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Old 04-01-2016, 07:54 PM   #1
Mini-Skoolie
 
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What is an "in frame" and what does it entail?

Hello!
I was talking to a person about buying buses, and they were talking about how "in frames" should be done around 200k miles. I asked him what that was, and he told me it meant overhauling the engine. I did not want to ask what that was, so I'm asking all you wonderful mechanically inclined peeps. So what do they do to a bus that gets an over haul? Any idea for the cost of something like that?
Thanks
Virginia
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Old 04-01-2016, 08:12 PM   #2
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It means to rebuild the head, cylinder sleeves, rings, injectors and seals with the motor still in the bus. A complete rebuild involves pulling the motor, replacing the crank, pistons, wrist pins etc.
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Old 04-01-2016, 08:24 PM   #3
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Some engines are a wet sleeve design meaning the have cylinder liners that can be removed and replaced with new ones that have new pistons in them. This can be done while still in the truck or bus, in frame. A 5.9 Cummins engine has to be pulled out, disassembled, sent to the machine shop to be bored out for new pistons.

This is what an in-frame kit looks like.

International Navistar DT466E Inframe-Overhaul Engine Rebuild Kit
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Old 04-01-2016, 08:30 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crazycal View Post
Some engines are a wet sleeve design meaning the have cylinder liners that can be removed and replaced with new ones that have new pistons in them. This can be done while still in the truck or bus, in frame. A 5.9 Cummins engine has to be pulled out, disassembled, sent to the machine shop to be bored out for new pistons.

This is what an in-frame kit looks like.

International Navistar DT466E Inframe-Overhaul Engine Rebuild Kit
Good call CC. I just took for granted and thought about my Cat motor. I didn't even think about those without sleeves.
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Old 04-01-2016, 08:38 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crazycal View Post
Some engines are a wet sleeve design meaning the have cylinder liners that can be removed and replaced with new ones that have new pistons in them. This can be done while still in the truck or bus, in frame. A 5.9 Cummins engine has to be pulled out, disassembled, sent to the machine shop to be bored out for new pistons.

This is what an in-frame kit looks like.

International Navistar DT466E Inframe-Overhaul Engine Rebuild Kit
Pretty sure the Cummins 5.9 is a wet sleeve design, making it eligible for in frame rebuilds.
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Old 04-01-2016, 08:49 PM   #6
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Pretty sure the Cummins 5.9 is a wet sleeve design, making it eligible for in frame rebuilds.

Pretty sure its not. Prove me wrong and I will eat my shoe...oh wait, they kind of stink something fierce.
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Old 04-01-2016, 09:11 PM   #7
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Why would they sell these, then? https://dieselrebuildkits.com/k2/die...ne-rebuild-kit
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Old 04-01-2016, 10:00 PM   #8
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Since a bus doesn't have a cross member, I guess you can pull the pan and access the crank and con rods. Maybe if you want to slap in new pistons after honing your cylinders. The kit doesn't say liners. If you damage the cylinder wall, I promise you that you will be pulling that block. So yes, I guess you can do an in frame but that doesn't mean it has liners or sleeves. Here is a list of parts from the kit you linked to. Look at the ISX kit, it lists liners.

includes:

6 x Piston Crown

6 x Piston Skirt

6 x Piston Ring-Sets

6 x Piston Pins & Retainers

1 x Head Gasket Set

1 x Main Bearing Set (Std.)

1 x Rod Bearing Set (Std.)

1 x Thrust Washer Set

1 x Set of Injector O-Rings

1 x Rocker Cover Gasket

1 x Oil Pan Gasket


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Old 04-01-2016, 10:40 PM   #9
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Well crap. I did some online research. 6bt's are not sleeved. My appologies.
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Old 04-02-2016, 12:19 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DT Rutledge View Post
Pretty sure the Cummins 5.9 is a wet sleeve design, making it eligible for in frame rebuilds.
It is not. That's one of the reasons why some of us prefer the DT's.
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Old 04-02-2016, 02:38 AM   #11
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Thank you for the replies! I just learned a lot! I have a couple of follow up questions. The link above costs $1100-1200 for parts. Anyone know how much labor costs for an in frame could be?
Also, this guy was saying that since an in frame is one of the most costly maintenance, he thought it may be more worthwhile to find a bus who had already had a in frame, even if there were more miles or engine time. My question is, if I buy a bus that has had an in frame, how long till the next huge maintenance?
Thanks
Virginia
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Old 04-02-2016, 04:03 AM   #12
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I don't consider an in-frame as maintenance. I think of maintenance as oil changes, fuel and air filter changes, transmission service, brakes and the like. Maybe others see it different. I think of an in frame as an engine rebuild.

You are definitely better off with a bus that has had an in frame done.
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Old 04-02-2016, 08:21 AM   #13
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similar question here.....

i see rebuilt a cummin 6bt for ~ $3500
low mileage used 6bt-s for about $1500-2000


so, would you rebuild the motor you have or simply swap with one of the above options?
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Old 04-02-2016, 08:23 AM   #14
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If you've got a Cummins, then you're pulling the motor. Rebuilt > Used.
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Old 04-02-2016, 10:16 AM   #15
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Thanks! Be patient with me as I have some more follow-up questions for this thread. Locally here in southeast texas, the vast majority of buses available are all FE buses, mostly all International, either with AmTran, Bluebird or Thomas chassis. I have been told to stay away from the DT360 engines. I have a choice of a group of 1990 mixed Internationals and some 1995/1996 mixed internationals. If I have a choice of the year for the same engine that has had an in frame, should I care about 1990 versus 1996?
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Old 04-02-2016, 11:24 AM   #16
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Why avoid the DT360? Its as good as the 5.9 Cummins but capable of in-frame rebuild. Durable little suckers that do okay on fuel economy too.
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Old 04-02-2016, 11:42 AM   #17
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95/96 had a Bosch P-pump if they weren't a DT466E. That would be my choice.
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Old 04-02-2016, 02:32 PM   #18
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Excellent choice East coast CB, I too like the Dt's.
Fast, cheap, & easy to find parts!
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