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Old 10-19-2016, 01:16 PM   #41
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Savannah, GA
Posts: 45
Year: 1997
Coachwork: International
Chassis: 3000
Engine: 7.6 L / DT466
Rated Cap: 72 Pass.
Hi,

I am very new to buses so can someone please give me an easy to understand rundown of the ideal bus engine for long distance, over mountains type? I would really really appreciate it!

1) I know DT466 (Diesel Turbo) is good over a D466
2) IC, Blue Bird, and Thomas bodies are the best (best to not so best)
3) A higher Liter is good (8.3L as opposed to 5.9L) What does 5.9L mean?
4) What is a good model number, like 3000IC, 3800, TC2000, FS65
5) Whats a good and bad speed, like 5 speed transmission.
6) What does this mean? A3 RE 7200S (RE is rear engine) or ISB 5.9L V6 (V6 is the amount of cylinders in an engine, is the higher the better?)

THANK YOU A MILLION! Im sure this a no brainer for some of you!

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Old 10-19-2016, 02:28 PM   #42
Bus Crazy
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Georgia
Posts: 2,264
Year: 2001
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: IH
Engine: T444E
Rated Cap: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRoanBus View Post
1) I know DT466 (Diesel Turbo) is good over a D466
2) IC, Blue Bird, and Thomas bodies are the best (best to not so best)
3) A higher Liter is good (8.3L as opposed to 5.9L) What does 5.9L mean?
4) What is a good model number, like 3000IC, 3800, TC2000, FS65
5) Whats a good and bad speed, like 5 speed transmission.
6) What does this mean? A3 RE 7200S (RE is rear engine) or ISB 5.9L V6 (V6 is the amount of cylinders in an engine, is the higher the better?)
1) I believe nearly all the bus DT466's will be turbocharged versions. I'm not aware of any (in trucks and buses) that weren't. The T444's (same as 7.3 in Ford) I believe came in turbo and non-turbo versions.
2) I'll let someone else more knowledgeable answer this.
3) 5.9L simply means a 5.9 Liter engine, roughly 360 Cubic Inch cylinder displacement. IH made the DT360 (5.9L displacement), Chrysler made the old 360 gas engine (common in old cars and pickups), Cummins made the 5.9L diesel engine for trucks, buses, and a version for Chrysler vehicles. There are plenty others that I have not mentioned.
4) 3000IC - chassis built by IH. 3800 - IH "Schoolmaster" bus chassis built until 2004. TC2000 - a Blue Bird offering that, according to the Wiki, used only the GM 7.0 gas engine, the Cummins 5.9 and 8.3L diesels. FS-65 - a Freightliner built chassis which, according to the Wiki, came with either the 3126 Cat engine (Not a terribly desirable engine), the 5.9 Cummins, or the 6.4 Detroit Diesel/Mercedes engine (Also not a desirable choice).
5) Since most buses have Allison Automatics, pretty much anything other than the AT545 will be a good choice. The AT545 isn't a *bad* transmission; it mostly just lacks overdrive and a so-called "lock-up" torque converter. If by some chance you're looking at a manual, you'll probably find 5-speeds most common.
6) ISB 5.9L is *Probably* the Cummins engine, but that one is *NOT* a V6. if by chance it is a V6, it will probably be a Cat engine (but not a 5.9L); if it's an old bus (typically a coach style bus) it might be a 6V92 Detroit engine.

In cars and pickups, V8 style engines tend to be preferred over inline-6 engines, but for larger vehicles, the inline-6 engines are known for generating much more torque and generally having a longer lifespan. The V8 style diesels historically had a lower initial purchase price, and lower horsepower ratings to match. On a low-speed, stop-and-go school bus route, this is fine. This is why you'll find buses set up for field trips have larger engines, and usually of a "straight-6" variety.

I do believe Cat produced some V6 engines, which in my opinion are the worst of both worlds. They lack the low-end torque of their inline counterparts, and the low cost of purchase like their V8 cousins. I'm not saying Cat engines are bad, but you'll find parts are considerably more expensive, and *ONLY* available at Cat dealers.

Detroit also produced a variety of V6 and V8 style engines over the years. The older ones typically found in coach-style buses were not the longest lasting engines, but had more than plenty of power, were known for reasonably decent fuel economy, and could easily earn a driver a speeding ticket. They were also known to be easy to work on and not too costly to rebuild. I like Detroit engines, as long as they are *NOT* the Mercedes-partnership versions.

Detroit/Mercedes partnership engines - I've never really messed with the ones in buses, but I drive big trucks for a living and the early Mercedes engines were widely disliked by buyers, drivers, and technicians. Typically it was the late-model emissions components that had issues; the older non-emissions Detroit engines (especially in big trucks) were known to be very reliable and many went well over a million miles.
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Old 10-19-2016, 02:36 PM   #43
Mini-Skoolie
 
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Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Salt Lake City
Posts: 31
Year: 2001
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: TC2000
Engine: Cummins 5.9 (24v)
Rated Cap: 66 Passenger
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad_SwiftFur View Post
I would steer clear of the Cummins 5.9 for much long distance travel. It's *OK* for flatlands travel, but will struggle up long hills.
I own a 33ft BB with a Front-engine 5.9/24v Cummins (paired with an Allison 2k series tranny). I also live an play in the Rocky's. I have yet to find canyon between Banff and Southwest Colorado that I couldn't do at least 50.

P.S. I don't have any aftermarket chips or mods on the motor - it is just the way BB and Cummins built it.
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Old 10-19-2016, 05:42 PM   #44
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Savannah, GA
Posts: 45
Year: 1997
Coachwork: International
Chassis: 3000
Engine: 7.6 L / DT466
Rated Cap: 72 Pass.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad_SwiftFur View Post
1) I believe nearly all the bus DT466's will be turbocharged versions......
From your reply this is what I'm getting...

Get: DT466, 8.3L, V6, Detroit (but not when paired with Mercedes). What else should I look for?

Don't Get: D466, 5.9L, Cat V6, AT545 transmission. What else should I stay away from?

Thanks!
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Old 10-19-2016, 06:57 PM   #45
Bus Crazy
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Georgia
Posts: 2,264
Year: 2001
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: IH
Engine: T444E
Rated Cap: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRoanBus View Post
From your reply this is what I'm getting...

Get: DT466, 8.3L, V6, Detroit (but not when paired with Mercedes). What else should I look for?

Don't Get: D466, 5.9L, Cat V6, AT545 transmission. What else should I stay away from?

Thanks!
Clarification - try to avoid *any* V6 (in a school bus). The I6 (or often referred to as L6) arrangement is preferred.

If you see something listed as a D466, it is most likely a DT466 and is simply a typo. This engine has been around since the 70's and (at least in truck and bus use), I've never seen a non-turbo version.

IH did produce some actual "D" series engines (D 150, D 170, D 190) in the late 70's, which became known as the 9L engine in 1980. (I am guessing the model number represents the horsepower rating of the specific model). This engine was discontinued at the end of 1987 because it could not meet emissions for 1988 and was replaced by the 7.3L/T444 engine.

The Cummins 5.9 isn't a bad engine, as Chad pointed out. Then again, he has the (more powerful) 24 valve version of this engine - and I haven't looked to get an idea of the weight of his rig. If he's running reasonably "light", then sure, that engine will work fine. Add on some water tanks, electrical, appliances, extra metal for a roof raise, batteries, inverter, generator, this, that, the other, etc., etc., etc., and before you know it, you have a 28K pound rig ...

I haven't ruled out ever buying a Cummins 5.9 engine ... but I would be doing my research before buying one. I do know about the KDP issue (I believe this was on engines from the early-mid 90's?) and the "53 block casting" (late 90's - early 2000's?). Someone more familiar with these, feel free to append or correct me here.

I also don't mind the AT545 transmission - but then again, I'm not likely to take one on a long road trip either. My usage will likely be a lot more "local". There are folks on this forum who have AT545's and have run them many miles with no trouble.
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Old 10-19-2016, 07:37 PM   #46
Bus Crazy
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Georgia
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Chassis: IH
Engine: T444E
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If you don't mind the 5.9 Cummins engine, here's a possible candidate for you: https://www.govdeals.com/index.cfm?f...71&acctid=7740

I'd drop by with a couple batteries, *CHECK THE FLUIDS FIRST*, and see if it would start. I know it says L6 - then V6 engine ... it appears to be an L6, and the V6 is wrong.
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Old 10-19-2016, 08:15 PM   #47
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Savannah, GA
Posts: 45
Year: 1997
Coachwork: International
Chassis: 3000
Engine: 7.6 L / DT466
Rated Cap: 72 Pass.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad_SwiftFur View Post
If you don't mind the 5.9 Cummins engine, here's a possible candidate for you: https://www.govdeals.com/index.cfm?f...71&acctid=7740

I'd drop by with a couple batteries, *CHECK THE FLUIDS FIRST*, and see if it would start. I know it says L6 - then V6 engine ... it appears to be an L6, and the V6 is wrong.
Is the 5.9L Cummins engine not as high performance as a 8.3L engine? Should I stick with the 8.3 to get the HP needed for going over mountains and long distances? Its been used for the school system so it will probably not be the best option for my travels, plus I'm going to be putting a ton of weight in my bus for all of the remodeling I'm doing.
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Old 10-19-2016, 08:46 PM   #48
Bus Crazy
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Georgia
Posts: 2,264
Year: 2001
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: IH
Engine: T444E
Rated Cap: 14
Obviously the 8.3 is going to be a more powerful engine. Either one will travel long distances well enough. How fast do you want to travel? The 5.9 will be fine for cruising at a leisurely 65 on flats and down to 50 or so on steep hills. It may have a higher top speed depending on transmission and gearing but will be pushing its limit at much more than that.

The 8.3 will easily maintain 75+ (assuming it's geared properly) and should ascend hills at 60+ if the bus isn't terribly heavy.

Most of these buses have been used for school systems ... and consider that they were designed to haul 60+ kids at 150-200 pounds each. I don't think the weight will be a problem.
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Old 10-20-2016, 09:54 PM   #49
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What's the word on this bus?

Public Surplus: Auction #1700764
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Old 10-21-2016, 03:45 PM   #50
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Location: Music City USA
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Year: 2005
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Chassis: Freightliner
Engine: Detroit MBE906
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You asked about this one in another thread, see my reply there.
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