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Old 10-13-2019, 06:15 PM   #21
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Our safety inspections here in the states are done by auto and truck repair places, and of course they have a vested interest in a vehicle not passing, so they can do the "repairs" for you at a nice cost, and profit for them. Some states are lucky to not have inspections.
Since I bought my first car in 1979 I have lived in places with no safety or smog inspections except one modest stretch when I had to have my car smog tested.

I currently live in Eastern Washington. No smog or safety inspections for me
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Old 10-13-2019, 07:03 PM   #22
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Since I bought my first car in 1979 I have lived in places with no safety or smog inspections except one modest stretch when I had to have my car smog tested.

I currently live in Eastern Washington. No smog or safety inspections for me
My first car was 1989 in Albuquerque and it only passed emissions inspection because my mechanic stuck the sensor up his own car's tailpipe.
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Old 10-13-2019, 08:07 PM   #23
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Our safety inspections here in the states are done by auto and truck repair places, and of course they have a vested interest in a vehicle not passing, so they can do the "repairs" for you at a nice cost, and profit for them. Some states are lucky to not have inspections.
approved mechanics in licensed shops do the safeties - ICBC inspectors do the conversion inspections - I guess loss of income from bus to motorhome insurance is more important than ------- it's all owned by the government and ICBC are many millions in dept because of poor management
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Old 10-13-2019, 08:33 PM   #24
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welding to the frame is in general a no no. The properties of the steel will be altered by the heating and cooling.Stress cracking can occur more easily.


The manufacturer specifies if welding is allowed and where and how.

later J
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Old 10-13-2019, 08:56 PM   #25
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Found this comment on a forum thread. I can't vouch for the cigarette thing, but they know their beam Physics, at least.

Quote:
Think of the frame as a truss. The flanges ARE the strength of the frame. The web is the "spacer" between the two flanges. If your frame had no flanges, and was just the web, then it's strength would be dependant on the 1/4" or 3/8" thickness of the edge. Once the tensile strength of the edge had been exceeded, then the frame would rip apart like a sheet of paper. With a flange on the edge, then you have 2 or 3 inches of metal that must be ripped apart at one time to break the frame. All frame design, trucks and trailers, are built around the basics of channel, H beam, or I beam. All of this design is centered around, thicker web to space the flanges further apart to reduce the moment of stress to gain strength, or do you use a thicker flange with a smaller web to gain the same strength. A flange drilled on top of the frame, where it may only be subjected to compression would last longer than a frame that was drilled on the bottom flange where it is under tension. I've seen a lot of frames broken on dump trucks, and all breaks started at a weld, some as small as tacking a piece of angle to the web for a bracket. A frame shop here that repairs a lot of butcher jobs from big name builders told me that the heat of a cigarette is too hot for a frame rail.
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Old 10-13-2019, 09:10 PM   #26
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Found this comment on a forum thread. I can't vouch for the cigarette thing, but they know their beam Physics, at least.
I watched a certified shop extend a truck frame, and a lot more was involved than tacking another piece onto the end of the frame - if I remember correctly there was preheating involved, I imagine to avoid the shock of heating one narrow section of the frame, then there were massive 'fishplates' on either side of the frame with row after row of bolts through the fishplates and truck frame - I had no idea the job of extending a frame was so involved - I had a minuscule repair done to the lift arm on my bucket truck - it only showed up on the nondestructive test - you couldn't see it under the paint - specs called for a welder with special skills, preheating the area to a set degree, while keeping the surrounding area cool - a $200 repair for a crack that couldn't be seen with your eye
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Old 10-13-2019, 09:17 PM   #27
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I am not too excited to read this.....

I took one of my trucks to a local shop to have a fifth wheel hitch installed. As I had removed it from another truck I asked the repair shop to use new Grade 8 hardware on everything.

I got the truck back and found that they had welded the brackets to the frame. Very pretty welds but not what I had asked for.
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Old 10-13-2019, 10:03 PM   #28
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Stories like this is why I do my own work. I was reading about this sort of thing a few weeks ago, medium duty trucks having frame failures due to welding ruining the heat temper... I might be a crappy welder but I won't weld my frame!
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Old 10-14-2019, 08:29 AM   #29
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You CAN weld a frame... you just have to know where it's allowed and where it isn't.


Many frames I've seen specify no flange welding or drilling but the sides of the rails are free game. Typically though, bolting is a better choice. In many cases, the strength is higher and it allows for a bit of give which reduces the likelihood of cracks forming.


Most hardened frames will have the rails clearly marked with a tag that says "No Welding or drilling frame flanges"


When in doubt, contact the manufacturer.
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Old 10-14-2019, 08:38 AM   #30
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Under the federal specs it states not to drill or weld without contacting the chassis manufacturer.

I had to drill a couple holes in my truck's frame recently to install a hitch. Man is it hard to drill through a frame!
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Old 10-19-2019, 04:10 PM   #31
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I would call the inspector's office and ask if the welds will be a problem. If so, your welder needs to fix his mistake at his own time and expense. Or you need a new welder.
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Old 10-19-2019, 04:20 PM   #32
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I would call the inspector's office and ask if the welds will be a problem. If so, your welder needs to fix his mistake at his own time and expense. Or you need a new welder.
Well, I need a new welder no matter what. But in this case, at least, he didn't actually screw up by welding anything to the chassis rail.
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Old 10-19-2019, 05:10 PM   #33
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While it may be true that the manufacturer may provide specifications for an approved welding procedure for their frame channel, joint design and operator skill will contribute to the success of the repair or modification. I think the best approach in all cases is to consider frame steel unweldable. And I bet all manufacturers will tell you that cannot drill holes in the frame, either. Clamp it!
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Old 10-20-2019, 02:21 PM   #34
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Is there any chassis frame construction drawing out there. This would be helpful because we are also preparing to replace some of the floor sections.
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Old 10-20-2019, 02:29 PM   #35
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My experience has been that drilling holes in the vertical section of a frame rail is ok. You should not use the flange as an attachment location. Asking permission from the manufacturer will almost always result in a negative reply. Why? Because it's too easy for them to just say no, and therefore not have any liability to the end user.
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Old 10-20-2019, 02:35 PM   #36
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Is there any chassis frame construction drawing out there. This would be helpful because we are also preparing to replace some of the floor sections.
Well, you'd want diagrams of the structure of the body floor (which is sitting atop the chassis rails) not the chassis. And the existing body structure is almost more of a curiosity, since you can't really repair it in the same manner as it was built originally.

Here's a video showing how the floor of an International is put together:

My build thread also shows some bus bits that, um, aren't normally seen.
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Old 10-20-2019, 08:23 PM   #37
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So, I noticed looking at this frame the guy welded in, that while he didn't weld anything to the chassis rail, he was welding something that was in direct contact with it (the new steel is resting directly on the chassis rail). So there would have been at least some heat from the welding transferred to the chassis flange. Any concerns?

I'm going to have to do some additional welding on this frame, but I'm going to lift it up and have pads underneath and a fire blanket over the chassis rail before I do.
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Old 10-20-2019, 09:12 PM   #38
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So, I noticed looking at this frame the guy welded in, that while he didn't weld anything to the chassis rail, he was welding something that was in direct contact with it (the new steel is resting directly on the chassis rail). So there would have been at least some heat from the welding transferred to the chassis flange. Any concerns?

I'm going to have to do some additional welding on this frame, but I'm going to lift it up and have pads underneath and a fire blanket over the chassis rail before I do.
Nah, I wouldn't sweat it man.
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Old 10-20-2019, 09:44 PM   #39
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What entity has the power to fail an inspection on your build? I would not have a problem welding stuff to the frame. I would have a problem if that welding secures the cabin to the frame.
dot rules do not allow any drilling or welding on frame flanges. the top and bottom part. if you look at any truck there are no holes there just on the side. the reason is they can fail and your stuck with a broken frame.
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Old 10-20-2019, 09:59 PM   #40
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dot rules do not allow any drilling or welding on frame flanges. the top and bottom part. if you look at any truck there are no holes there just on the side. the reason is they can fail and your stuck with a broken frame.
I specified elsewhere about not attaching anything to flanges, only to the sides.
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