1964 Crown 40ft ... SuperCoach? $6500

GrandFatherTime · 04-13-2017, 10:15 PM

Hello everyone,

New(est) guy on the blo(g)ck here.
This could be the find of the century for the right person, and if you have read this far... you might be that person. If you have any knowledge at all about these Crown buses, you are likely more "skooled" than I am, so feel free to reply with any comments (good OR bad). I believe this is what's known as a Crown "supercoach"? Experts please reply?
This conversion was done by my father-in-law a few years before he became such, (approx 1984 ) and other than staying in it when we went to his place to visit, and driving it from Eager, AZ to Albuquerque, NM after his death, I know very little about it. As a truck driver of many years, I CAN tell you that the mechanics, and running gear of this bus are very sound, and absolutely bulletproof. It starts EVERY time with just a single car battery (there is space for six in compartment) It is absolutely thrilling to drive, and even without any air-ride, is smoother than you might imagine. The quality (fit and finish) of the conversion is evident throughout, and was obviously well planned and executed. (No piecemeal here)
The wife and I had every intention of cleaning her up, squirting some paint obviously, mounting up some Alcoa aluminum wheels with current date radials, and taking her cruising, but time allowances, fund availability, and priorities have changed.
I am certain that this ol' girl has a lot more to give to the right person, with the right ambition, and the right knowledge.
So... Here's the poop...
40ft, Tandem axle (walking beam), 220 Cummins "pancake" with 4 of the 6cyls "jaked", 9 speed fuller trans, two rooftop a/c units, permanent mounted LP, two forced air furnaces, stove, fridge (dual power?), twin kitchen sink, separate shower, full size washer and dryer, Generac 3000rn/4000pk XP generator. Pull out sofa, and drop down dinette up front, drop down dinette in back. Lots of storage space.
To the best of my knowledge, everything is operational, with the exception that I have never tried to use the fridge, or gotten the generator to fire.
Please feel free to contact me with any questions (I will answer to the best of my ability) or comments.
I can take more detailed pictures of specific items and e-mail them directly, but would like to kick a couple posts back and forth here first to get a consensus from the "experts".

Located in the Albuquerque, New Mexico metro area.

Asking price.... $6500.00 (offers?)

Thank you for looking... I hope you will reply, even of you are not interested in purchase.

dan-fox · 04-14-2017, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrandFatherTime

Hello everyone,

New(est) guy on the blo(g)ck here.
This could be the find of the century for the right person, and if you have read this far... you might be that person. If you have any knowledge at all about these Crown buses, you are likely more "skooled" than I am, so feel free to reply with any comments (good OR bad). I believe this is what's known as a Crown "supercoach"? Experts please reply?
This conversion was done by my father-in-law a few years before he became such, (approx 1984 ) and other than staying in it when we went to his place to visit, and driving it from Eager, AZ to Albuquerque, NM after his death, I know very little about it. As a truck driver of many years, I CAN tell you that the mechanics, and running gear of this bus are very sound, and absolutely bulletproof. It starts EVERY time with just a single car battery (there is space for six in compartment) It is absolutely thrilling to drive, and even without any air-ride, is smoother than you might imagine. The quality (fit and finish) of the conversion is evident throughout, and was obviously well planned and executed. (No piecemeal here)
The wife and I had every intention of cleaning her up, squirting some paint obviously, mounting up some Alcoa aluminum wheels with current date radials, and taking her cruising, but time allowances, fund availability, and priorities have changed.
I am certain that this ol' girl has a lot more to give to the right person, with the right ambition, and the right knowledge.
So... Here's the poop...
40ft, Tandem axle (walking beam), 220 Cummins "pancake" with 4 of the 6cyls "jaked", 9 speed fuller trans, two rooftop a/c units, permanent mounted LP, two forced air furnaces, stove, fridge (dual power?), twin kitchen sink, separate shower, full size washer and dryer, Generac 3000rn/4000pk XP generator. Pull out sofa, and drop down dinette up front, drop down dinette in back. Lots of storage space.
To the best of my knowledge, everything is operational, with the exception that I have never tried to use the fridge, or gotten the generator to fire.
Please feel free to contact me with any questions (I will answer to the best of my ability) or comments.
I can take more detailed pictures of specific items and e-mail them directly, but would like to kick a couple posts back and forth here first to get a consensus from the "experts".

Located in the Albuquerque, New Mexico metro area.

Asking price.... $6500.00 (offers?)

Thank you for looking... I hope you will reply, even of you are not interested in purchase.

Welcome! Awesome bus, right down to the shag carpet! If I could I would.

There have been quite a few newbies show up recently looking for a completed conversion. Maybe one of them will respond. That beauty should remain in the community here.

I'm not familiar with a '220 Cummins "pancake"'. Someone who is, please chime in with reputation, reliability, parts made of unobtainium, etc. Is this a rig that you would send out a newbie single mom in, or do you need to be an experienced wrench to baby this along?

Also, it's news to me that you could install jake brakes on some but not all of an engine. Interesting.

WIbluebird · 04-14-2017, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dan-fox

Welcome! Awesome bus, right down to the shag carpet! If I could I would.

There have been quite a few newbies show up recently looking for a completed conversion. Maybe one of them will respond. That beauty should remain in the community here.

I'm not familiar with a '220 Cummins "pancake"'. Someone who is, please chime in with reputation, reliability, parts made of unobtainium, etc. Is this a rig that you would send out a newbie single mom in, or do you need to be an experienced wrench to baby this along?

Also, it's news to me that you could install jake brakes on some but not all of an engine. Interesting.

The 220 Cummins is an older two stroke Diesel engine. While I'm not sure how bad the parts situation is, the fact that they haven't been manufactured for a couple decades suggests that it could be fairly difficult

PNW_Steve · 04-14-2017, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WIbluebird

The 220 Cummins is an older two stroke Diesel engine. While I'm not sure how bad the parts situation is, the fact that they haven't been manufactured for a couple decades suggests that it could be fairly difficult

AFIK: The Detroit 671 was the only 2 stroke offered in the Crown and the 220 Cummins is a 4 stroke like it's big brother the 855.

I bet there are some Crown folks out there that can give us the straight up.

cowlitzcoach · 04-14-2017, 04:07 PM

The Cummins 220 is a non-turbocharged 4-cycle of 743 cubic inches.

It has four valves per cylinder.

At one time it was the workhorse of the heavy duty truck market.

In "pancake" applications the engine is tilted 75* from vertical. It has an odd Cummins PT fuel pump. Odd in that it is mounted in front of the front cover instead of behind it. This was done because the PT pump can't be mounted straight up and down behind the front cover like every other Cummins. Which makes the front cover very valuable as it is now made of unobtainium.

Parts and service are still available from any Cummins authorized dealer. But it is probably best left to a tech who is experienced on working on the small cam engines.

As far as the coach is concerned, those are great coaches. The only real problems that need to be addressed is because they were so built for stout they had a tendency of breaking rather that bending. Body outriggers in particular have been known to break if the bus has seen a lot of off pavement travel.

The 10-wheelers are also know for breaking the frame in the rear where the bus pivots on the suspension. There is a massive amount of twist going on when going around a corner slowly. This was a particular problem on buses that were on urban/suburban routes that had a lot of slow speed corners.

The asking price is a very reasonable price. Just make sure you factor in the cost of ten new tires and tubes or new tires and rims.

GrandFatherTime · 04-14-2017, 05:52 PM

Thanks to all responders so far...
Dan-Fox - I have attached a pic of the top of the motor (which is actually on the driver's side). The "small cam" 220 Cummins actually has three separate heads. Jake actuators are installed between the "top" of the head and the valve cover. Dad put the jakes on, but due to a clearance issue, there is no actuator on the front head (2cyls). (notice shorter valve cover in picture)
When using a jake brake on any motor, there are usually three "stages" available - Low (2cyl actuated) Medium (4cyl actuated) and high (6 cyl actuated). This setup is technically only able to achieve the retarding of what would be "medium" stage on a fully equipped motor... But when you need it, medium beats the pants off of no jake at all.
Newbie single mom... Or Newbie anyone?? I might think twice (could be a handful for someone with no heavy duty experience)

Cowlitzcoach hit the nail on the head as far as motor description
Four Stroke... Not Two Stroke ETC..
I wouldn't even know where to begin to inspect for cracks or breaks, but pretty sure this one hasn't seen much if any off road use (at least since the conversion)

More from me soon... Keep the info coming!!

serpent · 04-14-2017, 10:05 PM

Nice 'OldSkool' conversion.

Can you take some underside pictures of the rear-end, and frame, over-all?

A 743 ain't no speed-demon, but with a 9-speed that thing should do fine with no turbo.

...someone better grab this.

serpent · 04-14-2017, 10:33 PM

Also, please post a better picture of the switches and dash up-front.

...nice, a Cobra 29 CB? On the driver's left side?

serpent · 04-14-2017, 10:51 PM

Build plate too please. (Usually a number on a small plate in the front passenger wheel well.)

cowlitzcoach · 04-15-2017, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by serpent

Build plate too please. (Usually a number on a small plate in the front passenger wheel well.)

The job number is the number that is on the plate in the right front fender well.

If you are standing looking at the wheel it will be on the outside edge 90* to the frame rail at about 10:00.

If you have the job number I have a friend that can most probably tell you who owned the bus originally.

deftone · 04-16-2017, 09:22 AM

Wow, I really hope someone from here pics this up.

I just got my tax check...maybe I should speak to my wife......

Robin97396 · 04-16-2017, 10:08 AM

There was a guy on here last night looking specifically for this model of bus.

GrandFatherTime · 04-16-2017, 12:48 PM

Serpent and Cowlitz,
I will take some pics tomorrow (Monday) and get them up here as soon as possible.
Thank you!

DWJoyce · 04-16-2017, 02:37 PM

Wow, I just see my grandma driving a school bus with that Fuller 9 Speed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrtfTovNohI

Really would be fun, for a while...

Crown_Guy · 04-16-2017, 05:12 PM

9 speed?? the only 9 speed Fullers I've ever seen were 13-spds with the O.D. air splits disabled due to driver misuse causing premature wearing and
maintenance costs. 13 spd are also several inches longer (and heavier) due to the O.D. gearing at the back of the case. This may be a later year modification after original build, maybe with a 5-spd Fuller, as most Crowns were for school districts in that era. A 1964 Tandem would have been one of the very first ones built, not sure when they did the first ones, but the oldest one I've driven (in '70) was about a '66-'67 heavily customized tandem for a charter company and powered by, again, one of the very first ever installed Detroit 6-71's mated to a Fuller Roadranger RTO-910 (10spd overdrive). Cummins 220's were most common in that era, but with the 40ft. added weight and slow engine speed drop between gears, it would have been very nasty in other than flat ground suburban school service. More gears were needed but there weren't all that many choices available with the state of the art. Maybe you can show the Driver area and closeups of the gear shift and it's controls. Maybe there's even an accurate transmission shift pattern data plate usually placed for the driver to see. Overall a nice Crown and conversion, more than reasonable pricing for the guy that can give it a good home, and enjoy the thrill of driving it.

PNW_Steve · 04-16-2017, 05:57 PM

Didn't they make the Eaton Roadranger 9 speeds? Could that be what is in this one?

I have never figured out the distinction between Eaton and Fuller.

I know that I have seen RT & RTO 9 speeds. The RTO being the overdrive version.

GrandFatherTime · 04-27-2017, 10:35 PM

All,
Sorry for the delay responding.
More pics. I forgot to look for the build plate... I will do that tomorrow.
Hey serpent... Not a Cobra 29... Waaay more vintage to go with the build. Realistic (Radio Shack) TRC-449 with single side band! Classic indeed.
I did get to drive her around a bit (so fun I almost want to keep her, but I still know that is not a practical choice), and believe CrownGuy is right about the tranny... not a 9 speed, but a 10. No identifying marks on dash or shifter, but ratios when driving definitely include "1-H' for 6th.

LOW
R 2 4
1 3 5
HIGH
R 7 9
6 8 10

There is no indication of cracks, or even stress on any of the outriggers or frame rails. Sliding around underneath just made me want to keep her again - she is almost too perfect to give up... again, not the practical choice.

I have had ten.. yes 10 "driving by and saw" inquiries since I last posted, (I think mostly "looky loo's" who have "never seen anything like it") and I will let the forum know if she sells. I really would rather find someone on here that really wants this type of vehicle, and knows what is involved in her "care and feeding". But, rest assured, if the new owner does not know about this forum... I will strongly advise they join ASAP.

GrandFatherTime · 04-27-2017, 10:51 PM

She sure won't take much to become truly "wow" again.

Busmanmoab · 04-28-2017, 08:50 AM

What a great looking rig sure hope it gets a good home !!

GrandFatherTime · 04-29-2017, 09:11 AM

Serpent and Cowlitzcoach,
I have located the build plate (job number). I was looking for something a little more substantial with a few more numbers, but this is it... 2105.
I then began thinking...
What is the VIN # listed on the title? It is 34859.
Any idea where I would find this number? Because the title is Arizona, and I am selling in New Mexico, I (or the new owner) will need to get a "VIN inspection" and probably need to know where to direct the inspector to look.
Thanks for your help and info!

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