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Old 11-09-2016, 04:29 PM   #1
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Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Manchester, NH
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1988 International Firefighter Bus

Hey Ya'll, I'm looking to start my very first skoolie conversion out here in NH and I was wondering if anyone here could let me know if they think any buses out there are good deals or not?

I just came across this 1988 International bus for $5,500 1988 International Bus and I like the low miles and the fact that all the seats have already been removed. I'm told it starts right up, all the wheels have been jacked up, never seen snow (good for out here in NH), is titled in Cali, not NH and registered. I am also told its an "Auto detroit motor". Does any of that make sense? It being an international and auto detroit?

Thanks in advance for your help!

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Old 11-15-2016, 04:44 PM   #2
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Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 21
Coachwork: AmTran
Chassis: International 3300
Engine: T-444E
I believe it means the bus chassis is made by International, with a Detroit Diesel engine. There are several DD engine models. I believe the 6.5L is the most common? It's supposed to be very good on fuel mileage but not the most reliable or powerful. I would request the specific engine and transmission models from the seller and research them, and hire a mechanic to look it over if you decide you're interested. You don't want to buy a bus you can't get parts for or with an engine that is unreliable if you want to drive it around for years. Diesel is way better than gas - the engines last longer and are far better on fuel economy. But they can be expensive to repair. Don't jump in without knowing what you are potentially in for!
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Old 11-15-2016, 07:58 PM   #3
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Join Date: May 2016
Location: Richmond Virginia
Posts: 932
Year: 1984
Engine: 366 Big block Chevy! :) w/ Stick shift
Welcome, glad you are here!

Well i will share that i often see busses made in the 1980s go for well under $3ooo, so the price seems super high to me.

Lots of people here have luck on govdeals and publicsurplus
I'm not much of a bidder so i bought two busses on craigslist for $1ooo. The 86 GMC now has Low miles, decent tires, and runs and drives great. Only needed new plug wires. Didnt even have to change the oil lol


Good luck!

I often say that the right bus has a way of finding us... or in some members case busses.
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Old 11-16-2016, 01:31 AM   #4
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It appears to be a pretty nice bus.

It looks like it has the 12" windows and the high roof option which is nice to have.

A bus of that vintage would most probably not have a DD under the hood. I have seen 6.9L, 7.3L, DT466, and 9.0L. That is not to say it doesn't. I am just saying I have never seen one before. If it is a DD it won't be the 8.2L Fuel Pincher. It will more likely be one of the 2-cycle engines. The most likely candidates would be the 6V-53 or 6-71. If it has the original engine in it. It is possible that it had the 9.0L and it died and someone put an 8.2L in instead of another 9.0L.

It most likely has 'S'-cam air brakes but it is possible that it might have wedge air brakes. The 'S'-cam are very common, inexpensive to repair, and brake really well. The wedge are not very common, not cheap to repair, and don't brake all that well. We had one IHC bus with wedge brakes and we always had to fight to get the brakes to pass the state inspection each year. In order to get the brakes to apply hard enough for the test we would have to adjust them to the point where the brakes were actually riding on the drums in order to get enough pressure to bear on the drums to stop the bus quick enough.

The bus has several things going for it with most of the seats removed and the bus is painted white.

As far as price is concerned, depending upon which engine it has and which brakes it has, the price isn't that bad. If it does have the 8.2L and wedge brakes I would offer half that price. If it has 'S'-cam brakes I would be a little more generous. If it has a 2-cycle DD under the hood I would discount the price more than half. I like 2-cycle DD's. They are great engines and go next to forever. But they usually use twice as much fuel as any other diesel engine of the same size, they all use/drip oil, and it is getting increasingly difficult to find people who really know how to work on them compared to the number of people who say they know how to work on them and really don't have a clue.

That bus with a 210-250 HP DT466/Allison MT643 with 'S'-cam air brakes would be worth about the asking price with that many miles and with all that has been done to it already.
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Old 11-17-2016, 01:46 PM   #5
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Red face Wow. Thanks guys!

I clearly have soooooo much to learn. I watched a youtube video blog yesterday of an automatic skoolie that burned their brakes while going down into Death Valley, and my husband and I are mountain people so ya...I definitely want to find a bus that can 1) go uphill decently and 2) go downhill safely.

So a few thoughts from all the responses...

*I had no clue that skoolies could come with different roof heights?
*How do I know or figure out which air brakes a bus has?
*Where do I look on the transmission and engine to find the model numbers?

And #Carytowncat, just how on earth did you find busses for $1k that didn't need engine or transmission work? I can't even find a car that good!

So, thank you all once again for your responses and help, it is much appreciated! This is something that's been in the back of my mind for a while, and just seems like something I really want to move ahead and do now that we moved out of our condo and have someplace to park a bus (well...it might fit in the driveway :/)
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Old 11-17-2016, 02:58 PM   #6
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Location: Georgia
Posts: 2,264
Year: 2001
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: IH
Engine: T444E
Rated Cap: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by cowlitzcoach View Post
It appears to be a pretty nice bus.

It looks like it has the 12" windows and the high roof option which is nice to have.

The bus has several things going for it with most of the seats removed and the bus is painted white.
Agreed. Plenty of headroom. Also a good point about the paint and seats being gone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cowlitzcoach View Post
A bus of that vintage would most probably not have a DD under the hood. I have seen 6.9L, 7.3L, DT466, and 9.0L. That is not to say it doesn't. I am just saying I have never seen one before. If it is a DD it won't be the 8.2L Fuel Pincher. It will more likely be one of the 2-cycle engines. The most likely candidates would be the 6V-53 or 6-71. If it has the original engine in it. It is possible that it had the 9.0L and it died and someone put an 8.2L in instead of another 9.0L.
The 9.0L was discontinued at the end of 1987, so as an '88 model, the 9.0 was not available (it could not meet '88 emissions). The same was true for the 6.9; both were replaced by the 7.3 in 1988.

I would be a bit surprised if it came from the factory with a Detroit engine, as IH spent much time and money developing their own engines (and for the most part they were pretty good engines). A Detroit could have been retrofitted, but I wouldn't think it would justify such a high asking price ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by cowlitzcoach View Post
It most likely has 'S'-cam air brakes but it is possible that it might have wedge air brakes. The 'S'-cam are very common, inexpensive to repair, and brake really well. The wedge are not very common, not cheap to repair, and don't brake all that well. We had one IHC bus with wedge brakes and we always had to fight to get the brakes to pass the state inspection each year. In order to get the brakes to apply hard enough for the test we would have to adjust them to the point where the brakes were actually riding on the drums in order to get enough pressure to bear on the drums to stop the bus quick enough.
I didn't see where it was indicated if this bus had hydraulic or air brakes. Looking more closely at the pics, I do think I see an air brake knob under the shifter. In that case, it's virtually assured to have S-cam brakes. I don't think wedge brakes were even available after the 70's ... not that I've seen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cowlitzcoach View Post
As far as price is concerned, depending upon which engine it has and which brakes it has, the price isn't that bad. If it does have the 8.2L and wedge brakes I would offer half that price. If it has 'S'-cam brakes I would be a little more generous. If it has a 2-cycle DD under the hood I would discount the price more than half. I like 2-cycle DD's. They are great engines and go next to forever. But they usually use twice as much fuel as any other diesel engine of the same size, they all use/drip oil, and it is getting increasingly difficult to find people who really know how to work on them compared to the number of people who say they know how to work on them and really don't have a clue.

That bus with a 210-250 HP DT466/Allison MT643 with 'S'-cam air brakes would be worth about the asking price with that many miles and with all that has been done to it already.
I wouldn't offer half the asking price without verifying the engine make and model. You're going to have a challenge getting parts for a non-factory engine - because when you have a parts place look up parts, they will often ask for your VIN ... and if the engine isn't what the factory put in, they'll be looking up the wrong parts.

The old 2-stroke Detroits were good engines, but he's right, they are notorious for dripping oil. They were sometimes referred to as "Screaming Demons" and for a *VERY* good (and very accurate) reason. Don't forget earplugs.

I have an '87 IH/Carpenter bus with the 9.0 and Allison trans (I think it's an AT545) that I'd take $4000 for - new LED lights all around and dual A/C (both work and use R134a refrigerant). The only reason I'm offering is because it won't fit in my driveway.
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Old 11-17-2016, 03:07 PM   #7
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Location: Winlcok, WA
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Here is a good video that explains 'S'-cam air brakes.

https://video.search.yahoo.com/video...t=prodege&tt=b

Here is a video that explains wedge air brakes.

https://video.search.yahoo.com/video...t=prodege&tt=b
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Old 11-17-2016, 03:22 PM   #8
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 18,758
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
wouldnt an 88 likely have a DT of some sort most likely? I know most of the 86 Bluebird internationals our schools has were DT's.. well OK I *THINK*.. because my carpenter DT360 sounds exactly like those 86's did... they definitely were Not V-8's...
-Christopher
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Old 11-17-2016, 03:43 PM   #9
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Join Date: May 2016
Location: Georgia
Posts: 2,264
Year: 2001
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: IH
Engine: T444E
Rated Cap: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillackid View Post
wouldnt an 88 likely have a DT of some sort most likely? I know most of the 86 Bluebird internationals our schools has were DT's.. well OK I *THINK*.. because my carpenter DT360 sounds exactly like those 86's did... they definitely were Not V-8's...
-Christopher
IH offered the 6.9's, 9.0's, DT 360's and DT 466's in the 80's. The 7.3's were the only V8's from '88 and up (there were a few built prior to '88 ). The gas engines were available until around '85 or so (discontinued in part due to safety concerns, and also fuel economy and longevity issues).
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Old 11-17-2016, 07:29 PM   #10
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 18,758
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad_SwiftFur View Post
IH offered the 6.9's, 9.0's, DT 360's and DT 466's in the 80's. The 7.3's were the only V8's from '88 and up (there were a few built prior to '88 ). The gas engines were available until around '85 or so (discontinued in part due to safety concerns, and also fuel economy and longevity issues).

good stuff... its interesting to know they disco the gas after 85.. our schools never had a diesel until 86 when they bought some carpenters with the tall windows and some bluebirds.... I only say they were dt360's just because they sounded like that.. I remember the turbo sound...

im guessing the 7.3 IDI is what became the basis for the HEUI based T-444E? or is the T-444E a completely different bird mechanics-wise? I did read smewhere that the T-444E kept its fuel pump mechanical vs going electric like the Ford version did..
-Christopher
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Old 11-17-2016, 11:01 PM   #11
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Posts: 157
I have a bus that looks a lot like that one, an 85 International Bluebird 66 Passenger and it has the DT466 and a MT-643. I only paid $1500 for it and drove it home. It is a real nice bus.
So, $5,500 seems REALLY REALLY high for a bus of that year. I also bought a 1991 GMC Ward same size with gas engine for $810, and drove it 300 miles home.
For $5,500 I would want a late 90's RE with a non-Cat engine. If I were you I would keep looking, or wait for them to come down a lot on their price.
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Old 11-19-2016, 04:16 PM   #12
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Location: New England
Posts: 63
Way too high

I've seen this bus in person. Not a good deal at all. I'd offer $2000. $2500 tops. I have seen better deals all over the place. Don't rush in because it is local. You'll regret it.
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