ISO vintage Crown school bus

[dzl_]

Pssh, crown buses are for the commoners, I'll get excited when I see someone with a convertible Crown fire truck

Or Crown Truck:






Or whatever you would call this cool thing (which looks like the 3-way lovechild of a crown bus, a spaceship, and a medieval knights helmet):

[Crown_Guy]

Indeed. Now you're getting interesting. Unfortunately the Fire Coaches have their engines mounted vertically, just like any truck or tractor, located under where those hose reels are.

This makes it real hard to have a single floor from the front to the back of the thing. I guess you can have a narrow walkway around the engine on both sides but it would make a better pickup truck like thing with all cargo area whatever behind the engine. The Fire Coach collectors would be howling for your head though if you chopped up one of their rare vehicles I'm sure.

You can see some examples of the many different custom designs and vehicles Crown made through the years. Extremely interesting and sad now that it's all lost to history. The school bus variant(s) were only the most numerous with the Fire Coaches next in production numbers. They are indeed in a class all their own as well and highly prized by those collecting, saving, and restoring them.

[bus-bro]

I don't know. I'd love a Crown. Like I posted before I could of bought a 10 wheel for four grand. But I had, and have, my '84 Bluebird All American. It might not be a million mile bus, but it sure is a hundred year bus!

[dzl_]

Originally Posted by bus-bro

I don't know. I'd love a Crown. Like I posted before I could of bought a 10 wheel for four grand. But I had, and have, my '84 Bluebird All American. It might not be a million mile bus, but it sure is a hundred year bus!

Dumb question maybe, and off topic, so ignore if you wish, my feelings won't be hurt.



What is the difference between a BB All American and BB TC2000.

[bus-bro]

I don't know the difference, but I did read somewhere that the All American had a more effective corrosion control coating of the body's steel.

[JackE]

Originally Posted by dzl_

Dumb question maybe, and off topic, so ignore if you wish, my feelings won't be hurt.



What is the difference between a BB All American and BB TC2000.

The Wikipedia page for Blue Bird has some pretty good info on it, but I'm betting the guys at Blue Bird making the busses couldn't even tell you the difference. Mine doesn't even give me the 1000 or 2000 designation. It just says TC RE.

[gussboy]

look for a crown with 855 cummins turbo 10 spd trans, not converted is best,
no older than 1978

[82Crown]

Personally I’ll stick with my 82 crown over any other bus make.. I can’t believe there’s someone in here comparing a cardboard rv to a crown.. any poorly running poorly maintained crown will still run circles around those cardboard built rv’s.. and unless you gut your window frames And kill your seals you’ll never have to worry about mold in any crown.. EVER. Crowns have literally the simplest engine/transmission design known to man.. hell, my 12 year old daughter can probably work on my crown without much thought. Can anyone say that with a thomas, bluebird or any rv? Nope

[dzl_]

Originally Posted by 82Crown

Crowns have literally the simplest engine/transmission design known to man.. hell, my 12 year old daughter can probably work on my crown without much thought. Can anyone say that with a thomas, bluebird or any rv? Nope

What makes them so much simpler to work on?

[82Crown]

Originally Posted by dzl_

What makes them so much simpler to work on?

Simple, they are primarily 2 stroke 6-71 detroits unless you get a cummins. Detroits are literally the most basic diesel engine. I’m no expert but i know diesels because I’ve had quite a few over the years. Detroits don’t have injection pumps, they don’t have intake valves either so no complicated timing or fuel systems.. they will run even when worn out. And they don’t require any special treatment.. they love to be pushed hard.. drive it like you stole it

[BeNimble]

I read somewhere that the Crown buses have fiberglass in the curved nose and tail,
and aluminum roofs, but steel sides and floor, is that right?
The MPG on those old diesels is what 4mpg? going downhill?

[Iceni John]

Originally Posted by BeNimble

I read somewhere that the Crown buses have fiberglass in the curved nose and tail,
and aluminum roofs, but steel sides and floor, is that right?
The MPG on those old diesels is what 4mpg? going downhill?

No! The original Twinkie-shaped Crowns have steel roof caps (originally made for Crown by Douglas Aircraft!), but the Series II like mine have fiberglass outer roof caps and inside ceiling caps. All Crowns, except for a very few low-budget buses built to special order with steel bodies to compete on price with other cheaper buses, have aluminum body sides and roofs, with 90,000 PSI steel for all structural members. Floors are 1-1/2" thick marine plywood on top of the frame rails and cross beams; there's no solid steel underfloor like on other buses. The entire body framework is then welded to the frame to make an integral load-bearing structure that's good for unlimited mileage and time. A 35-ft Crown with a Detroit 6-71 will easily get 10 MPG, and even my heavier 40-ft Super II with a mountain-spec 6V92 drivetrain gets about 7 MPG on the highway. When I helped a friend of mine bring his 40-ft tandem Crown back from the Sierras to SoCal he got 10 MPG overall, including climbing over Tehachapi Pass, and it's a heavier bus than 2-axle Crowns. The old Hall-Scott gasoline engines used by Crown would get only about 3 or 4 MPG, the main reason that diesels later replaced them.

John

[82Crown]

Originally Posted by BeNimble

I read somewhere that the Crown buses have fiberglass in the curved nose and tail,
and aluminum roofs, but steel sides and floor, is that right?
The MPG on those old diesels is what 4mpg? going downhill?

My 82 crown 671 5 speed gets around 8-10 i assume. Based on the mileage I’ve driven and how much has been used so far. I’ll report back once the tank is near empty. I’m looking for a 10 speed to put into my bus, i assume the mileage numbers will go up a tad with the 10 speed and rear axle ratio a but lower for highway speeds. I’m sure crown guy will chime in shortly on the subject. As for my bus it’s pretty much all aluminum with the exception of the front nose cover on the driverside and the tail light caps

[Willie_McCoy]

Originally Posted by BeNimble

I read somewhere that the Crown buses have fiberglass in the curved nose and tail,
and aluminum roofs, but steel sides and floor, is that right?
The MPG on those old diesels is what 4mpg? going downhill?

I drove mine from Oregon to Rhode Island on a northern route through Idaho and Montana and averaged about 12mpg overall. Not too bad if you ask me.

[Willie_McCoy]

Originally Posted by Aimee

Hi! I came across a Crown for sale in Los Angeles yesterday. I'm not sure it'll be the right fit for you, but maybe it's worth a look!

Here's the link: 1977 Crown Bus.

I looked closely at this bus before I bought mine. It has been for sale for 2 years now at least. I actually had made a deal with the seller for well less than half what he is asking in that listing. Crown Guy was quite familiar with it and steered me away, I seem to remember him saying something about the ceiling looking like a hammer went at it with a dull apprentice.

[Willie_McCoy]

Originally Posted by dzl_

Pssh, crown buses are for the commoners, I'll get excited when I see someone with a convertible Crown fire truck



[CENTER]

I almost bought this Crown Tiller from a GSA auction, I drive a 1994 Simon LTI tiller at work, and one of the guys at the station sent me the listing and offered to tiller it home with me. I had delusions of saving this baby and either making a show piece, or building the ultimate 5th wheel camper using an old supercoach body as the trailer. My wife intervened on behalf of the neighborhood.

https://www.govdeals.com/index.cfm?f...62&acctid=8245

Then there is this beauty, that I am reasonably sure I can get running, and would love to try to drive back to RI, but I haven't yet convinced the wife that it is a better idea than the tiller was.

https://www.truckpaper.com/listings/...rown-firecoach

Honestly, I do regret not jumping on that tiller, that would have been a hell of a get.

[UFO pilot]

Since we are all over the map on Crowns here, I have a Supercoach II question:

Were they RE only or were any coaches built in FE or ME?

[GWRider]

Originally Posted by Iceni John

No! The original Twinkie-shaped Crowns have steel roof caps (originally made for Crown by Douglas Aircraft!), but the Series II like mine have fiberglass outer roof caps and inside ceiling caps. All Crowns, except for a very few low-budget buses built to special order with steel bodies to compete on price with other cheaper buses, have aluminum body sides and roofs, with 90,000 PSI steel for all structural members. Floors are 1-1/2" thick marine plywood on top of the frame rails and cross beams; there's no solid steel underfloor like on other buses. The entire body framework is then welded to the frame to make an integral load-bearing structure that's good for unlimited mileage and time. A 35-ft Crown with a Detroit 6-71 will easily get 10 MPG, and even my heavier 40-ft Super II with a mountain-spec 6V92 drivetrain gets about 7 MPG on the highway. When I helped a friend of mine bring his 40-ft tandem Crown back from the Sierras to SoCal he got 10 MPG overall, including climbing over Tehachapi Pass, and it's a heavier bus than 2-axle Crowns. The old Hall-Scott gasoline engines used by Crown would get only about 3 or 4 MPG, the main reason that diesels later replaced them.

John

On my 90, the driver side roof front round corner is steel and the passenger side roof front round corner is steel but between them in the middle is aluminum. Not sure if this was normal?

[Crown_Guy]

Crown Super II's were all rear engine. Three engine options were available, Cat 3208, Cummins 8.3, and the 6V-92 Detroits. They had the squared off body style in front and rear to make them look more "modern" and compete with the other brands. In between they were essentially the same structures as the regular classic underfloor engined Crown Super Coach. Front engines were only done in the thirty's before Crown developed the revolutionary,(at the time), Transit style with no hood and eventually led to the Super Coach design with it's engine midships underneath.

Crown built both the II's and mid-engine Super Coaches right up to the end. Many body parts were interchangeable so it made plenty of sense and there was still a strong demand for the Super Coachs.

As John said there are some steel body panels used in some areas and these are also where you can see the rusting and bubbling develop. I suspect the choice for steel is due to the extreme shapes involved, beyond what could be formed with Aluminum, as well as strength issues for that location. The rear escape hatch, for instance, is notorious for rust and is all steel. These steel locations were standard for all Crowns.

For the most part the exterior body panels are aluminum and resist the rusting problem, even the normal corrosion aluminum is prone to as seen on coaches is not too evident on Crowns. Not sure if this is by design or if the climate here in CA. is biggest reason they stay so clean. Even the big steel structural members in the walls and underneath exposed to the elements remain very clean and rust free, especially when compared to other buses. I know Crown used extensive and expensive coatings to protect the steel so maybe it's due to the superior design and materials in construction. It sure seems to work just fine.

[cadillackid]

I think the aluminum has a huge part of them staying clean.. i have a fishbowl bus with aluminum sides run in ohio all its life and its pretty darn clean being aluminum.. vs the normal ohio vehicle that is rusty crusty before its 20 years old..