most likely rockwool. I'm not into spray foam for various reasons I won't get into and a roof raise is out of the question for this small build. Any cedar or pine I use for the ceiling if I re-insulate will need to be really thin as well.

Curious what you would do in my case since my headroom is limited. Open to your suggestions!

Thank youuu

[Danjo]

I have a 5 window Thomas. I just led the fiberfill insulation in it. I am of the opinion that conduction and infiltration through the windows is a much bigger culprit of heat loss and gain.

[Buyzen]

Originally Posted by Danjo

I have a 5 window Thomas. I just led the fiberfill insulation in it. I am of the opinion that conduction and infiltration through the windows is a much bigger culprit of heat loss and gain.

This is what I was originally thinking as well. If I focus on getting good insulating window coverings, good heating systems, etc. rather than demo'ing the ceiling/walls where I can't increase the insulation thickness.

However on the other hand I know if I at least use Rockwool is it more heat, moisture and pest resistant than fiberglass. This bus also spent it's life in rainy Vancouver. I don't have any indication of it ever having leaks but again who knows till you open it up.

[Danjo]

It’s true if it’s wet and compacted it’s not going to be good.

[Danjo]

If you live somewhere cold that has a dew point you can tell relatively how good your insulation is by putting heater in it and observing how long the dew stays on the roof in the morning

[nikitis]

You can potentially double the R value of what is default there. Depending on where you stay for the winter and summer will determine if you should do it. If you are in a very cold climate I would do it.

If you live in South Town (Heat Mizer), probably can get away with not doing it, but you may wish you had it in summer for keeping cool air in longer.

So if you can move north for the summer, and south for the Winter you probably don't need to go through the trouble.

[melwade]

The thin insulation of buses is not designed for someone living there. They are designed for use with an unlimited, cost-free (other than the operational cost of driving the bus) heat and A/C source that operates as long as the vehicle is in use. Living in a bus keeps it closed up more which causes more moisture to in the air (cooking/bathing) and condense on metal surfaces. Consider removing the ceiling and installing closed-cell spray foam insulation. This will also allow you to add the wiring to the space before the insulation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bnd4r3aUTW0

[Bon Voyage]

You said you don’t like spray foam but you also asked what we’d do so here’s my answer - use Good insulation like spray foam, that will make it more comfortable to be in wether it’s hot or cold. Then just replace the fibreglass ceiling or use some thin wood paneling. I’m happy with the spray foam in my bus.
Yes windows leak a lot of heat and that is a concern to address as well.

[melwade]

If you are not going to spray foam look carefully at what you need for a vapor barrier. Here's a video that reviews Havelock. More importantly, It discusses what you need if you do use that product. Definitely go that way if that is what you want in your bus, just go into it knowing the pros and what you need to mitigate the cons.

That's the cool thing of building a bus is that you can make it what you want.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCER7XJObHA

[Buyzen]

Hey everyone, thanks for the replies. So after trying to drill through the rivets with little success I ended up returning to the angle grinder. However after opening up a side panel as pictured below I noticed the ceiling skin wraps itself almost into the frame!? It seems attached fairly solid and I don't want to continue ripping my nice 2013 panels apart unless I know it'll ALL come off.

This is a shuttle bus with a fiberglass body and aluminum/steel frame. It also isn't a winter bus and things like this make me re-question pulling the skins off at all since most the heat loss is through the windows and my focus on insulation there might be better? I'll also have great heating systems with a wood stove and propex blown air propane heater.

I know everyone will always recommend replacing the insulation even in newer buses but this is making me go hmmmmmm is it even worth it for my build and all the extra money and labour involved?

Open to your feedback as always..

[melwade]

IMO the best way to deal with rivets is an air chisel. Not fun either way. Tough decisions to make.

[desrtdog]

I agree - air chisel. Post a pic of the rivets ... if they have a pretty solid core (like on a school bus), then use a punch on the air chisel to blast the core out and the heads ill chisel off easy. Harbor Freight has pretty inexpensive air tools.

As far as the ceiling panels go, looks like that side panel just holds them in place and covers the wire channel...they should come off fine - you've already started, so not sure how you'd get those areas to look "nice" again.

[Buyzen]

I tried using an air chisel before the other methods and it never worked for me with these rivets so I returned it. The area I started removing will be the bathroom area so if I wanted to not remove anymore rivets it wouldn't affect the overall look.

However I think I just need to continue and trust it'll all work out. New insulation and new cedar panelling would be way more ideal than what I have now. I suppose part of the build process when we feel these "walls or blocks" is to continue and not allow them to stop our progress.

[melwade]

Rivets are never fun to deal with. You get better as you go. As mentioned, some rivets have steel center pins in the middle of the rivet. If you have those you need to knock out the center using a pointed air chisel bit. It can help to sharpe the flat bit of the chisel to get under the edge of the rivet a bit better.

Here are rivets without the center pin. https://youtu.be/aW6Yx1bRmXM?t=589

We were fortunate that most of the inside of our bus was put together with screws but there were still a lot of rivets to deal with.