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Old 10-01-2020, 08:22 PM   #1
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Belton SC
Posts: 12
Wanted one bus got two

I came across one bus for sale. Low and behold they had two. What was I supposed to do, just buy one?
So hereís the question which one do I build and which one do I flip.
Bus #1 1998 tc2000. Engine 5.9 Cummins 12v at545. 72Ē ceiling. 26 ft long. 132in wheel base. Regular lug style wheels. 43k miles
Bus #2 1999 tc2000 5.9 Cummins 24v, at545. 68Ē ceiling 26 ft long. 132Ē wheel base, wedge style wheels. Has cruise control. 59k miles. Surge tank is leaking coolant.
I know both are the size I want, but which one will give me less trouble mechanically, Iíve never messed with 22.5Ē wedge wheels before so Iím alittle nervous about changing a spare on the side of the road. Cruise is nice, but the extra head room is also nice.
I know all about how crappy the transmissions are, I will deal with that later.
Any thoughts would be helpful. What do you guys think?
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Old 10-01-2020, 08:31 PM   #2
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The 24V is supposed to make better power, but is also known for the injection system being fickle.
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Old 10-01-2020, 09:23 PM   #3
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
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I have also heard that about the 24v. Supposedly the low pressure pump comes apart and then wreaks the high pressure pump
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Old 10-01-2020, 09:36 PM   #4
Bus Nut
 
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Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 432
Year: 2001
Coachwork: Thomas x2
Chassis: HDX/MVP ER
Engine: CAT 3126 x2
I would keep the one with the taller roof and look to the aftermarket for things to make the bus more friendly on the highway like cruise control (look to Dodge truck forums for ideas). Fix the killer dowel pin and the engine should be pretty trouble free because it's a 12v.
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Old 10-01-2020, 09:54 PM   #5
Mini-Skoolie
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Truthseeker4449 View Post
I would keep the one with the taller roof and look to the aftermarket for things to make the bus more friendly on the highway like cruise control (look to Dodge truck forums for ideas). Fix the killer dowel pin and the engine should be pretty trouble free because it's a 12v.
Iím leaning towards the 12v as well. It does feel like it struggles to get over 65mph at around 3200 rpm through. I know I can do a few things to get more power, but I am going for reliability over speed
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Old 10-01-2020, 10:02 PM   #6
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Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 432
Year: 2001
Coachwork: Thomas x2
Chassis: HDX/MVP ER
Engine: CAT 3126 x2
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercury351c View Post
I’m leaning towards the 12v as well. It does feel like it struggles to get over 65mph at around 3200 rpm through. I know I can do a few things to get more power, but I am going for reliability over speed
Well at 3,200 rpm you're at the governed RPM limit of the engine, any faster and you risk engine destruction. The engine would be much happier at 1,600 or 1,800 rpm. It would be better for MPG and longevity, as well keep the engine in its power band (which should start to nose dive after 2,200 rpm).

There's a few ways to try and improve this, one is a better transmission. Regearing the differential is another option, though 65 mph in a four speed transmission without lockup may mean the ratio isn't that bad to start with. The last way is go up in tire sizes if the bus doesn't already have 22.5" rims with 11R or 12R tires. The benefit from the last method will depend on how great the difference is between your current size and whatever you elect to put on. And if they fit in the wheel wells!
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Old 10-02-2020, 09:53 AM   #7
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Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 1,087
Year: 2001
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: All American
Engine: 8.3 Cummins ISC
Rated Cap: 75
With 11r22.5 tires you won't be changing those bad boys on the side of the road anytime soon. That is what roadside service is for! 11r is by far the most common tire size out there for big rigs so pretty much every truck stop along the interstate is going to have them in stock.

My vote is keep the TC1000 and sell the long one. Those 1000s are nice little buses. As mentioned before the AT545 is a downside but not a complete deal breaker imo.
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Old 10-02-2020, 10:14 AM   #8
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Location: Eustis FLORIDA
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Year: 1999
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I'd take bus 1. Sell bus 2 for what you paid for both.
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Old 10-02-2020, 10:28 AM   #9
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EastCoastCB View Post
I'd take bus 1. Sell bus 2 for what you paid for both.
I hope I can pull that off. # 1 bus also doesnít have wheel wells to build around
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Old 10-02-2020, 10:31 AM   #10
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WIbluebird View Post
With 11r22.5 tires you won't be changing those bad boys on the side of the road anytime soon. That is what roadside service is for! 11r is by far the most common tire size out there for big rigs so pretty much every truck stop along the interstate is going to have them in stock.

My vote is keep the TC1000 and sell the long one. Those 1000s are nice little buses. As mentioned before the AT545 is a downside but not a complete deal breaker imo.
I will probably have roadside on either one, but I might also be in some places where they canít get to me. Both buses are the same length as far as I can tell
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Old 10-02-2020, 11:18 AM   #11
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 14,415
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
check into the engines, make sure it isnt one of the problematic children.. i dont think 53 blocks ever made it into the busses.. killer dowel pin was around that time.. as also check to make sure the tappet cover isnt leaking on either of them..



if you are ever thinking about swapping transmissions to an electronic trans, the 24 valve will be better for that.. the 12 valve is a nice all mechanical engine but pretty slow in a bus...
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Old 10-02-2020, 11:24 AM   #12
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Belton SC
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Just a quick edit. Bus #1 has 76Ē ceiling bus #2 has 72Ē
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Old 10-02-2020, 02:28 PM   #13
Skoolie
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Central Alabama
Posts: 187
Year: 1998
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: TC/2000
Engine: 5.9 Cummins 12-valve
Rated Cap: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by EastCoastCB View Post
I'd take bus 1. Sell bus 2 for what you paid for both.
Wouldn't the market for the 12V make it easier to sell to more people? I am hoping so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillackid View Post
check into the engines, make sure it isnt one of the problematic children.. i dont think 53 blocks ever made it into the busses.. killer dowel pin was around that time.. as also check to make sure the tappet cover isnt leaking on either of them..

if you are ever thinking about swapping transmissions to an electronic trans, the 24 valve will be better for that.. the 12 valve is a nice all mechanical engine but pretty slow in a bus...
I definitely like the Allison 2000 with the 24V. RPMs are a lot lower.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercury351c View Post
Iím leaning towards the 12v as well. It does feel like it struggles to get over 65mph at around 3200 rpm through.
Like Truthseeker says, that is kinda high. What is the temp looking like? Also the surge tank is around $400 and some aftermarket are metal.


I have a bus with the 12V 6B5.9 and one with the 24V ISB5.9. They both start very easily and run great. The 12V would be easier to diagnose any issues since there are no sensors to go bad. However, with a scanner you could get some idea what is happening on the 24V.

Since cadillackid pointed to block number 53, what do you have? Check it on the driverís side. The KDP issue bugs me for the 12V and I would have to have it taken care of before it went on the road.

The 24V lift pump issue should have been taken care of through the campaign 0504 and you should have a label somewhere saying so. But I would definitely install a fuel pressure gauge regardless to guard against future problems. You may also have a reman fuel pump.

The bus information you posted for the 1999 references to an 24V ISB 175hp. What is the hp of the í98? My 12V is 190hp and 24V is 205hp.
The info from BB is that the í99 has hydraulic brakes. Is that correct and what does the í98 have?
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Old 10-02-2020, 04:20 PM   #14
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Belton SC
Posts: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by BamaBus View Post
Wouldn't the market for the 12V make it easier to sell to more people? I am hoping so.



I definitely like the Allison 2000 with the 24V. RPMs are a lot lower.



Like Truthseeker says, that is kinda high. What is the temp looking like? Also the surge tank is around $400 and some aftermarket are metal.


I have a bus with the 12V 6B5.9 and one with the 24V ISB5.9. They both start very easily and run great. The 12V would be easier to diagnose any issues since there are no sensors to go bad. However, with a scanner you could get some idea what is happening on the 24V.

Since cadillackid pointed to block number 53, what do you have? Check it on the driverís side. The KDP issue bugs me for the 12V and I would have to have it taken care of before it went on the road.

The 24V lift pump issue should have been taken care of through the campaign 0504 and you should have a label somewhere saying so. But I would definitely install a fuel pressure gauge regardless to guard against future problems. You may also have a reman fuel pump.

The bus information you posted for the 1999 references to an 24V ISB 175hp. What is the hp of the í98? My 12V is 190hp and 24V is 205hp.
The info from BB is that the í99 has hydraulic brakes. Is that correct and what does the í98 have?
I have seen the metal tanks, and with shipping itís about 450. I will check to see if the 24v has a 53 block at some point this weekend. I am a mechanic by trade Iím pretty sure I can do the pin replacement repair my self and will definitely do that. Both busses have hydro boost hydrolic brakes. I donít see a placard for the Cummins engine on the 98
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Old 10-02-2020, 08:45 PM   #15
Skoolie
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Central Alabama
Posts: 187
Year: 1998
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: TC/2000
Engine: 5.9 Cummins 12-valve
Rated Cap: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercury351c View Post
I am a mechanic by trade Iím pretty sure I can do the pin replacement repair my self and will definitely do that.
Fill out your profile. If we're neighbors, you can do mine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercury351c View Post
I donít see a placard for the Cummins engine on the 98
You may already know this, but for your own reference take BB vin to Unit Dashboard | Portal. It may have the serial numbers of the engine and trans.
The label of the engine should be on the side of the front cover. Also can get info with the engine serial at Cummins Parts
Which ever one you keep register the engine at QuickServe Online.
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Old 10-05-2020, 05:01 PM   #16
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Belton SC
Posts: 12
Well, thanks everybody for the input. I believe I have decided to go with bus #1 simply because of the extra head room and more mechanical drive train. I understand that every thing has weak points and most can be avoided with proper maintenance, which I am a stickler for. So thanks again everybody. Hopefully I will see you guys over on the build thread once I get started.
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Old 10-05-2020, 08:56 PM   #17
Bus Nut
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: topeka kansas
Posts: 826
Year: 1954
Coachwork: wayne
Chassis: old f500- new 2005 f-450
Engine: cummins 12 valve
Rated Cap: 20? five rows of 4?
12 valve and modifications....

dont spin that engine around 3900 rpm to 4200 rpm. I think you will get in some harmonics that can break the crankshaft... go through that rpm range and it will live but dont hang in that area.

You are probably defuelling the 12 valve at that 3100 rpm range.. I am a little surprised you can even get there... change governor springs and you will be able to use the rpm.... change the turbo and rear gears and you can stay below the 3000 rpm level. I added an ats 3000 used at $800.... up to 1700 rpm the stock turbo give more boost.... after 1700 up to around 2700 more the ats3000 give more poop... if you have the fuel to run it... more turbo and light on the injector will help to keep exhaust clean. also the K27 and maybe the "killer b" turbos are good candidates for all around.

I was advised by many many many people that the stock motor is good for 325-350 with no fancy stuff.... when you push the ignition timing up and boost up past 35 psi or so... head studs should be done... after 450 or so consider pulling the head and o-rings.

If you spin it past 3000 rpm .. put in heavier valve springs. dont need much more pressure... general use is springs with around 60lb more pressure than stock.

william
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Old 10-06-2020, 04:08 AM   #18
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 14,415
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
I never knew you could spin those that fast, I thought valve float was around 3 K on stock springs.. it’s gotta be a noise maker up there

Cool stuff
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