Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 09-11-2017, 07:47 AM   #1
Traveling
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Midwest
Posts: 2,573
Year: 2003
Coachwork: BlueBird
Chassis: TC2000
Engine: 5.9L Cummins
Rated Cap: '00
Unique window approach -thermal loss

So, my bus has no windows for the most part. I like the idea of free light, but hate loosing the insulation. Double pane RV windows were suggested.

Would need to come up with way to seal it, but...

Glass Block windows?

Seves Glass Block Clarity Glass Block 8in x 8in x 3-1/8in. $24
Actual Width (in.): 7.75 in
Actual Height (in.): 7.75 in
Actual Thickness (in.): 3.125 in
Manufacturer Warranty: 5 Year
U-Value: .264
R-Value: 3.78
Visible Light Transmission: 76%
Name:  884 clarity_1.png
Views: 161
Size:  50.5 KB


I also love the idea of putting these in the ceiling/wall- sorta like stained glass.

Seves VetroPieno Solid Glass Full Brick Blue
9.5"x 4.6" x 2"
24 cm x 11.7 cm x 5.3 cm

Name:  Glass-Block-Nordica_vetropieno.jpg
Views: 164
Size:  14.4 KB

Name:  Glass-Block-Neutro_vetropieno.jpg
Views: 161
Size:  18.9 KB

Name:  Glass-Block-Blu_vetropieno.jpg
Views: 161
Size:  25.7 KB

Rusty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2017, 07:56 AM   #2
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 18,753
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
I think glass block can work if you can find a flexible material to mortar them with.. the typical is more like a concrete consistency / grout.. also would wasnt that in and of itself to be insulating.. glass block windows with center screened-vents are common place here in ohio for basement and bathroom windows.. I dont know how well they insulate, since most of the modern windows are actually charged with some type of gas to help with the insulating properties.. and the 2 panes of glass are isolated from each other... has to be 20X better than school bus windows though!
-Christopher
cadillackid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2017, 09:21 AM   #3
Traveling
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Midwest
Posts: 2,573
Year: 2003
Coachwork: BlueBird
Chassis: TC2000
Engine: 5.9L Cummins
Rated Cap: '00
Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillackid View Post
I think glass block can work if you can find a flexible material to mortar them with..
I was thinking more of a molded gasket with a channel to hold the skin of the bus, like windshields use. Cut a larger piece to length and splice end w sealant.
Attached Thumbnails
3M-BUBBLE-U-PVC-WINDOW-DOOR-GASKET-SEAL-Weather-strip-Interior-Exterior-Edge-Trim-Lock-Seal.jpg  
Rusty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2017, 09:58 AM   #4
Bus Crazy
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Salt Lake City Utah
Posts: 1,635
Year: 2000
Chassis: Blue Bird
Engine: ISC 8.3
That's a cool idea. In addition to the seal maybe you'd want some kind of mechanical clip to prevent the blocks being moved by wind pressure, collision, etc. If several blocks are to be used together, maybe something like body seam sealer could be used in place of the mortar that a fixed building would use.
family wagon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2017, 12:17 PM   #5
Skoolie
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 164
Intriguing idea. It would let in light while maintaining privacy, and it does have dead air space inside to help reduce thermal conductivity. That rubber gasket material could probably seal them without holding them too tightly.

One concern does come to mind - Is that glass safe for on-road use? I mean, is it safety glass or tempered glass? I have no idea what those bricks are made out of, so maybe it is, but I'd check before using them.

I'm actually considering a way to put round windows into a bus using round sheets of glass that are available for glass table tops. Curiously enough, those tables are tempered glass, so they meet safety requirements for side glazing.
lucasd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2017, 01:43 PM   #6
Traveling
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Midwest
Posts: 2,573
Year: 2003
Coachwork: BlueBird
Chassis: TC2000
Engine: 5.9L Cummins
Rated Cap: '00
Quote:
Originally Posted by lucasd View Post

I'm actually considering a way to put round windows into a bus using round sheets of glass that are available for glass table tops. Curiously enough, those tables are tempered glass, so they meet safety requirements for side glazing.

Those bricks would survive a crash- they are impossible to break.

Love the round window idea. tell us more- how sealed? I wanted to put these in by the kids bunkbeds or roof:

Click image for larger version

Name:	pet-peek-fence-window-for-dogs-1.jpg
Views:	13
Size:	47.4 KB
ID:	15822
Rusty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2017, 01:57 PM   #7
Bus Crazy
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Salt Lake City Utah
Posts: 1,635
Year: 2000
Chassis: Blue Bird
Engine: ISC 8.3
Kids would love the domed window!

I've been planning to have windows made from flat plate for my bunk beds (for lack of better creativity, obviously!). They'd be about 10x20 inch rectangles with radiused corners. To secure them into place I've been looking at C.R. Laurence 10252 one-piece weatherstrip for mounting 1/8 to 3/16 inch glass into a panel 1/16 to 3/32 inch thick. That's how windshields were installed Once Upon a Time, and I'm told it's still used for applications like industrial equipment (tractors). Similar products accommodate thicker glass and/or thicker panels.

Where does one buy a domed window like that, and is it tempered?
family wagon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2017, 02:02 PM   #8
Almost There
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 71
I've seen an RV that had the windows replaced with thin glass strips at standing eye level instead of big tall windows. It seems like a good idea to me, the view is there if you want it, privacy is good because you would need a ladder to peak in unless you were 8'+ tall and you cut your window insulation losses by probably 80%. I bet it's easy making short curtains too.

I think free light is a bit over rated, 20-30 watts of well planned LED lighting should make a Bus nice and bright and using a flashlight to look in to the back of cabinets and other dark spots isn't too big of an inconvenience. At times when you don't need it nice and bright, 5-10 watts of LED lighting should be enough to dimly light a bus. It's not a big power draw unless you have no solar or you are cutting it really really close.

I don't think I would try glass block for RV windows, even if it was just one strip. I would be too worried about having one pop out or shatter due to body flexing or vibration. I think I would probably look for some sort of coated polycarbonate (but I'm not sure that's a good idea either). If the insulation value is a big deal, just use less window.
Drop out is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2017, 03:32 PM   #9
Skoolie
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusty View Post
Love the round window idea. tell us more- how sealed?
So far, I think the best approach would be to make a flat, circular frame out of metal (like the rim of a Frisbee) that fits into the hole for mounting the window. That way, the round frame could be rigidly attached via bolts or welds to the wall supports and outer skin, while the glass itself is held in place to the backside of the ring via a series of retaining clips. Eternabond type compound and sufficient pressure from rivets/clips should keep water infiltration from occurring.

I think it will take some metal work to make the outer edge where the frame meets the skin of the bus actually look nice, but it seems possible.
lucasd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2017, 05:14 PM   #10
Traveling
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Midwest
Posts: 2,573
Year: 2003
Coachwork: BlueBird
Chassis: TC2000
Engine: 5.9L Cummins
Rated Cap: '00
Quote:
Originally Posted by lucasd View Post
So far, I think the best approach would be to make a flat, circular frame out of metal (like the rim of a Frisbee) that fits into the hole for mounting the window.
So, angle aluminum bent in a circle?

Click image for larger version

Name:	discus-circle-aluminum-2.jpg
Views:	12
Size:	10.7 KB
ID:	15823

I actually bought a porthole for a boat to test

Click image for larger version

Name:	81mxmizZ05L._SY355_.jpg
Views:	11
Size:	13.6 KB
ID:	15824
Rusty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2017, 08:17 PM   #11
Skoolie
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusty View Post
So, angle aluminum bent in a circle?

Attachment 15823

I actually bought a porthole for a boat to test

Attachment 15824
Something like that angle piece, though with a flat rim inside, too, so there's a surface to seal against.

I actually considered portholes, but those get crazy expensive for big ones and aren't exactly what I'm going for. I might use a few smaller ones for bathroom windows or something, just to keep the "round" theme going.

Sent from my Ascend Mate 2 using Tapatalk
lucasd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2017, 12:03 AM   #12
Bus Nut
 
TJones's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Rapid City, SD
Posts: 993
Year: 2001
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: CS RE
Engine: ISC 8.3 L 260 hp
Rated Cap: 36
Has anyone tried doubling up the factory windows by building an interior frame and mounting windows that were removed and skinned over?
TJones is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2017, 09:16 AM   #13
Traveling
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Midwest
Posts: 2,573
Year: 2003
Coachwork: BlueBird
Chassis: TC2000
Engine: 5.9L Cummins
Rated Cap: '00
Quote:
Originally Posted by TJones View Post
Has anyone tried doubling up the factory windows by building an interior frame and mounting windows that were removed and skinned over?
I think they fog-up if not sealed between panes and filled with inert gas.
Rusty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2017, 12:13 PM   #14
Bus Crazy
 
milkmania's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Oklahoma aka "God's blind spot"
Posts: 2,446
Year: 1989
Coachwork: 1853FC International/Navistar
Chassis: 35' Retired Air Force Ambulance
Engine: DT466, MT643
Rated Cap: 6 souls and a driver
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusty View Post
I think they fog-up if not sealed between panes and filled with inert gas.
Make it air tight, use small vacuum pumps to pull vacuum & moisture.
Plumb it underneath and set it on a timer to pull vacuum several times a day.

Spit-balling here
__________________
I once complained I had no shoes....
Until I met a man with no feet
milkmania is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2017, 12:20 PM   #15
Traveling
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Midwest
Posts: 2,573
Year: 2003
Coachwork: BlueBird
Chassis: TC2000
Engine: 5.9L Cummins
Rated Cap: '00
Quote:
Originally Posted by milkmania View Post
Make it air tight, use small vacuum pumps to pull vacuum & moisture.
Plumb it underneath and set it on a timer to pull vacuum several times a day.

Spit-balling here
What if I hook it up to the intake on my air brake compressor? It'd suck, all right.
Rusty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2017, 02:57 PM   #16
Bus Crazy
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: SW New Hampshire
Posts: 1,334
Much easier to toss in a bag of dessicant and bake it once a week, methinks. Ultimately useless, since the damn things leak like sieves anyway. The seals are little fuzzy lines of fluff, ferpetessake!

OTOH, hooking up the air compressor input between a couple _might_ pull enough vacuum to crack the windows. That'd be interesting.

Now there's a good point. Is there an air filter on the input side of the brake air compressor? I've never heard mention of it here, and we do like to change our filters.
dan-fox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2017, 03:13 PM   #17
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 18,753
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
many busses use Turbo-input air into the air compressor.. so the air goes through the intake air filter then to the compressor.. some have a small air filter on the compressor intake.
-Christopher
cadillackid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2017, 04:46 PM   #18
Bus Nut
 
TJones's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Rapid City, SD
Posts: 993
Year: 2001
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: CS RE
Engine: ISC 8.3 L 260 hp
Rated Cap: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusty View Post
I think they fog-up if not sealed between panes and filled with inert gas.
They probably would fog up with out venting. I thought about connecting adjacent windows with a tube in the frame and then using a fan to push air through them from the outside and venting to the interior for fresh interior air and for condensation prevention. The space between windows would probably be 2 to 3 inches depending on interior wall thickness. The space between windows could be temperatly filled with insulation if it were really hot or cold outside.

Probably not as good as double pane argon filled windows but cheaper.
TJones is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2017, 05:46 PM   #19
Bus Crazy
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: SW New Hampshire
Posts: 1,334
Quote:
Originally Posted by TJones View Post
They probably would fog up with out venting. I thought about connecting adjacent windows with a tube in the frame and then using a fan to push air through them from the outside and venting to the interior for fresh interior air and for condensation prevention. The space between windows would probably be 2 to 3 inches depending on interior wall thickness. The space between windows could be temperatly filled with insulation if it were really hot or cold outside.
I used to work on energy efficiency issues a couple of lifetimes ago, in the early 80s. IIRC there was some research done about the optimum distance between the 2 panes of glass in a double-insulated situation (when Roll-your-own was more feasible or necessary) and 2-3" was definitely too much. That's enough space for circulatory convection currents to set themselves up, with cold air traveling down one side and warm air up the other. It removed a good 85-90% of the benefit of the double-paning.

Look into it before you build something like that.
dan-fox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2017, 05:53 PM   #20
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 18,753
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
Quote:
Originally Posted by dan-fox View Post
I used to work on energy efficiency issues a couple of lifetimes ago, in the early 80s. IIRC there was some research done about the optimum distance between the 2 panes of glass in a double-insulated situation (when Roll-your-own was more feasible or necessary) and 2-3" was definitely too much. That's enough space for circulatory convection currents to set themselves up, with cold air traveling down one side and warm air up the other. It removed a good 85-90% of the benefit of the double-paning.

Look into it before you build something like that.
that same effect was mentioned in some advanced HVAC design classes i took in the 90s and early 00's. in regards to homes with storm windows vs double pane windows.. and it weas determined that storm windows were only good in situations where air infiltration was the main culprit of heat loss..

many people in ohio liked to use the inside- magnetic storm windows stating that they had "better than andersen-pella quality windows when these were in" only to find out they really didnt help alot against the cold glass effects.. but did help with the wind..

if you can find bus salvage yards in alaska or possibly canada. there actually were double pain Skoolie windows made.. for instance my Red bus has a double pane door window...

of course RV windows are truly better than skoolie windows all the way around..
-Christopher
cadillackid is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:20 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.