Seek and Destroy Bounty, EPA & Navistar's New Deal

[mmoore6856]

urea is also mostly synthetically made now which destroyed my dream of drinking for a living

[Booyah45828]

Jugs are "certified" pure. Barrels and pumps can have water added by shady individuals looking to make a bigger buck. Never underestimate what a gas station owner will try to do to make a buck, especially some of the ones that live on-site if you know what I mean.

FYI DEF doesn't like to be watered down by anything but distilled water. A few times we have added water to tanks to dissolve deposits in them. It's definitely nasty stuff.

And yes, I feel liebherr is on the right track with this emissions stuff. Excessive EGR is what killed cat and navistar on the on-highway business. Hell, it might make the exhaust so clean your 2 cycle detroits can be brought back from the dead and ran in California again. Just make sure your slobber tube buckets are in place

As far as use per mile, it's only really used when making power, so drive cautiously and you'll use very little. A gallon per 100 miles is our average IIRC, which is low compared to what guys see in linehaul, but with bus's being primarily stop and go, it makes sense. It's interesting with us because we can track DEF mpg in the same way you track fuel MPG, and they corroborate pretty closely to one another. The route plays a part, but the driver and their habits are the biggest factor.

[Tin Roadtube Vagrant]

Originally Posted by cadillackid

there was precedent set on gasoline engines for that... and really if you run ceramic top pistons and a heck of a lot of boost in a diesel.. you have high EGT all the time.. possibly High enough to keep the DPF clean without DPF.. i do have to wonder about the environmental impact of DEF.. what is used to make it? the packaging? I know some places have "def pumps" but by far and large I see the empty single use boxed plastic containers sitting next to the diesel pumps wherever i go, having never owned a modern diesel i dont know how much of the stuff you use on a normal basis..

Usually your burning 3-12%, so ratio 3 gallons DEF to 100 gallons fuel. The box wine stuff is most often 4 wheeled vehicles so not really the big waste footprint. Big guys all have bulk systems for cost efficiency. We have a bulk system, not too bad but a pain in the butt sometimes because anything freezable is WI is frozen 7 months of the year.

Moore is right about quality. The bulk transportation causes it to become oxidized and slightly foggy. Towing 18 wheels because of foggy DEF isn't cheap. Depending on machine OEM you can have a host of issues when the DEF tank armature clarity-eye freaks on the fog. We were having fog issues once and I went on a tri-county truck ride collecting DEF from truck stops and stations. I had 4 samples. The 5th sample was from one of my 2.5-gallon AdBlue box kits. The box kit was the only one with true clarity. All bulk DEF had some degree of fogging.

True story.....

Volvo field service told me they had a fairly confused customer dump a gallon of blue windshield wash fluid into a 300 gallon DEF bulk system tote. He said the tote had an "AdBlue" label on it. AdBlue is a European commercial term for DEF. So, dude thought he would "add some blue like the label said". The whole tank had to be disposed of. The DEF armature purity eye on the machine's tanks picked up the slight blue tint and put the trucks/machines into limp mode.

[Tin Roadtube Vagrant]

Originally Posted by mmoore6856

urea is also mostly synthetically made now which destroyed my dream of drinking for a living

Lol, not a bad retirement gig, free beer and a catheter for $10 an hour?

[Tin Roadtube Vagrant]

Originally Posted by Booyah45828

Jugs are "certified" pure. Barrels and pumps can have water added by shady individuals looking to make a bigger buck. Never underestimate what a gas station owner will try to do to make a buck, especially some of the ones that live on-site if you know what I mean.

FYI DEF doesn't like to be watered down by anything but distilled water. A few times we have added water to tanks to dissolve deposits in them. It's definitely nasty stuff.

And yes, I feel liebherr is on the right track with this emissions stuff. Excessive EGR is what killed cat and navistar on the on-highway business. Hell, it might make the exhaust so clean your 2 cycle detroits can be brought back from the dead and ran in California again. Just make sure your slobber tube buckets are in place

As far as use per mile, it's only really used when making power, so drive cautiously and you'll use very little. A gallon per 100 miles is our average IIRC, which is low compared to what guys see in linehaul, but with bus's being primarily stop and go, it makes sense. It's interesting with us because we can track DEF mpg in the same way you track fuel MPG, and they corroborate pretty closely to one another. The route plays a part, but the driver and their habits are the biggest factor.

On "Nasty" comment. Yes, and amen. It destroys whatever it touches that isn't plastic or stainless steel. We have a place to hang the nozzle for our DEF system in my building. DEF was slobbering on the wall and floor. I was PSI washing the area. DEF went down along the wall edge and got under the slab into the ground. It found a water line and ate a hole. Started getting water fountains where we ought not. Had to cut the concrete out and quick-fit the line and leave the Earth removed so if DEF ever got on the wall it couldn't touch the line. A little goes a long way for corrosion. Yet, you can drink it diluted and not die, it's strange, magical, juice.

We keep a spectrum scope for purity checks. So far, we've never had any shenanigans from the vendor.

[cadillackid]

interesting stuff.. I never thought about the stuff freezing... makes sense that go easy in the throttle and you use less.. hence when a traditional diesel isnt blowing black smoke / over-fueling...


as far as box-wine only in 4 wheelers.. there are plenty of 6 wheelers that fill up at the local Sheetz gas stations because their diesel prices tend to be less than the truck stops near me... ive seen them fill their def too.. but at least in the midwest theres a lot of diesel 4 wheelers.. many of them im sure never haul anything more than groceries.. bit the guys like them.. my local RAM dealer was pushing them hard when they had the 3.0 eco-diesel.. theres a bunch of them around my area..


in volume im sure its a drop in the bucket compared to the amount of diesel / DEF that commercial trucking industry uses but not insignificant..


I do have to wonder though.. who thought up the fact that wienering-it-out into the exhaust would make it burn cleaner...

[nikitis]

Originally Posted by cadillackid

interesting stuff.. I never thought about the stuff freezing... makes sense that go easy in the throttle and you use less.. hence when a traditional diesel isnt blowing black smoke / over-fueling...


as far as box-wine only in 4 wheelers.. there are plenty of 6 wheelers that fill up at the local Sheetz gas stations because their diesel prices tend to be less than the truck stops near me... ive seen them fill their def too.. but at least in the midwest theres a lot of diesel 4 wheelers.. many of them im sure never haul anything more than groceries.. bit the guys like them.. my local RAM dealer was pushing them hard when they had the 3.0 eco-diesel.. theres a bunch of them around my area..


in volume im sure its a drop in the bucket compared to the amount of diesel / DEF that commercial trucking industry uses but not insignificant..







I do have to wonder though.. who thought up the fact that wienering-it-out into the exhaust would make it burn cleaner...

Well like I said, it's ultimately a Urine product. The elites get a kick out of making slaves pay for their own piss, even if it's synthetic piss, it still gives them jollies. I'd just rather go back to the good ole days and only buy diesel, or grow my own bio-diesel to operate. Imagine the power people could have if they grew their own diesel fuel.

[Tin Roadtube Vagrant]

This is my project for today. Machine has over 20K hours operating time, and the interior of the exhaust stack is still chromed. These exhaust systems are a complete money pit and PITA, but hats off, I never thought I'd see diesel burn this clean in my lifetime. This isn't even a clean model, it's an interim tier 4, pre DEF.

I used to work all day in a shop that was bar room blue with smoke for 8 hours a day. Now we don't even drop an exhaust tube on when we run for tune ups.

It's so clean there is no reason to further research to tier 5. I can say with good certainty the push is political. An attempt to eliminate fossil fuels altogether.