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Old 12-29-2019, 10:22 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by Truthseeker4449 View Post
I'm also interested in lightweight design as my build is more road trip oriented than living full time in the bus. Once I get my floor stripped down I want to remove the ceiling and hopefully the inner wall panels.
I found a YT video yesterday about a guy altering a boat. He used a bunch of stuff called King Starboard...looked like interesting material.
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Old 12-29-2019, 10:57 AM   #42
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I found a YT video yesterday about a guy altering a boat. He used a bunch of stuff called King Starboard...looked like interesting material.
https://www.boatoutfitters.com/cut-t...king-starboard

Indeed it does look like interesting material, the example pictures here quite literally show it being used for anything and everything but the hull itself. $132 for 4.5'x8' sheet 1/4" thick is more than I would like to pay tho.
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Old 12-29-2019, 01:17 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by o1marc View Post
"pound for pound wood is stronger than steel."

In what universe?
the word "stronger" is a relative term. What is "stronger"?


Taoists ask "what is stronger, your teeth or your tongue?" Then thay ask "what is still around and fully functional when you are 80 years old?"


What is stronger, a bamboo pole or a stone column? One will bend without breaking, the other can beat the first to a pulp.



Even when you look at only steel, there are many different properties that all together compose the concept of "stronger". Want to make a knife? What do you want? An edge that you can get razor sharp? An edge that stays sharp? A blade that won't crack? A blade that won't dent? A blade that won't corrode? A blade that won't stain? They are all different properties, and are not mutually compatible. For instance, a blade that won't dent will be "harder" and will stay sharp longer, but that means more brittle, and more prone to cracking. And a harder metal won't get as razor sharp for the same reason, on a micro-scale. I just made a relay-removal tool out of a bread knife by bending 0.25" of the tip at a 90 angle. My hunting knife would crack if I tried that.


Wood may be a great building material in many respects, but the joints become the weak spot. Them old-timey barn builders (think Amish today) build structures with tongue'n'groove joints held with wide-pin wooden dowels. Today we use nails and screws, because they are fast and cheap, but they are much lower in quality and more prone to break. Almost all the wooden furniture I have ever seen fall apart, short of being smashed with a sledgehammer, breaks at the joints. Old table legs get wobbly, at least.


Mild steel flexes! Sure it will crack at an extreme point, but it flexes far more than wood. And a proper weld is not going to crack any more than the main steel "beam" itself.


Building my shelves' frames out of mild (cold-rolled) steel gives me a "stronger" end-product, IMO, based on the type stresses it will encounter in its life.


I can replace a 12 or 13 wooden board, likely not a "hardwood" board for cost purposes, with a stick of 1"1"0.125" steel. If I supported a 10' length of both of these at both ends of each, setting the wood so that it sits on a 1" side, I could walk across the wood with it flexing a bit and springing back without it breaking (especially the 1"3"), but the steel would bend and not spring back. Which is stronger? Increase the weight, and the wood breaks, but the steel doesn't, and can be bent back into shape. Which is stronger? Which weighs more? Which takes less space? Which is cheaper?


Then try to put those kind of extreme stresses on a wooden joint held together with corner-brackets, or worse, just nailed/screwed together, and watch the wood crack or the screws/nails pull out. Then try a welded steel joint.


And just try to find a 20' length of 13 or 24 now-a-days. Need a run that long? yet another joint.....(if only it were the other kind of joint!)
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Old 12-29-2019, 01:38 PM   #44
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"Mild steel flexes! Sure it will crack at an extreme point, but it flexes far more than wood."


I guess this is not a properly qualified statement. Steel flexes more than wood at a given tensile strength (or something like that) it seems to me. Steel will bend quickly, which is not "flexing". Wood is more flexible, in this sense. But then suddenly, wood cracks - game over. Steel keeps playin'
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Old 12-29-2019, 05:02 PM   #45
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The beautiful thing about building a Skoolie, is there are no rules. ... The only thing I have NOT seen yet, is someone who converted to a Hybrid Drive for their Skoolie!
A biodiesel plug-in hybrid skoolie would be an awesome project. I've been thinking....would you buy two wrecked plug-in hybrid cars from Copart and raid them for parts?
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Old 12-29-2019, 07:10 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by Mountain Gnome View Post
the word "stronger" is a relative term. What is "stronger"?


Taoists ask "what is stronger, your teeth or your tongue?" Then thay ask "what is still around and fully functional when you are 80 years old?"


What is stronger, a bamboo pole or a stone column? One will bend without breaking, the other can beat the first to a pulp.



Even when you look at only steel, there are many different properties that all together compose the concept of "stronger". Want to make a knife? What do you want? An edge that you can get razor sharp? An edge that stays sharp? A blade that won't crack? A blade that won't dent? A blade that won't corrode? A blade that won't stain? They are all different properties, and are not mutually compatible. For instance, a blade that won't dent will be "harder" and will stay sharp longer, but that means more brittle, and more prone to cracking. And a harder metal won't get as razor sharp for the same reason, on a micro-scale. I just made a relay-removal tool out of a bread knife by bending 0.25" of the tip at a 90 angle. My hunting knife would crack if I tried that.


Wood may be a great building material in many respects, but the joints become the weak spot. Them old-timey barn builders (think Amish today) build structures with tongue'n'groove joints held with wide-pin wooden dowels. Today we use nails and screws, because they are fast and cheap, but they are much lower in quality and more prone to break. Almost all the wooden furniture I have ever seen fall apart, short of being smashed with a sledgehammer, breaks at the joints. Old table legs get wobbly, at least.


Mild steel flexes! Sure it will crack at an extreme point, but it flexes far more than wood. And a proper weld is not going to crack any more than the main steel "beam" itself.


Building my shelves' frames out of mild (cold-rolled) steel gives me a "stronger" end-product, IMO, based on the type stresses it will encounter in its life.


I can replace a 12 or 13 wooden board, likely not a "hardwood" board for cost purposes, with a stick of 1"1"0.125" steel. If I supported a 10' length of both of these at both ends of each, setting the wood so that it sits on a 1" side, I could walk across the wood with it flexing a bit and springing back without it breaking (especially the 1"3"), but the steel would bend and not spring back. Which is stronger? Increase the weight, and the wood breaks, but the steel doesn't, and can be bent back into shape. Which is stronger? Which weighs more? Which takes less space? Which is cheaper?


Then try to put those kind of extreme stresses on a wooden joint held together with corner-brackets, or worse, just nailed/screwed together, and watch the wood crack or the screws/nails pull out. Then try a welded steel joint.


And just try to find a 20' length of 13 or 24 now-a-days. Need a run that long? yet another joint.....(if only it were the other kind of joint!)



Nicely put, but the Taoists bit was cool.


I went down to Charleston S. Carolina after hurricane Huggo, I think it was in 91. I worked on a number of 2 story historic homes. They were all balloon framed and had lasted through many hurricanes. For those that don't know, modern 2 story homes are almost exclusively platform framed and are typically destroyed or washed away in a hurricane.

In balloon framing the studs go from the first floor all the way to the roof and the second floor is hung off of the studs. The ceiling heighths were 10-12 feet tall so the studs would be rough sawn 4x4s around 20-24 feet long with out a single knot .... well, ok, maybe a few tiny 1/4 inch knots).

Charlston is sea level and the tide would come in every day, so the houses were built on brick/stone piers and beam foundations 3-4 feet off the ground so the tide would flow under the houses. I crawled under 1 house and the beams were amazing. 8"x14" by 20-30 feet long wthout knots.

That is the difference between old growth lumber and the crap we get today at the big box stores. Likewise, workmanship was much better then also (unbelievably better and done with all hand tools).
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Old 12-30-2019, 04:53 PM   #47
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I love this and I agree. I've been a home remodeler for 34 years and it took me five bus conversions to figure this out.
A bus is not a house, but people feel comfy being surrounded by what they are used to.
Getting over that is a psychological thing that takes some time to get over.

I like industrial minimalism in a way, but I found myself somewhat depressed when I was traveling and living in the back of my 24' reefer, surrounded by all my tools. it was like living in a large shed. so I put everything in the belly and roof. That was so much better! I found myself gravitating towards making it look like a room in a house again. so, like an efficiency apartment, I was living with a bed, kitchenette, bathroom. which was fine, but I was still getting stuck in the mud and snow. Plus I was getting bad fuel economy. Even though I had a 5.9 cummins, I was only getting 8-9 mpg. 32' long and hard to be stealth...
I loved the 4" insulation on six sides and I was cozy even in CO, I sold it after one year and decided to save up and build what a really want.
A 4x4 rig with diff locks and great articulation. I want a ton of power on the hills and the ability to go from the drivers seat directly to the back to crash out. Everything is a tradeoff though and I'm finding the cost difficult.
I bought a Dodge Ram Cummins 4x4 and a trailer to try a different approach. 18mpg for 2000.00+ 24' fifth wheel trailer for free from OfferUp, but the truck (not the Cummins) had 74 different problems and I changed the transmission twice. The trailer needed a complete remodel and was terrible off road (of course). Sold the trailer for 450.00 and decided to built a bumper pull. Sold the truck for 4500.00 and got an F150 4x4 and a 6x10 enclosed trailer for 2400.00. I thought maybe I'll just build that out and be happy but, my girlfriend is a Diva and I need to switch to "Glamping".

Wore out from all that I decided to just buy a Hayabusa and travel on a motorcycle with a tent plus Marriott. Talk about extreme! on a 5000.00 40 day trip to Seattle I froze my ass off and got 6 speeding tickets and was all by myself.
Now, with 2500.00 worth of fines hanging over my head I have to work just to pay those. So, back to the drawing board I bought a Mini CooperS Supercharged 6 speed manual to flip, but then I'm like hey, I wonder if all 6'2" of me can sleep in the back and I can but I'm spoiled by being able to walk around in my rigs. Pacing around like a captain of my ship, figuring out what my next move is going to be. I'm also spoiled by hot showers, a propane fridge and tempurpedic bed.
bouncing around between friends houses is great, but that also gets old. The poor fuel economy is balanced out by having to spend 45-84 dollars per night at a Marriott on the other nights, or a tent. I have a relative that works there so, most of the time it's "only" 45.00. Kinda cheap but, a huge disadvantage is that I have to pack all my stuff and spend the time checking in and taking elevators, walking down long hallways to the room. Me no like that...I'm spoiled.
I wrote a poem called "I Like Big Busses and I cannot Lie". I can leave a copy of that here if you want.

TMI
My point being, while the type of material you use for your build out is important for weight savings (lowering your MPG and making your interior look more modern and cool), there are a lot other things to consider. Of course you know this, but I'm always on a quest to find the perfect solution for this Nomadic dilemma.

The closest thing I found that would be awesome is this older couple I found in Leavenworth, Washington. They were living and traveling in a Chatlet...converted to 4x4 by a specialty company in Canada. They were very proud of "only" spending 95 Grand, holy ****! Back to the drawing board!

I've been a major off road fan my whole life and I'm an extreme Wheeler. I've built a mini Monster truck out of a '66 Chevy and owned over 34 4x4 trucks (5 of them jeep wranglers). Why don't I just take my life skills and built a custom overland rig? At Burning Man and other festivals, I've asked a lot of people that own these, how they did it. The usual answer = throw big money at it + big time, big effort and big energy.

Is there a cost efficient alternative?
Is there a turn key rig I would be happy with?
Do I have to spend ten years of my life building one from scratch?

A very gifted artist friend of mine purchased a brand new F-550 4x4 Chassis and built a beautiful rig. Is that the answer?

I've been struggling with this dilemma for over ten years. Help?

Chris
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Old 12-30-2019, 08:42 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freebusdude View Post
I love this and I agree. I've been a home remodeler for 34 years and it took me five bus conversions to figure this out.
A bus is not a house, but people feel comfy being surrounded by what they are used to.
Getting over that is a psychological thing that takes some time to get over.

I like industrial minimalism in a way, but I found myself somewhat depressed when I was traveling and living in the back of my 24' reefer, surrounded by all my tools. it was like living in a large shed. so I put everything in the belly and roof. That was so much better! I found myself gravitating towards making it look like a room in a house again. so, like an efficiency apartment, I was living with a bed, kitchenette, bathroom. which was fine, but I was still getting stuck in the mud and snow. Plus I was getting bad fuel economy. Even though I had a 5.9 cummins, I was only getting 8-9 mpg. 32' long and hard to be stealth...
I loved the 4" insulation on six sides and I was cozy even in CO, I sold it after one year and decided to save up and build what a really want.
A 4x4 rig with diff locks and great articulation. I want a ton of power on the hills and the ability to go from the drivers seat directly to the back to crash out. Everything is a tradeoff though and I'm finding the cost difficult.
I bought a Dodge Ram Cummins 4x4 and a trailer to try a different approach. 18mpg for 2000.00+ 24' fifth wheel trailer for free from OfferUp, but the truck (not the Cummins) had 74 different problems and I changed the transmission twice. The trailer needed a complete remodel and was terrible off road (of course). Sold the trailer for 450.00 and decided to built a bumper pull. Sold the truck for 4500.00 and got an F150 4x4 and a 6x10 enclosed trailer for 2400.00. I thought maybe I'll just build that out and be happy but, my girlfriend is a Diva and I need to switch to "Glamping".

Wore out from all that I decided to just buy a Hayabusa and travel on a motorcycle with a tent plus Marriott. Talk about extreme! on a 5000.00 40 day trip to Seattle I froze my ass off and got 6 speeding tickets and was all by myself.
Now, with 2500.00 worth of fines hanging over my head I have to work just to pay those. So, back to the drawing board I bought a Mini CooperS Supercharged 6 speed manual to flip, but then I'm like hey, I wonder if all 6'2" of me can sleep in the back and I can but I'm spoiled by being able to walk around in my rigs. Pacing around like a captain of my ship, figuring out what my next move is going to be. I'm also spoiled by hot showers, a propane fridge and tempurpedic bed.
bouncing around between friends houses is great, but that also gets old. The poor fuel economy is balanced out by having to spend 45-84 dollars per night at a Marriott on the other nights, or a tent. I have a relative that works there so, most of the time it's "only" 45.00. Kinda cheap but, a huge disadvantage is that I have to pack all my stuff and spend the time checking in and taking elevators, walking down long hallways to the room. Me no like that...I'm spoiled.
I wrote a poem called "I Like Big Busses and I cannot Lie". I can leave a copy of that here if you want.

TMI
My point being, while the type of material you use for your build out is important for weight savings (lowering your MPG and making your interior look more modern and cool), there are a lot other things to consider. Of course you know this, but I'm always on a quest to find the perfect solution for this Nomadic dilemma.

The closest thing I found that would be awesome is this older couple I found in Leavenworth, Washington. They were living and traveling in a Chatlet...converted to 4x4 by a specialty company in Canada. They were very proud of "only" spending 95 Grand, holy ****! Back to the drawing board!

I've been a major off road fan my whole life and I'm an extreme Wheeler. I've built a mini Monster truck out of a '66 Chevy and owned over 34 4x4 trucks (5 of them jeep wranglers). Why don't I just take my life skills and built a custom overland rig? At Burning Man and other festivals, I've asked a lot of people that own these, how they did it. The usual answer = throw big money at it + big time, big effort and big energy.

Is there a cost efficient alternative?
Is there a turn key rig I would be happy with?
Do I have to spend ten years of my life building one from scratch?

A very gifted artist friend of mine purchased a brand new F-550 4x4 Chassis and built a beautiful rig. Is that the answer?

I've been struggling with this dilemma for over ten years. Help?

Chris



Hey, I went deer hunting at Pagosa Springs back in 1967 (when I was 17), took a plane from Dallas-Fort Worth to Durango (carry on was a Winchester 30-30 & backpack - can't do that anymore), had to walk/hitch from Durango to Pagosa Springs because I missed the bus. Had to walk at least 30 miles - hard to get a ride carrying a rifle - got into town just in time to buy my hunting license & grab a burger before everything closed.



My uncle was supposed to meet the bus that I missed and I had no idea where their camp was. I took off walking up into the mountains, it started snowing, had to keep walking to keep from freezing, finally about 10 pm a pickup came by and gave me a ride and took me to the first camp and dropped me off. There was a campfire with a few men sitting around eating deer meat and drinking beer. They were surprised to see a kid walking up to their camp and I was even more surprised to find out that one of them was my uncle.


All that trouble and I didn't even get a deer. My uncle got an elk, but I all I got was a few stories. Almost got shot twice, there was too many stupid wannabe hunters. Never went back.
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Old 12-31-2019, 02:56 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Truthseeker4449 View Post
https://www.boatoutfitters.com/cut-t...king-starboard

Indeed it does look like interesting material, the example pictures here quite literally show it being used for anything and everything but the hull itself. $132 for 4.5'x8' sheet 1/4" thick is more than I would like to pay tho.
I have used Starboard in a boat and in the garden. It is great to work with using my wood working tools. It is impervious to water.

The downside is that it is fairly heavy.
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Old 12-31-2019, 11:46 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by freebusdude View Post
A bus is not a house, but people feel comfy being surrounded by what they are used to.
+1 Almost all the time.. people stuff a house interior into a bus. I notice people that have traveled a lot of like on the road will lay things out for a life they a currently living.
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Old 01-03-2020, 06:08 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by freebusdude View Post
Is there a cost efficient alternative?
Is there a turn key rig I would be happy with?
Do I have to spend ten years of my life building one from scratch?

Cost efficient and 'turnkey' 4x4 camper with passthrough from the cab to camper in mechanically decent condition are somewhat mutually exclusive, but not impossible.


I imagine you are already familiar with the expeditionportal.com classified section



4x4 sunrader (15-40k), Provan tiger (6-40k), used early 2000's sportsmobile 20-80k), Ambulance or short bus conversion with an aftermarket Ujoint 4x4 conversion (5-20k), or buying a custom overland camper build used are some options that come to mind.
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Old 01-04-2020, 09:16 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dzl_ View Post
Cost efficient and 'turnkey' 4x4 camper with passthrough from the cab to camper in mechanically decent condition are somewhat mutually exclusive, but not impossible.


I imagine you are already familiar with the expeditionportal.com classified section



4x4 sunrader (15-40k), Provan tiger (6-40k), used early 2000's sportsmobile 20-80k), Ambulance or short bus conversion with an aftermarket Ujoint 4x4 conversion (5-20k), or buying a custom overland camper build used are some options that come to mind.



How much for a mule and a tent?
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Old 01-05-2020, 03:40 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by kidharris View Post
How much for a mule and a tent?

depends how many miles are on the mule
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Old 01-05-2020, 04:14 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by dzl_ View Post
depends how many miles are on the mule



enough miles to make him easy to get along with, but not enough to make him lazy. In other words broke in, but not broken
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