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Old 06-12-2017, 02:16 PM   #21
Bus Crazy
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Georgia
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Year: 2001
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: IH
Engine: T444E
Rated Cap: 14
A quick internet search shows the T444 as having a "B10" rating of 200,000 and "B50" rating of 350,000. What do these ratings mean? Well, quite simply, the first means that 10% of the engines built will need a rebuild or replacement by the 200,000 mile mark. The next means 50% of the engines built will need rebuild/replacement by the 350K mark. Some wear out or die sooner, some last much longer. It's an industry rating system intended for accountants to estimate how long a fleet will last before major work or replacement is necessary.

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Old 06-12-2017, 02:25 PM   #22
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Coachwork: 97 Bluebird TC1000 5.9
Financially speaking, a '97 that runs and has wet brakes would be worth about $2k to me. I'd expect to pay that at auction, or less.
There has been extensive discussion about the difficulty of getting parts for the majority of the wet braking systems on buses, but as always not all buses are alike. I don't want to find out I need the unobtanium parts while out on the road. It's easy to avoid wet brakes.

For all the reasons listed above too. Air just makes more sense. This is a commercial size vehicle so commercial type brakes are appreciated IMO.
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Old 06-12-2017, 04:33 PM   #23
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Year: 1991
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Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iBiskuit View Post
So as far as I have been reading, it simply depends on who you talk to regarding T444E engines and their life span. I found a 6 window bus with minimal rust but it has 275,000 miles on it. The bus is a 97 International Bluebird with a T444E and HYD brakes. They are asking $7500 and seem to be pretty firm on that number. I find that a bit steep considering how many miles are on it. Im not sure how many hours it has on it.

I know depending on the engine and how well it was properly maintained, there is a chance it has a lot of life left. However, there is always that chance that it could go belly up on the way home.

What is everybodys opinion? Is it worth investing into a bus with that many miles?


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I bought a year 2000 of that same bus with A/C and 144,000 miles for 1800 at auction last fall...

hydraulic brakes arent a deal killer for me... they work fine and wit hno rust I dont have rusted brake lines.. and I have ABS which is nice for rain and winter,,

if you can fin a non wheelchair shorty they tend to go at auction for much less as i thinkl many shorty buyers want that lift (chruches and secondary schools).. ECCB got a nice shorty for around that same price..
-Christopher
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Old 06-12-2017, 04:34 PM   #24
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Join Date: May 2009
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Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad_SwiftFur View Post
A quick internet search shows the T444 as having a "B10" rating of 200,000 and "B50" rating of 350,000. What do these ratings mean? Well, quite simply, the first means that 10% of the engines built will need a rebuild or replacement by the 200,000 mile mark. The next means 50% of the engines built will need rebuild/replacement by the 350K mark. Some wear out or die sooner, some last much longer. It's an industry rating system intended for accountants to estimate how long a fleet will last before major work or replacement is necessary.
is that tracked only by engines that actually see the dealer? ive often wondered about the guys that drive it 400,000 miles and then rebuild it themselves.. or junk the truck because it rusts out before the motor dies..

-Christopher
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Old 06-12-2017, 04:47 PM   #25
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Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Beech Grove, IN
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Year: 2001
Coachwork: Amtran
Chassis: International
Engine: T444e
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Originally Posted by Rameses View Post
This story pretty much sums it up..
link

With air brakes, if you have a hose break the spring brakes come on.

With air brakes, the default is full brake application. With hydraulic brakes, the default is no brakes at all.
This was correct when master cylinders were a single reservoirs, but the dual reservoir masters will have to break both lines to have a total failure.
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Old 06-12-2017, 04:52 PM   #26
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Any wise minds have anything against the CAT 3126?

I found an 8 window bus awhile back ago with a CAT 3126 with AT545 and 180,000 miles. It has minimal rust and it even has air brakes! Its still for sale asking at $2500 but I left it on the back burner until now because from what I gather, replacement parts are more expensive?

As usual, I am hearing mixed reviews. Anybody have personal experience with these engines?


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Old 06-12-2017, 05:40 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by cadillackid View Post
is that tracked only by engines that actually see the dealer? ive often wondered about the guys that drive it 400,000 miles and then rebuild it themselves.. or junk the truck because it rusts out before the motor dies..

-Christopher
It is an actual engineer's/manufacturer's rating when the engines are new. It is not compiled after the engines are in service.
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Old 06-12-2017, 05:54 PM   #28
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Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad_SwiftFur View Post
It is an actual engineer's/manufacturer's rating when the engines are new. It is not compiled after the engines are in service.
The data is compiled from test units that are lab and road tested but not from real world use as the engines are run to their demise?

Of course like any ratingcits just that, there's a zillion factors affecting engine life including undetectable tolerance faults in parts that may show up at 100,000 miles causing a total failure.. or it may be well cared for and no flaws in parts or assembly and run till 500,000 miles.
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Old 06-12-2017, 07:11 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by iBiskuit View Post
Any wise minds have anything against the CAT 3126?

I found an 8 window bus awhile back ago with a CAT 3126 with AT545 and 180,000 miles. It has minimal rust and it even has air brakes! Its still for sale asking at $2500 but I left it on the back burner until now because from what I gather, replacement parts are more expensive?

As usual, I am hearing mixed reviews. Anybody have personal experience with these engines?


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I have no personal experience with the Cat 3116 and 3126 engines, it is simply my understanding that replacement parts cost more and generally only come from Cat dealers. Good luck after hours and during weekends.
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Old 06-12-2017, 07:36 PM   #30
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Definitely something to consider. Appreciate the input Brad


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Old 06-12-2017, 07:58 PM   #31
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This was correct when master cylinders were a single reservoirs, but the dual reservoir masters will have to break both lines to have a total failure.
Same truck, the hydro-boost diaphragm got a tear in it. And with that one, it doesn't matter if it's a single reservoir or not. Sudden lack of power assist on brakes in something that weighed 24,000 lbs is another experience I'd rather not deal with again.

There are just more things that can go wrong with a hydraulic brake system, and with worse consequences.
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Old 06-12-2017, 08:09 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Brad_SwiftFur View Post
I have no personal experience with the Cat 3116 and 3126 engines, it is simply my understanding that replacement parts cost more and generally only come from Cat dealers. Good luck after hours and during weekends.

This is definitely the reason most people shy away from Cats.

To add to that, the 3116 had problems with the design of its injectors and injector cups. The cups and injectors develop wear which results in cylinders not firing. Changing the injectors in that engine is a time consuming endeavour. And there's no way to test the new injector/cup pair for proper seating without completely reassembling the engine. So you might go through the entire process only to find that the problem is still there. And you have no idea how long it'll be until you're tearing it apart again to change a different one. An engine that's best avoided.

The 3126 was actually a pretty decent engine. It just suffers from the infamous Cat parts availability/pricing problem if anything ever needs to be replaced.
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Old 06-12-2017, 08:23 PM   #33
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Quote:
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The 3126 was actually a pretty decent engine. It just suffers from the infamous Cat parts availability/pricing problem if anything ever needs to be replaced.

What is the longest wait time you have heard on the availability of CAT parts?



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Old 06-12-2017, 08:38 PM   #34
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What is the longest wait time you have heard on the availability of CAT parts?



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It's not necessarily that there's a long wait time for getting the parts. Most Cat dealers have a huge parts inventory. The problem is that a Cat dealer is the *only* place you can get parts for them. That means if your starter kicks the bucket at a truck stop while you're getting fuel at 5:30 on a Friday night, you aren't going anywhere until Monday morning. Whereas with a DT466 or Cummins 8.3 under the hood, you can probably find a starter at a Napa or CarQuest on a Saturday or Sunday. And you don't have to pay dealer pricing.
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Old 06-12-2017, 08:57 PM   #35
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Gotcha. Appreciate the clarification!


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Old 06-12-2017, 09:07 PM   #36
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Glad to help!
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Old 07-01-2017, 12:04 AM   #37
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Well I have officially joined the skoolie club. Thank you all for the help and thank you Brad for finding me the bus. I started a new topic for those wanting to follow along with the build.

6 Window Blue Bird Off the Grid Conversion

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