Towing Car on Trailer?

[Joe45]

Originally Posted by shocktower

Flat towing is the worst idea, if you can trailer it and have a shop/garage I would do it, there is less wear and tear in your FJ and with it in a trailer it is more secure JHMO

That's my view exactly. I know someone who has a Super C and tows an enclosed trailer, which doubles as a workshop, and he alternates between his old Range Rover and Defender 90. Not sure what engine he has though.



I am considering an aluminum trailer.



Also, how about those industrial type trailers that have two axles, but instead of them being one right in front of the other, the are at front and rear of the trailer? Seems like that design would prevent a lot of pitching and stress on the bus because it's more like a toad: four tires on the ground in the same pattern as a car/truck.
I've seen them on the road carrying heavy loads like lumber etc.

[JackE]

Each have their pro's and con's. A trailer like that has essentially zero tongue weight, translating to zero loss on overall payload. You will also have almost zero ability to back up with something like that. Also, have you ever seen the slithering snake of triples rolling down the freeway at 75 mph with a 40 mph cross wind? It wouldn't be as bad as that, but any amount of wind and you are dealing with a second set of steer tires that can create some amount of sway. I worked for a logging company years ago. The boss' truck was a 35' straight truck with a 30' pup. He had rigged up a lock on the 5th wheel of the pup that locked it in place and didn't allow it to steer, making backing up fairly easy.

[Sehnsucht]

Originally Posted by JackE

Each have their pro's and con's. A trailer like that has essentially zero tongue weight, translating to zero loss on overall payload. You will also have almost zero ability to back up with something like that. Also, have you ever seen the slithering snake of triples rolling down the freeway at 75 mph with a 40 mph cross wind? It wouldn't be as bad as that, but any amount of wind and you are dealing with a second set of steer tires that can create some amount of sway. I worked for a logging company years ago. The boss' truck was a 35' straight truck with a 30' pup. He had rigged up a lock on the 5th wheel of the pup that locked it in place and didn't allow it to steer, making backing up fairly easy.

I've seen this in specific applications where a forked device is dropped from the trailer nose over the drawbar so that it cannot pivot, forcing it to track straight in order to back it up I'd imagine.

And yes that configuration (called an A-train BTW) using a dolly or fixed steering axle on the trailer adds pivot points which amplify sway and the reason doubles and triples are often referred to as wiggle wagons because the back trailer can sometimes get to cracking back and forth like a whip. Going back to the OP and I think I've said this earlier in this thread, there's also the total towing weight to consider. The trailer, ANY trailer, is weight the engine and transmission has to propel even if it's tongue weight is essentially zero. Once you add up the weight of the trailer, the SUV on/in it, plus any other toys/tools/stuff you pack in, you could be dealing with far more weight than you realize and subsequently way over the hitch rating.

[Ronnie]

You can always go to a heavy rated hitch, so no issue there. Total weight can be an issue. I looked up my max combined weight, in bus form it is not a published figure, but for the same chassis, engine and trans in truck form the gross combined weight is 34,000lbs. So for me that is 18,000lbs for the bus( I weighed it) and up to 16,000lbs for the trailer. To me that is pushing it, but I have had 10,000lbs a few times without any problems. So finding out what the same truck is rated for in a combined rating might be of some help.

As for the industrial 4 wheel trailers, and farm trailers as they are set up the same I would say no. They normally have a front axle with the steering set up like a truck that is controlled by the trailer tongue. This would seem to be a good idea however in practice you see the trailers weaving a good bit when used on the road to haul hay. A 5th wheel dolly would work better. Backing up is a pain as well.

I would find the actual weight of the Toyota, and at least the manufactures claimed weight of the enclosed trailer, add up any goodies you hope to have in there too. At least you then have an idea what hitch is needed, and if you are below the max combined weight rating.

[Joe45]

So I'll have to weigh my bus once I'm done building it, find out the rated capacity, and subtract the bus weight from it-then the difference is my limit regarding trailer and vehicle?


I figure it's good to avoid approaching the limits, correct?


My FJC has a Curb Weight of 4,295 lbs, and a Gross Weight of 5,570 lbs. I'll be adding a winch and bullbar, maybe a roof top tent, expedition drawers, fridge... also an auxiliary 30 gallon fuel tank. I figure that stuff, some recovery equipment, water, etc. will add maybe another 500 pounds. The max payload for it is 1,325lbs.



Seems that, getting as alight a trailer as I can-maybe aluminum, towing shouldn't be too bad.

[banman]

Originally Posted by Joe45

SNIP...
I figure it's good to avoid approaching the limits, correct?


My FJC has a Curb Weight of 4,295 lbs, and a Gross Weight of 5,570 lbs. I'll be adding a winch and bullbar, maybe a roof top tent, expedition drawers, fridge... also an auxiliary 30 gallon fuel tank. I figure that stuff, some recovery equipment, water, etc. will add maybe another 500 pounds. The max payload for it is 1,325lbs.

SNIP...

Generally, wear n' tear is exacerbated when operated at or above limits...

I think you're grossly underestimating your weight...
On my '75 Scout:
33 gal gas tank empty weighs 80lbs. 33 x 6lbs (weight of gas/lb) = 198 for a total weight of 278 when full.
My winch and bumper are ~150lbs. Use kevlar rope instead of steel cable to shave weight and increase safety.

Expedition drawers -- 100 lbs ? Now you're up to 428 lbs
I'm sure you're wanting a rear bumper and ladder to get to the roof rack/ future tent platform... 150 lbs. ?
Each 5 gal of water is 40 lbs... + the weight of the jug...

[Joe45]

You're correct. I'll have to do some calculations to get accurate measurements. However, I'm confident my weight will be below the limit.


45 gallons of fuel @ 6lbs per gallon = 270lbs
10 gallons of water @ 8lbs per gallon = 80 lbs
Bumper/Winch = 150 lbs
Rear Bumper, ladder, and Tire carrier: 150 lbs.


650 pounds


With all the other gear, I'd have to weigh it out. And I can always keep things like the water in the bus until I'm heading out in the FJC. No use having all that weight there for no reason.

[RolesvilleMarina]

I flat tow my YJ behind the Van when we had it with no problem. I plan to do the same with our Vista when we are not pulling the sailboat.


I've flat towed scout's back when I was in the hobby though (over 20 years restoring them) and I would honestly prefer a trailer over flat towing scouts (my last was an 800a)

an FJ I am unsure... is it lifted? if it's lifted I would def prob lean towards a trailer then.. My YJ is not lifted, but if it was I wouldn't prob flat tow it

for what it's worth...

cool scouts... Here was my 1968



I sold it to a lad in the navy... he took it to norfolk base and abandoned it and got kicked out of navy. He never signed or turned in the titles So navy impounded it and after a year with a vin search sent me a letter... for $200 I re-claimed it..

the plow was gone, and the roof... But the scout was still in excellent shape..

so we re-painted it, drove it 3 more years, and sold it again

[PNW_Steve]

Originally Posted by WIbluebird

Is your FJ automatic or manual? I'd suggest looking into flat towing the vehicle on all 4 wheels, everybody says it's way easier than dealing with a car trailer.

I will be dealing with this scenario as well. I have a 2009 Tacoma auto but really don't want to be dealing with a car trailer. In order to safely flat tow I need a $1500 Remco driveline disconnect kit I may just keep an eye out for a cheap beater vehicle with manual trans.

I agree with Wibluebird.

I towed behind my first bus for around 200k miles. I towed on a trailer, I towed with a tow dolly and I have towed four wheels down.

Going down the highway they all pulled ok. The frustrating part comes with loading and unloading and figuring out what to do with the trailer or dolly. Some campgrounds will be difficult.

Having tried all three methods, I will absolutely be towing four wheels down. It is sooooo much easier.

[Joe45]

Love the Scout! Cool vehicles!


My FJC is lifted. I prefer the idea of having it a little safer above the ground, on a trailer, without everything thrown at it and miles put on it from being dragged around.


Also, it cannot be flat towed without a $1,000+ adapter. I'd rather spend that money on the trailer, or on a bull bar, etc.

[kidharris]

Originally Posted by banman

Generally, wear n' tear is exacerbated when operated at or above limits...

I think you're grossly underestimating your weight...
On my '75 Scout:
33 gal gas tank empty weighs 80lbs. 33 x 6lbs (weight of gas/lb) = 198 for a total weight of 278 when full.
My winch and bumper are ~150lbs. Use kevlar rope instead of steel cable to shave weight and increase safety.

Expedition drawers -- 100 lbs ? Now you're up to 428 lbs
I'm sure you're wanting a rear bumper and ladder to get to the roof rack/ future tent platform... 150 lbs. ?
Each 5 gal of water is 40 lbs... + the weight of the jug...

How much do you allow for beer?

[banman]

Originally Posted by kidharris

How much do you allow for beer?

The GVWR of my Scout is a little over 6000lbs so hauling beer is a matter of volume -- no concern about the weight!

[RolesvilleMarina]

Originally Posted by Joe45

Love the Scout! Cool vehicles!


My FJC is lifted. I prefer the idea of having it a little safer above the ground, on a trailer, without everything thrown at it and miles put on it from being dragged around.


Also, it cannot be flat towed without a $1,000+ adapter. I'd rather spend that money on the trailer, or on a bull bar, etc.

yeah at that point if you MUST spend then better on trailer than a flat tow setup

a trailer will be handy for other toys and things

and again flat towing lifted vehicles can be sketchy... not all but some

cheers

[kidharris]

Originally Posted by banman

The GVWR of my Scout is a little over 6000lbs so hauling beer is a matter of volume -- no concern about the weight!

I suppose it depends on how fast you consume it and how many consumers you have. As far as volume goes, I believe you can always make more room for more beer, no matter GVWR.