Should I purchase this bus

[Brad_SwiftFur]

I believe ECCB has a short bus (correct me if I'm mistaken), which is like half the weight of a full size one. Also his profile shows a Cat 3126 engine in it, which has torque-a-plenty (unless that's a different bus?)

[RolesvilleMarina]

Originally Posted by Brad_SwiftFur

I believe ECCB has a short bus (correct me if I'm mistaken), which is like half the weight of a full size one. Also his profile shows a Cat 3126 engine in it, which has torque-a-plenty (unless that's a different bus?)

Like I said I hope TO GOD that I didn't come across as a prick

but it seems like he has a unicorn indeed... goes 80, low revs, plenty to tow, plenty to hills

and then the rest of the 99% of buses are just **** all then?

thats all... its just amazing no one else can pull the same is all I mean. Is it as simple as getting a CAT motor and the AT545 suddenly has no issue with slippage and etc? Or is it just he is geared so low?

I looked up his engine on a Cat forum and found this, which is about the same kinda info that we get with the T444E and etc in regards to an AT545.

" If it has a AT545 tranny behind it, the engine can only be 175 HP or 190 HP, so you will probably be complaining about power and lack of road speed pulling any bigger hill if you have it fully loaded.

There were so many complains about that combination (lower engine HP and THAT automatic tranny, that never locks up the torque converter, thus generates a LOT of tranny heat, pulling bigger long hills) Drops down to the 20-30 MPH range on long mountain passes, when loaded.

The engine RPMs stay reasonable high, but that torque convertor just slips more and more, thus less MPH = everyone want to blame the engine, but engines were fine and produce their advertised HP or a little better.

Later, either Allison or the OEM manufacturers, asked CAT engineers, if they would built some different software and add just a bit more HP, to the 190HP models, so some customers could get a "bigger run", at some rolling hills and maybe some of the many complaints would be lessened. This wasn't CAT's problem, but they did make some "special" 190 HP software that increased the "hump HP" to 205 HP. It was only to be used in a 190 HP engine, that was in front of a AT545 tranny. "


So again it just seems odd that he pulls numbers no one else can with any other combination of engine/tranny...

and yet in threads when it comes to talking about re-gearing then the gurus all start to talk about the "trade off" between tall and short gears.

then there is EastCoast, which seems to defy all the odds of the advice the rest of us get

[Sehnsucht]

It's not that no one can get the same numbers but very few regear their differential or even know that's an option. Also, taller gears are nice for highway speeds but the sacrifice is some low end torque which makes it work harder from a stop. That's fine as long as you're not planning a lot of stop-and-go or off-roading or what not.

[RolesvilleMarina]

Originally Posted by Sehnsucht

It's not that no one can get the same numbers but very few regear their differential or even know that's an option. Also, taller gears are nice for highway speeds but the sacrifice is some low end torque which makes it work harder from a stop. That's fine as long as you're not planning a lot of stop-and-go or off-roading or what not.

Yes, the sacrifice in numbers and etc is what stops people from re- gearing

and from his posts it seems that these are a non issue for his bus

this is what I refer to... so is it the gearing, or the Cat motor that allows him to do what no others can?

[Brad_SwiftFur]

Now that regearing has come up, my own bus went yesterday to a shop for a gear swap. Going 5.38 to 3.91. Yes, I know I'll "lose low end performance". Right. I have a 5-speed manual. I haven't used 1st gear since I've had it (it's geared so low). Besides, I'm not planning on a lot of stop and go city driving, this is intended to be a road trip vehicle. At some point I'll see about setting up the engine for the 210 HP if I think it's necessary/justified.

[Brad_SwiftFur]

Originally Posted by RolesvilleMarina

Yes, the sacrifice in numbers and etc is what stops people from re- gearing

and from his posts it seems that these are a non issue for his bus

this is what I refer to... so is it the gearing, or the Cat motor that allows him to do what no others can?

I seem to recall in some other thread his bus has gears in the low 3's. Given the math on mine - 3.91's should give me a top speed of ~78 at 2500 RPM.

[RolesvilleMarina]

Originally Posted by Sehnsucht

It's not that no one can get the same numbers but very few regear their differential or even know that's an option. Also, taller gears are nice for highway speeds but the sacrifice is some low end torque which makes it work harder from a stop. That's fine as long as you're not planning a lot of stop-and-go or off-roading or what not.

Originally Posted by Brad_SwiftFur

I seem to recall in some other thread his bus has gears in the low 3's. Given the math on mine - 3.91's should give me a top speed of ~78 at 2500 RPM.

I have an Allison 2000 (with the 5th gear OD)
and I have a 4.78 rear end...

I don't think even in OD I am doing 65 at 1700s more like 1900ish
but again, maybe the magic is the cat motor?

Again, I am NOT calling him a liar
I am NOT trying to be a jerk

I am trying to figure out how he does so well is all since all we talk about is "trade off"

mine doesn't accelerate like a beast, but once she is up there she locks in and cruises quiet at around 1900-2000 at 65

I can, but do not want to go faster, and have not pegged it with the new trans yet... I got to 75 and I got a bit nervouse with it is still a school bus with french whore steering

[EastCoastCB]

Originally Posted by banman

I wonder if there were variations to the 1st/R gear ratios in the 545?

no, its just a regular 545 reman.

[EastCoastCB]

Originally Posted by Brad_SwiftFur

I believe ECCB has a short bus (correct me if I'm mistaken), which is like half the weight of a full size one. Also his profile shows a Cat 3126 engine in it, which has torque-a-plenty (unless that's a different bus?)

Its not half the weight. My bus probably weighs a few tons less than a 40 footer, but not close to half the weight. Maybe 3/4?

[Brad_SwiftFur]

Guru Google says:

11R22.5 tires typically turn 492 revolutions per mile. Let's assume 3.23 gears. Math:
492x3.23=1589 (engine revolutions per mile, this does not account for any transmission slippage).
Going the other way, assuming 2500 RPM:
2500/3.23/492 = 1.57xxx (Miles per *MINUTE*, multiply by 60 and we get) 1.57x x 60 = 94.38 MPH


*Edit* This assumes 1:1 transmission top gear. Factor in overdrive if your bus has one.

[EastCoastCB]

Originally Posted by RolesvilleMarina

I am not trying to sound like I don't believe you... but being the internet you can't see the seriousness and that I am NOT being an arse when I ask this.

but how is it you get so much incredible numbers, no issues over hills and etc as you claim? and at 1700 rpm even. But no one else seems to be able to accomplish this?

If such is the case why doesn't everyone just re-gear to what you have and call it sorted?

it just seems that only your bus pushes these amazing numbers, and everyone else who asks the reply would usually be "sell the bus, and don't ever by an AT545" etc and etc.



but here you are, 80 mph at low revs? And none of us else can get close it seems with an AT545?

so whats the catch then mate?

again I am doing my best to sound as non snarky or prickish as I can..

but I am genuinely curious as there is not seems to be another that can boast to get the number you do... I've read literally every AT454 woe is me story on here... but again here you are, the only one.

I'm certainly not the only one. When I bought a 92 Ward Senator with 466 and 643 I couldn't believe my buddy's 92 TC with 5.9 and 545 would easily cruise at 70. My bus topped out at 62 going downhill. The gearing. That's what his bus had. I don't recall his ratio but mine was 4.44.

I tell people to regear just about every day here. I've got pics of my gauges going 65 at 1700 rpm. They've been posted all over the forum for years. I have HIGHWAY appropriate gearing, thats it. The engine isn't spinning at its hp peak, its in its torque peak. I'm going up hills FAR better than my last buses. That's with less hp and no lockup. But the engine's rpm range is much better at 1700 than 2600.

Usually my suggestion to regear is met with folks saying that will make it incapable of gong up hills or pulling their boat. While I'd not recommend a 3.27 for towing or mountains, its not like you can't just drop to 3rd or 2nd in necessary.
At the end of the day I'm still not a fan of the 545- but I'm a fan of the buses of that era and feel like people should at least understand that a 545 isn't actually why their bus only does 50 or 55.

[EastCoastCB]

Originally Posted by Brad_SwiftFur

I believe ECCB has a short bus (correct me if I'm mistaken), which is like half the weight of a full size one. Also his profile shows a Cat 3126 engine in it, which has torque-a-plenty (unless that's a different bus?)

My engine is a 3126. 190hp 520 tq.

[EastCoastCB]

Originally Posted by RolesvilleMarina

Like I said I hope TO GOD that I didn't come across as a prick

but it seems like he has a unicorn indeed... goes 80, low revs, plenty to tow, plenty to hills

and then the rest of the 99% of buses are just **** all then?

thats all... its just amazing no one else can pull the same is all I mean. Is it as simple as getting a CAT motor and the AT545 suddenly has no issue with slippage and etc? Or is it just he is geared so low?

I looked up his engine on a Cat forum and found this, which is about the same kinda info that we get with the T444E and etc in regards to an AT545.

" If it has a AT545 tranny behind it, the engine can only be 175 HP or 190 HP, so you will probably be complaining about power and lack of road speed pulling any bigger hill if you have it fully loaded.

There were so many complains about that combination (lower engine HP and THAT automatic tranny, that never locks up the torque converter, thus generates a LOT of tranny heat, pulling bigger long hills) Drops down to the 20-30 MPH range on long mountain passes, when loaded.

The engine RPMs stay reasonable high, but that torque convertor just slips more and more, thus less MPH = everyone want to blame the engine, but engines were fine and produce their advertised HP or a little better.

Later, either Allison or the OEM manufacturers, asked CAT engineers, if they would built some different software and add just a bit more HP, to the 190HP models, so some customers could get a "bigger run", at some rolling hills and maybe some of the many complaints would be lessened. This wasn't CAT's problem, but they did make some "special" 190 HP software that increased the "hump HP" to 205 HP. It was only to be used in a 190 HP engine, that was in front of a AT545 tranny. "


So again it just seems odd that he pulls numbers no one else can with any other combination of engine/tranny...

and yet in threads when it comes to talking about re-gearing then the gurus all start to talk about the "trade off" between tall and short gears.

then there is EastCoast, which seems to defy all the odds of the advice the rest of us get

I've got the only bus on the forum with a lift kit, too. At least that I've seen, from the factory.

[EastCoastCB]

Originally Posted by RolesvilleMarina

Yes, the sacrifice in numbers and etc is what stops people from re- gearing

and from his posts it seems that these are a non issue for his bus

this is what I refer to... so is it the gearing, or the Cat motor that allows him to do what no others can?

These engines have a lot more torque a lot lower than the hot rods and 4x4's. People forget that mororhomes with the same engines as their buses have similar gear ratios to mine, thus different driving dynamics than a stop and go route school bus.
does my highway gearing affect acceleration from a stop? I'm sure it does to some extent. I'm just not feeling it in the seat of my pants and I've certainly driven more than a couple buses now.

Look all I'm saying, all I've BEEN saying... is if people want to cruise the highways and interstates then regearing for that will really REALLLY make for a much improved experience.

[EastCoastCB]

[banman]

Originally Posted by EastCoastCB

no, its just a regular 545 reman.

Originally Posted by EastCoastCB

Its not half the weight. My bus probably weighs a few tons less than a 40 footer, but not close to half the weight. Maybe 3/4?

Yup, the only weight difference between your bus and my 38'er would be the 14' of frame rail and sheet metal -- maybe a few thousand pounds...
But then you have the added weight of air brake system compared to my hydro and the handcap system.

For any given automatic tranny there are still variables in the torque converter and potential different gear ratio combo's.
The Allison 2000 series comes with several different 1st, 2nd, 3rd gear possibilities which only makes sense since some of these 2000's went in school buses and others went in dump-trucks. But the 4th speed is always 1:1 and 5th is always .74:1 for the o/d

I haven't looked into the various internals of the 545 because I don't have one...

Could be comparing your remaned' transmission to a ragged out 200k mile used tranny is part of what's making all the difference.

And you're in FL -- there are NO hills in FL having lived there and CO I say this with a pretty straight face...
Now, if & when you git yer bus to CO tell us how it performs. And like you said, you can always shift to 2nd or even 1st if you have to -- if you're driving all day, taking an extra ½hr to climb Wolf's Creek pass isn't a big deal -- just more time to enjoy the view!

[o1marc]

Originally Posted by RoadRanger20

Which states did you get your last 4 buses from? I never thought to look that far out West.

It pays to travel to get a bus that you won't HAVE to put a bunch of money in right away. I went to Wash. and Ore. for 2 buses. The trip home gets you time to familiarize yourself with the bus. Mine has a DT466 with an Allison 3060 and cruise at 85mph without a hiccup.

[RolesvilleMarina]

Originally Posted by EastCoastCB

like I said I never doubted you at all... just was trying to understand better.

but again with all the various talk of trade offs it seems yours does not really lose much either way.

and it seems it must be the cat motor I imagine.

remember I do struggle with the numbers too, but at one point I was thinking of regearing to what you have, and then was talked out of it.


as for the Allison 2000 having different 1-3rd gears I was not aware of this...
I wonder what mine are and what is "ideal" then

I pulled my trans from a long bus with a 6.10 rear end... and stuffed it in a short vista with the tiny 37 tires..

I do love the discussions... and agree best to wait for the bus you want if you can

[EastCoastCB]

What's the rear end ratio in your vista?

[RolesvilleMarina]

Originally Posted by EastCoastCB

What's the rear end ratio in your vista?

4.78 and the smaller tires

With the A-2000 it seems to be doing well. I haven't driven it "far" yet but have been up on the motorway

but I will be towing a sailboat... and I will eventually hit some kind of hills too