School bus tragedy in Norfolk, VA

[dgorila1]

This happened yesterday here in Norfolk. Luckily no kids were on the bus, but one of the cars went under the bus, shearing off the roof and killing the driver (a Navy sailor it sounds like). Shows why the buses are built to withstand a crash, yet we still can't get insurance if we buy one to give them a second life after they are retired. The Engine Company and Squad Truck that responded are from my former stations. I never liked responding to accident scenes like this but they happen all the time. Prayers to everyone involved and their families.

Man explains moment he tried to save woman who died in crash | 13NEWSNOW.com

[EastCoastCB]

Originally Posted by dgorila1

This happened yesterday here in Norfolk. Luckily no kids were on the bus, but one of the cars went under the bus, shearing off the roof and killing the driver (a Navy sailor it sounds like). Shows why the buses are built to withstand a crash, yet we still can't get insurance if we buy one to give them a second life after they are retired. The Engine Company and Squad Truck that responded are from my former stations. I never liked responding to accident scenes like this but they happen all the time. Prayers to everyone involved and their families.

Man explains moment he tried to save woman who died in crash | 13NEWSNOW.com

Maybe we can't get insurance very easily because buses cause so much damage to the OTHER vehicle and its occupants.

[dgorila1]

Originally Posted by EastCoastCB

Maybe we can't get insurance very easily because buses cause so much damage to the OTHER vehicle and its occupants.

I think that's one part of the equation. The other parts are most likely poor quality conversions (i.e. safety issues = injury in an accident) and poor driver skills.

[livinthelife]

When you talk to the insurance company does it help your chances (if you have one) if you have a CDL? Most insurance companies would like it I would think.

[dgorila1]

Originally Posted by livinthelife

When you talk to the insurance company does it help your chances (if you have one) if you have a CDL? Most insurance companies would like it I would think.

If you're registering it as a private vehicle then I don't think the CDL will matter. The insurance industry as a whole just has a bad view of skoolies, just like they classify most large breed dogs as "Dangerous Breed" and won't insure your residence if you have certain breeds (Sheppard, Rotti, Akita,Husky, Pit Bull, Dalmation, Mastiff, etc). It's all total bullsh#t based totally on info from bean counters. A few bad owners ruins it for 99.9% of the population!

[livinthelife]

So is there something the skoolie world can do to help. I mean what about working with a insurance company to put on a drivers safety course or some kinda building safety course (the basics).

Im sure there is electricians, plumbers, builders you name it on this forum that could help in that.

Just something they can lean on the skoolie world to help. Like you said there is always a few bad apples that mess it up for a lot of people but it would show we as a group are willing to work with them. I know probably more of a pipe dream but hey

[Dapplecreek]

Originally Posted by livinthelife

So is there something the skoolie world can do to help. I mean what about working with a insurance company to put on a drivers safety course or some kinda building safety course (the basics) Just something they can lean on the skoolie world to help. Like you said there is always a few bad apples that mess it up for a lot of people but it would show we as a group are willing to work with them. I know probably more of a pipe dream but hey

Huh. Considering that we're all over the country it might be better to do it online... but bringing together best practices and YouTube how-to-inspect-your-bus videos and the like? Wonder if any insurance company would be interested? I like the way you're thinking.

[livinthelife]

Originally Posted by Dapplecreek

Huh. Considering that we're all over the country it might be better to do it online... but bringing together best practices and YouTube how-to-inspect-your-bus videos and the like? Wonder if any insurance company would be interested? I like the way you're thinking.

But wouldn't all over the country benefit everyone as well? I see it on here all the time people say come on over I'll help you. If insurance company had a tool box full of tools at there disposal to verify, help, inspect, teach to make sure the bus is in a safe operating condition to there liking to be able to give insurance.

I like the YouTube idea too.

[Scooternj]

Originally Posted by livinthelife

So is there something the skoolie world can do to help. I mean what about working with a insurance company to put on a drivers safety course or some kinda building safety course (the basics).

Don't forget that *every* state has their own insurance regulations, and each state has final say on what insurance providers are allowed to insure state residents within their borders.

[livinthelife]

Oh Man! I just heard the bubble pop. Dang. Wait so that still would work because there are so many skoolies in just about (if not every) state that if its a national company you would still be able to work with them. They would still have that tool box but for each state. Or even if not national and its small company.

I'm just saying that skoolie.net is a large family and keeps getting bigger. I'm on page 3 of what do you do (work) and crap man if a insurance company tapped into the knowledge that is on this forum the 2 could really work together to do good.

Like I said a pipe dream.

[dgorila1]

We need a lobbyist in Washington DC! They would have to live in a skoolie parked at the front of the Capital Building!

[livinthelife]

Originally Posted by dgorila1

We need a lobbyist in Washington DC! They would have to live in a skoolie parked at the front of the Capital Building!

That could work but....
Why would they start listening then as appose to any other time?

I know political but it was just there calling out.

[EastCoastCB]

I think the less attention we draw to ourselves, the better.

[livinthelife]

Originally Posted by EastCoastCB

I think the less attention we draw to ourselves, the better.

I get what your speaking and understand the method. Don't get me wrong either. I don't want a bunch of more rules of what I can and can't build or how. I like my DIY.

But it does seam that more insurance companies or dropping or not excepting skoolies. And that just leaves trying to remodel the plastic RVs. No thanks. Anyway I was just asking. Seamed logical any way

[cadillackid]

part of the problem with insurance are not tyhe members in this forum... fore the most part here you see conversions that are done with safety , reliability, and solidness.. even down to being concerned abouyt tires, battery gassing, tieing down large items, structural integtiy etc...

HOWEVER

there are a lot of people out there in the world doing total half-rigged sort of conversions... cheap bus bald tires, bungie strap a frig in, toss a mattress on the floor and go... nothinbg wrong with being mimialist and doing a cheap conversion.. however a rollover and stuff goes flying causing massive injury to the occupants of the bus... imagine a simple rollover where you have everyone in their seats with seartbelts on and their seats are hugh baclked and bolted in nicely.. the appliances are tied down nicely.. chances are a few scrapes and bruises and everyone walks away from a built-right school bus..

now take the medical bill if you have a frig and stove flying around along with the passengers that were on school bus seats that werent belted or were old low-back... doesnt take much to rack up a few hundred grand in medical bills for the occupants of the bus alone...

let alone a skoolie on bald tires that pops a left front steer, runs left of center and hits a minivan with a family....

school bus accidents like the one in the OP arent what causes us insurance difficulties.. Notice how if we keep our busses as busses that they are quite easy to insure.. its as soon as it becomes a "motorhome" that the insurance woes start...

notice how in Most states very little inspection is done.. sure there arew guidelines stating a coinverted motorhome must contain A/B/C depending on the state but how many are actually looked at? theres no standard set for safety by the title and license bureaus.. the insurance industry way of dealing with this fact is by not taking the risk... even though the peiople here for the most part are extra careful to build solid conversions...

-Christopher

[EastCoastCB]

Originally Posted by livinthelife

I get what your speaking and understand the method. Don't get me wrong either. I don't want a bunch of more rules of what I can and can't build or how. I like my DIY.

But it does seam that more insurance companies or dropping or not excepting skoolies. And that just leaves trying to remodel the plastic RVs. No thanks. Anyway I was just asking. Seamed logical any way

Hell, I couldn't get coverage AT ALL, from ANYWHERE back in 2003. Now I have two companies that will insure me.

[livinthelife]

Originally Posted by cadillackid

part of the problem with insurance are not tyhe members in this forum... fore the most part here you see conversions that are done with safety , reliability, and solidness.. even down to being concerned abouyt tires, battery gassing, tieing down large items, structural integtiy etc...

HOWEVER

there are a lot of people out there in the world doing total half-rigged sort of conversions... cheap bus bald tires, bungie strap a frig in, toss a mattress on the floor and go... nothinbg wrong with being mimialist and doing a cheap conversion.. however a rollover and stuff goes flying causing massive injury to the occupants of the bus... imagine a simple rollover where you have everyone in their seats with seartbelts on and their seats are hugh baclked and bolted in nicely.. the appliances are tied down nicely.. chances are a few scrapes and bruises and everyone walks away from a built-right school bus..

now take the medical bill if you have a frig and stove flying around along with the passengers that were on school bus seats that werent belted or were old low-back... doesnt take much to rack up a few hundred grand in medical bills for the occupants of the bus alone...

let alone a skoolie on bald tires that pops a left front steer, runs left of center and hits a minivan with a family....

school bus accidents like the one in the OP arent what causes us insurance difficulties.. Notice how if we keep our busses as busses that they are quite easy to insure.. its as soon as it becomes a "motorhome" that the insurance woes start...

notice how in Most states very little inspection is done.. sure there arew guidelines stating a coinverted motorhome must contain A/B/C depending on the state but how many are actually looked at? theres no standard set for safety by the title and license bureaus.. the insurance industry way of dealing with this fact is by not taking the risk... even though the peiople here for the most part are extra careful to build solid conversions...

-Christopher

This is why I was asking my question. So many here have the background and skills or experience in doing a conversion and even done more than one bus. Why not work with the insurance and maybe teach or help or however that an insurance company would be happy. I have worked for companies that every so often sent us through a driver safety course or defensive driving. That helped for a discount if you will because everyone is being trained to operat the equipment not just put in the driver seat.

It was just an idea that if there was someone/ group out there that the insurance companies could recognize that they are doing what they can to make things safer maybe they would loosen up a little.

You are always going to have the type that will go 1/2 way but if people have a place or person to go to that an insurance will recognize that could make it harder for the 1/2ers to get insurance. Again I'd rather not have a bunch of rules but at the same time it would feel good knowing the bungy cord fridge or the bald tires might not pass and that's one more unsafe bus off the road.

Anyway just a thought. Good ideas and good points on hear.

By the way CB way would no one touch you in 03?
Or what's the difference from then and now. Just curious.

[jake_blue]

Originally Posted by livinthelife

When you talk to the insurance company does it help your chances (if you have one) if you have a CDL? Most insurance companies would like it I would think.

When I was getting a quote from AIS and my CDL came up they were very positive about it but I don't know that it influenced my rate... It may have influenced the policy acceptance though since they had me underwritten the very next day.

[jake_blue]

Originally Posted by livinthelife

This is why I was asking my question. So many here have the background and skills or experience in doing a conversion and even done more than one bus. Why not work with the insurance and maybe teach or help or however that an insurance company would be happy. I have worked for companies that every so often sent us through a driver safety course or defensive driving. That helped for a discount if you will because everyone is being trained to operat the equipment not just put in the driver seat.

It was just an idea that if there was someone/ group out there that the insurance companies could recognize that they are doing what they can to make things safer maybe they would loosen up a little.

You are always going to have the type that will go 1/2 way but if people have a place or person to go to that an insurance will recognize that could make it harder for the 1/2ers to get insurance. Again I'd rather not have a bunch of rules but at the same time it would feel good knowing the bungy cord fridge or the bald tires might not pass and that's one more unsafe bus off the road.

Anyway just a thought. Good ideas and good points on hear.

By the way CB way would no one touch you in 03?
Or what's the difference from then and now. Just curious.

I wonder if as a community we could develop and maintain a standard protocol for conversions, submit our conversions for quality control inspection, and thus verified possess the legitimacy in the underwriters' perception to qualify for RV insurance rates and acceptance. I don't know how that would work or even if it would work but it's a thought. At least then members of this community could realize an easier path to RV conversion.

[cadillackid]

Insurance is purely numbers, if on average a certain type of policy loses money then it's discontinued... Or the rates get raised so high no one buys it.

It's the same with cars.. Daewoo and daihatsu were deemed uninsurable at some point back when tgey still existed here in the USA. Also banks refused to finance them.

There's a reason why Subaru STI are so very pricey to insure.. And I doubt it's because of people like my buddy who keeps his pristine and drives it responsibly .. He still pays out the ass even though he has not made any insurance claim in 10+ years on any car..

Christopher